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RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 11:12:17 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Is this the end of The Age of Deregulation? Thirty years or so after it started, this is what we're left with? Even the most pro-capitalist politicians are turning their coats and starting to make noises about 'cleaning up Wall Street', how 'the American taxpayer won't pick up the bill this time, and that they're going to 'get rid of golden parachutes'. It's interesting how the fiercest marketeers are turning positively socialistic.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 11:34:53 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Did you catch how many people are employed by these two firms?  Even the Mayor of NYC spent the weekend negotiating and working on this situation. (emphasis mine in text below from OP)

"What will happen to Merrill’s 60,000 employees or Lehman’s 25,000 employees remains unclear. Worried about the unfolding crisis and its potential impact on New York City’s economy, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg canceled a trip to California to meet with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Instead, aides said, Mr. Bloomberg spent much of the weekend working the phones, talking to federal officials and bank executives in an effort to gauge the severity of the crisis."

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 11:39:55 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		KatyLied,

I was half listening to a report on this at breakfast, and according to one of the "experts" the accounts with these companies are still safe, and will still be available via AmeriBank. FDIC insurance rules apply.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 11:46:13 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Did you catch how many people are employed by these two firms?  Even the Mayor of NYC spent the weekend negotiating and working on this situation. (emphasis mine in text below from OP)

"What will happen to Merrill’s 60,000 employees or Lehman’s 25,000 employees remains unclear. Worried about the unfolding crisis and its potential impact on New York City’s economy, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg canceled a trip to California to meet with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Instead, aides said, Mr. Bloomberg spent much of the weekend working the phones, talking to federal officials and bank executives in an effort to gauge the severity of the crisis."

It's not just those tens of thousands of employees. I work for a software development company in chicago and much of our work comes from the financial sector. Unless something dramatic happens we won't be laying anyone off but we also aren't going to replace anyone who leaves and no new hiring is happening until business picks up.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 11:57:53 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		This is a very serious economic situation, Dom Ken.  And the impact will be far reaching.  Thank you for the insider perspective.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 12:18:58 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		FR

....i don't see why Americans are so worried. After all, according to CL, Bush has been great for the US economy. He can't possibly be wrong can he? Banks going bust at this rate is surely a normal thing.........because if it isn't it points to a fundamental problem with the US banking system.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 12:24:06 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....i don't see why Americans are so worried. After all, according to CL, Bush has been great for the US economy. He can't possibly be wrong can he? Banks going bust at this rate is surely a normal thing.........because if it isn't it points to a fundamental problem with the US banking system.


the bank down the street has had 4 names in 3 years.    So-  merger and consolidation will occur.


the problem is junk bonds were rated AAA.   and sold as such.

so now they turn out to have no value.

So whom "managed" all this?   Could in be John and Jane Doe?   Could it be Wall Street?

SOMEONE, mislabled these "investments"....

so now they deal with the loss.... boo hoo.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 12:42:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....i don't see why Americans are so worried. After all, according to CL, Bush has been great for the US economy. He can't possibly be wrong can he? Banks going bust at this rate is surely a normal thing.........because if it isn't it points to a fundamental problem with the US banking system.


Phil, yeah, GREED!
I've been saying this all along.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 12:43:13 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

 impact on New York City’s economy, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg canceled a trip to California to meet with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Instead, aides said, Mr. Bloomberg spent much of the weekend working the phones, talking to federal officials and bank executives in an effort to gauge the severity of the crisis."



I know. You'd think there was something important going on, like a war or something  .

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 4:05:57 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

What should people do who have their money at Merrill Lynch (now Bank of America)?  Should they sit tight or move their investments to another place?


Bank of America is the "safest" place for your money really, as their ties to the fed virtually insure them a last to fail status. They have acquired Countrywide, and Merrill, so the government will do whatever they can to keep them healthy. Bank of America also sits on the New York Federal Reserve, which is the all powerful body that produces this messes, by artificially overextending credit to create the booms, and then clean up the carcasses during the bust. They are insiders making the policy, setting the rules, and they know before anyone else, when those rules will be reversed. It's not very hard to see why they get federal backing for countrywide, and they aren't to worried about going broke either, as the federal reserve will pump them full of inflationary dollars if required to keep them afloat.

This is what happens when you get socialist concepts mixed in with capitalism. I agree with some around in that we must select what type of country we want to be. Do we want to be socialists, or capitalist. The nearest approximation of each in this economy have both been horrible failures. Federal Reserve(socialist), Fannie, Freddie(quasi,socialist/capitalist), LEH(capitalist, though largely influenced by the socialist Federal Reserve).

Anyway, its a clusterfuck the capitalist aspects of our economy try to leech of the socialist aspects, and the socialist aspects try to hand pick the capitalist winners and losers by select who will or will not be supported with taxpayer money. It's a show nothing more.

My vote is the Federal Reserve needs to go, it is absolutely the worst part of this countries economy, literally, I could run it better. Why? Because they aren't running for the common mans interest they are a tool to preserve the big Money Trust, that's it.

Personally, I'm happy every time one of these collapse. If you notice they'd all die given a natural course of events, seeing they are merely being saved by Federal Reserve cash(Your cash), or the implied guarantee to your cash, that implies they don't have a functional business model and well should die. It's socialism that is trying to rescue corrupt businesses from failure thus why I can't understand why some think this is a call to socialism.


Anyway, I'm happy LEH died, old money, needs to die off from time to time, its natural. I'm just saddened that the biggest crooks will be allowed to live.

Yeah, I understand that would throw us into a temporary depression, so what. That needs to occur from time to time as well, like a forest fire burning off all the dead wood adds fertilizer for the next growth cycle, and gives new opportunity as the old vested power structure is destroyed.

Anyway, this is going to be used as an excuse to either go more socialist, or shrug off our socialist experimentation. The next 4 years will be interesting in that regard. Personally I'll be happy with a more clearly defined system either way, as this crap is just stupid.


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 4:51:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		A lot of this started with the "deregulation" movement in the Carter Admin in 1978.
Look at the Airlines, it used to be a pleasure to fly and the govt. "deregulated" them!
As for financial markets they need to be "regulated" more highly than any other institutions.
If "regulation" was so bad then why are so many bad things happening under "de-regulation" that didn't happen under "regulation?"
It's not the janitor or stock clerk who will clean you out it's the Ceo, Cfo, Coo who'll really put the boots to you.
The higher they are on the totem pole the more they need watching!
McCain would do well to put Mitt Romney in charge of this type of stuff.
He's a no nonsense kind of person who'll get results.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 4:53:33 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Anyway, I'm happy LEH died, old money, needs to die off from time to time, its natural. I'm just saddened that the biggest crooks will be allowed to live.


Now that's the one thing you *can* bank on!

Weird how all those billions of dollars just vanish into thin air, ain't it? *poof* Like they never even existed in the first place...

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 6:44:03 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The Monday morning news on Lehman Bros and Merrill Lynch.  "2 Wall St. Bank Falter; Markets Shaken" By Andrew Ross SorkinPublished: September 14, 2008  
This article was reported by Jenny Anderson, Eric Dash and Andrew Ross Sorkin and was written by Mr. Sorkin.
 "In one of the most dramatic days in Wall Street’s history, Merrill Lynch agreed to sell itself on Sunday to Bank of America for roughly $50 billion to avert a deepening financial crisis, while another prominent securities firm, Lehman Brothers, filed for bankruptcy protection and hurtled toward liquidation after it failed to find a buyer.
 
The humbling moves, which reshape the landscape of American finance, mark the latest chapter in a tumultuous year in which once-proud financial institutions have been brought to their knees as a result of hundreds of billions of dollars in losses because of bad mortgage finance and real estate investments.
 
But even as the fates of Lehman and Merrill hung in the balance, another crisis loomed as the insurance giant American International Group appeared to teeter. Staggered by losses stemming from the credit crisis, A.I.G. sought a $40 billion lifeline from the Federal Reserve, without which the company may have only days to survive.
 
The stunning series of events culminated a weekend of frantic around-the-clock negotiations, as Wall Street bankers huddled in meetings at the behest of Bush administration officials to try to avoid a downward spiral in the markets stemming from a crisis of confidence."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/business/15lehman.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1221483649-VX3V8tvRhDlCjt4EzVNTrg


("Retirement" is so '80's)

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 6:48:04 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I think the MBA is more about broadening your employment options than it is about being a stockbroker.




Katy, that may or may not be so but would you expect to see a car salesman with an M.B.A.?
I don't think I'd want to do business with a brokerage firm that had M.B.A.s as stockbrokers! That's just bad management on their part!
Kind of like hiring a bio-chemist to drive a cab.
Or an electrical engineer to drive a truck.


Popeye, within the next 7 months, you're going to see quite a few MBA's selling cars (and more than a few Bio Chemists driving cabs....and at least multiple Engineers driving trucks).

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 6:56:52 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Did you catch how many people are employed by these two firms?  Even the Mayor of NYC spent the weekend negotiating and working on this situation. (emphasis mine in text below from OP)

"What will happen to Merrill’s 60,000 employees or Lehman’s 25,000 employees remains unclear. Worried about the unfolding crisis and its potential impact on New York City’s economy, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg canceled a trip to California to meet with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Instead, aides said, Mr. Bloomberg spent much of the weekend working the phones, talking to federal officials and bank executives in an effort to gauge the severity of the crisis."


It's fairly simple mathematics;

About 60% will be hired...most at lesser wages (those jobs, largely actually produced something...and they will be needed again), 40% were ancillary, and won't find jobs.

This is not the end of the world, nor is it the beginning of the end.  It is however, a tipping point, and one that presupposes what many of the smart folks already knew....America has been riding on the backs of the rest of the world for a very long time.  Debate it all you want...and then come back in 20 years and read the tea leaves.

We haven't educated ourselves, yet we've wanted to reap all that the world sows.  It's no different (however, now on a global scale) than what the unions did in the 40's here in our country.

They simply said "the corporations are getting fat on our backs (and they were), and we want our slice of the pie".

Today, the world is the union, and the US is the fat corporation.

It's fairly simple math.



(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 6:59:25 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

....i don't see why Americans are so worried. After all, according to CL, Bush has been great for the US economy. He can't possibly be wrong can he? Banks going bust at this rate is surely a normal thing.........because if it isn't it points to a fundamental problem with the US banking system.


Phil, yeah, GREED!
I've been saying this all along.


Agreed Popeye, but...if you own any amounts in Vanguard or other mutual funds....you were part of the process....you were part of the vulture culture.

It isn't "them".  It's "us".

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 7:02:22 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Anyway, I'm happy LEH died, old money, needs to die off from time to time, its natural. I'm just saddened that the biggest crooks will be allowed to live.


Now that's the one thing you *can* bank on!

Weird how all those billions of dollars just vanish into thin air, ain't it? *poof* Like they never even existed in the first place...



It is interesting...but do you know why?

(Because they never existed in the first place).

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 7:05:03 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		why are they called junk bonds and stock brokers
get the drift

also too many golden parachutes and they should be eliminated right here and now

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 7:06:59 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Anyway, I'm happy LEH died, old money, needs to die off from time to time, its natural. I'm just saddened that the biggest crooks will be allowed to live. 
quote:



Not as happy as the folks at Goldman Sachs...:)

Jeff

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Latest on Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers - 9/15/2008 7:08:17 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Damn...... new poster.... sorry........

Jeff



< Message edited by Jeffff -- 9/15/2008 7:09:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 40
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