quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

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Only Republicans seem to see a virtue in the ignorance of the ignorant.

I can understand one's cynism with professional politicians but the alternative doesn't have to be someone who appears to wallow in her own ignorance.

I don't mean to side track this thread, but, what is Obama being sold as again?  And who are his more die hard supporters?

I can accept Obama has little experience, as has Palin, its the ignorance factor where the difference is and Palin is leading the way in that and the evidence comes out of her own mouth. One doesn't need experience to have knowledge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

Only Republicans seem to see a virtue in the ignorance of the ignorant.

I can understand one's cynism with professional politicians but the alternative doesn't have to be someone who appears to wallow in her own ignorance.

I don't mean to side track this thread, but, what is Obama being sold as again?  And who are his more die hard supporters?

I can accept Obama has little experience, as has Palin, its the ignorance factor where the difference is and Palin is leading the way in that and the evidence comes out of her own mouth. One doesn't need experience to have knowledge.

So ignoring the mistakes, lies, and obvious errors that come out of Obama's mouth, some how make the voters supporting him, is not ignorance?

There is plenty of evidence of my claim above.  I would even suggest that is part of where this debate has gotten really off track, and is going to bite many in the ass.  They are attempting to compare Obama to Palin, which does 2 things.  First it brings him down to her level (she is running as the Vice President), second it further highlights his own shortcomings when compared to the top of the other ticket.

Just an observation.

quote:

Political incompetence is not ignorance, though it doesn't bode well for anyone seeking office I admit. Palin just seems to glory in her own ignorance from what I've seen of her, that in itself isn't frightening, the frightening thing is that so many people are willing to vote for such ignorance.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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Political incompetence is not ignorance, though it doesn't bode well for anyone seeking office I admit. Palin just seems to glory in her own ignorance from what I've seen of her, that in itself isn't frightening, the frightening thing is that so many people are willing to vote for such ignorance.

As I said that frightening part is on both sides of the aisle.  I simply point to the threads where we have attempted to get away from the mudslinging and discuss issues...  "He's not Bush" being the mantra when asked about specifics of issues or proposals...  The smoke and mirrors are beginning to fade, the glamour is wearing off, and even some staunch Dems are asking themselves "What the hell did we do? At least we have Hillary to fall back on in 4 years."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13357.html

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

Political incompetence is not ignorance, though it doesn't bode well for anyone seeking office I admit. Palin just seems to glory in her own ignorance from what I've seen of her, that in itself isn't frightening, the frightening thing is that so many people are willing to vote for such ignorance.

As I said that frightening part is on both sides of the aisle.  I simply point to the threads where we have attempted to get away from the mudslinging and discuss issues...  "He's not Bush" being the mantra when asked about specifics of issues or proposals...  The smoke and mirrors are beginning to fade, the glamour is wearing off, and even some staunch Dems are asking themselves "What the hell did we do? At least we have Hillary to fall back on in 4 years."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13357.html

You are quite right...the dems are quite a bit more discerning. Now the repubs they are a collective piece of work. Pick someone please...Attila the Hun, Genghas Khan. Anybody who will carry the profit making torch.

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Summary: During the ABC News-Facebook Democratic debate, ABC News' Charlie Gibson said that Sen. Barack Obama's assertion that, as president, he would "press them [the Pakistani government] to do more to take on Al Qaeda in their territory," and that "if they could not or would not do so, and we had actionable intelligence, then I would strike," is "essentially the Bush doctrine: We can attack if we want to, no matter the sovereignty of the Pakistanis." But by asserting that Obama's policy on Pakistan is "essentially the Bush doctrine," Gibson was claiming that there is in fact a clear Bush doctrine on the question of whether the U.S. would strike Al Qaeda in Pakistan regardless of the sovereignty of Pakistan. Bush and administration officials have in fact made inconsistent statements on this issue.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

So ignoring the mistakes, lies, and obvious errors that come out of Obama's mouth, some how make the voters supporting him, is not ignorance?

There is plenty of evidence of my claim above.  I would even suggest that is part of where this debate has gotten really off track, and is going to bite many in the ass.  They are attempting to compare Obama to Palin, which does 2 things.  First it brings him down to her level (she is running as the Vice President), second it further highlights his own shortcomings when compared to the top of the other ticket.

Just an observation.

So let's compare apples to apples.  Do I really need to remind you of all the mistakes, errors, and flip-flops on issue positions that have come out of McCain's mouth?

(in reply to Thadius)

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ORIGINAL: Thadius


After doing a bit of research, guess what I came across.  The same folks that are attacking Palin for "not understanding the Bush Doctrine" were defending another candidate when the same issue came up during the debates....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801080001

quote:

 

Summary: During the ABC News-Facebook Democratic debate, ABC News' Charlie Gibson said that Sen. Barack Obama's assertion that, as president, he would "press them [the Pakistani government] to do more to take on Al Qaeda in their territory," and that "if they could not or would not do so, and we had actionable intelligence, then I would strike," is "essentially the Bush doctrine: We can attack if we want to, no matter the sovereignty of the Pakistanis." But by asserting that Obama's policy on Pakistan is "essentially the Bush doctrine," Gibson was claiming that there is in fact a clear Bush doctrine on the question of whether the U.S. would strike Al Qaeda in Pakistan regardless of the sovereignty of Pakistan. Bush and administration officials have in fact made inconsistent statements on this issue.

I think the difference here is where we can actually substantiate that a country is harboring factions that attacked us.
There has been no major outcry over our invasion of Afghanistan because it was clear they offered support and sanctuary to those who attacked us.  

On that basis, if Pakistan is giving sanctuary to Bin-Laden or other Al-Quaeda members then we have every right to go after them.

The difference being those who have directly attacked us and need to be held accountable as opposed to those that that may pose a threat, as proposed by Bush and acted on in Iraq.    



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/16/2008 4:35:17 PM >

(in reply to Thadius)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Obama knows how to weather a storm. Who know that the RNC would switch McCain's slogan from "experience" to "change?"

Change what? According to the speakers, "change a liberal WASH DC."

The only problem with that is that the conservatives have been in power.

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Can you show me which Conservatives have been in power?

Please, because I'm dying to know. I haven't seen anything but drunken sailors.

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ORIGINAL: hoodie

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Obama knows how to weather a storm. Who know that the RNC would switch McCain's slogan from "experience" to "change?"

Change what? According to the speakers, "change a liberal WASH DC."

The only problem with that is that the conservatives have been in power.

Can you show me which Conservatives have been in power?

Please, because I'm dying to know.  I haven't seen anything but drunken sailors.

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ORIGINAL: Thadius

The important part of that quote was how the left was defending Obama from Gibson's vision of what the Bush Doctrine was.  Stating that there is no clear cut definition of what that doctrine consists of.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

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Can you show me which Conservatives have been in power?

Please, because I'm dying to know. I haven't seen anything but drunken sailors.

Do you wish me to call them Republicans instead?