RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (Full Version)

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Thadius -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 10:07:12 AM)

Guess the e-mails released don't shed enough light for some...

quote:

 

Among the e-mails released was one of farewell written by the public safety commissioner himself, Walt Monegan, when he was fired in July. In it, he suggested the governor had reason to believe she had lost his support, and urged his former colleagues to communicate better with her.

"For anyone to lead effectively they must have the support of their team, and I had waited too long outside her door for her to believe that I supported her," he wrote. "Please, choose a different path."

The e-mails made clear that some Palin staffers believed Monegan and the Department of Public Safety worked outside normal channels. One was written in May by Randy Ruaro, then a special assistant to Palin, to the governor's budget director, and concerned efforts to pay for and build a crime lab.

"I FEEL YOUR PAIN! DPS is constantly going off the reservation," he wrote.

In February, Monegan signed a public letter of support for a $3.6 million project designed to keep troubled teens off the street in Anchorage - even though the governor had vetoed the project last year and hadn't included money for it in her budget this year.

"I am stunned and amazed - do you know anything about this?" budget director Karen Rehfeld wrote to two other high-level staffers when she learned of the letter.

"Think about that: one of the governor's own cabinet members publicly contradicting her veto decision," Stapleton said.

Monegan acknowledged he shouldn't have signed the letter, because it put the governor in the awkward position of defending her veto decision. But he said he thought of the letter as simply making another run at getting funding for a worthy project.

The last straw, the McCain campaign said, was in July, when Monegan planned to travel to Washington to seek federal money for a plan to assign troopers, judges and prosecutors who could exclusively handle sexual assault cases - one of the state's most intractable crime problems.

In a July 7 e-mail, John Katz, the governor's special counsel, noted two problems with the trip: The governor hadn't agreed the money should be sought, and the request was "out of sequence with our other appropriations requests and could put a strain on the evolving relationship between the Governor and Sen. (Ted) Stevens."

Four days later, Monegan was fired. He said he had kept others in the administration fully apprised of his plans to go to Washington.


More news will be breaking I am sure.




Mercnbeth -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 10:08:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
However I'll challenge this statement you made; "I happen to believe in applying the laws to everyone." Support AA/eeo? Think that more tax should be paid by some and not others?

Those are the laws aren't they? I am in a pretty high tax bracket and make no serious effort to reduce my taxes but since I make more than a lot of people I don't really have an issue with paying more since I can afford it and still live quite comfortably.
Why make any effort if you belief that economic redistribution is a sound government policy?

So your position is in favor of more equal status be given for some people for reasons you personally deem important allow you to rationalize and justify injustice. Okay - just want to benchmark that. Does everyone get to deem a situation where they can apply the same personal belief to any specific situation, or only you?

For instance, if in California the pending vote to define marriage exclusive to the union of a man/woman outlawed same gender marriage you would stand behind that law similarly; "It is the law"?  

However, noting that a yes/no wasn't provided; your ability to not answer questions directly qualifies you to run in this election.




Owner59 -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 10:32:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Come on Merc, you know this is about more than just whether the trooper did something stupid. Palin's staffer attempted to coerce a career civil servant to make a firing decision without fairly examining the case. That this was a political intrusion into law enforcement makes it even more troubling.

The investigation is now into whether the fired staffer acted with or without the governor's knowledge and approval. If Palin did approve of this action before hand it is definitely a violation of ethics laws she has used against others previously. Now you may not believe what is good for the gander is good for the goose but I happen to believe in applying the laws to everyone.

Was my representation of the actual occurrence wrong, or the reference cited inaccurate? This was what happened. You support that State Trooper still being on the job? Are you comfortable with him being on the streets while a member of your family is driving?

Or, since the issue of experience is major, is this a matter of experience? Now that he's done it once he knows better not to do it again?

Well, regardless, her ticket is not getting my vote.

However I'll challenge this statement you made; "I happen to believe in applying the laws to everyone." Support AA/eeo? Think that more tax should be paid by some and not others?




I heard the tasering happened because the relative wanted to know what is was like,after seeing the Youtube versions of taserings we all know of.Stupid yes.Dangerous yes.Was it in anger or in line of duty,no.

It was a stupid stunt, between family members.Not a crime or something vicious.

Does the incident absolve Palin from the official investigation into her firing of some other guy(not involved in the tasering)?

No.

She got her hubby,her associates and staff,to simultaneously make dozens of complaints against the bro/in-law.Frivolous complaints,to the point where she was told by a judge to stop it.

We know these things happened,and happened before the VP pick.

She has to answer for this before the election,or the worst can be assumed.





bipolarber -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 11:13:31 AM)

...and of course, the big worry is that it's an ex brother in law today... and then CIA operatives who's husbands call you a liar about fake intel, tomorrow. (Or the equivilent.) If this bears out, then obviously she's the type who keeps enemies lists. We've already heard the joke about if you want to see photos of who her cabinet was as Governor, you only need to look in her high school yearbook. Her competence, and the quality of choices, as a leader are at issue here.

True, being VP, as one Washington critic once famously said, "is about as satisfying as a bucket of warm piss."

But we've already had one lying, power crazed nixoinian type in the office for the last 8 years... we DON'T need to follow him with a "Soccer Mom From Hell."





philosophy -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 11:19:10 AM)

...don't think of this as a hijack, think of it as more of an earmark......

The overall issue here is transparency. Palin is running on an agenda that suggests she wants more accountability in the White House. Therefore, on the specific issue of this investigation she does come across as somewhat hypocritical.
i also found this line in Thadius' quote interesting...
"The last straw, the McCain campaign said, was in July, when Monegan planned to travel to Washington to seek federal money for a plan to assign troopers, judges and prosecutors who could exclusively handle sexual assault cases - one of the state's most intractable crime problems." (my italics)
Now, in order to avoid resurrecting a dead thread let me earmark this issue onto the OP. We have heard about this issue where rape victims were allegedly being made to pay for the forensic rape kits themselves. A major plank of the argument of those who defended her was that there was apparently few rapes in Alaska. Here we have a statement from the McCain camp that flatly denies that. Well, i suppose some will say that sexual assault isnt quite the same thing as rape......but thats just splitting hairs. Rape kits, despite the name, would also be employed in sexual assault cases.
It all comes back to transparency. What did Palin know, do or cause to have done at several points in her career. The US public has a right to know the truth of these issues. Just as the US public has the right to know what happens in the White House. Palin attempting to avoid certain investigations or issues is not a good sign.




slvemike4u -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 11:20:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Come on Merc, you know this is about more than just whether the trooper did something stupid. Palin's staffer attempted to coerce a career civil servant to make a firing decision without fairly examining the case. That this was a political intrusion into law enforcement makes it even more troubling.

The investigation is now into whether the fired staffer acted with or without the governor's knowledge and approval. If Palin did approve of this action before hand it is definitely a violation of ethics laws she has used against others previously. Now you may not believe what is good for the gander is good for the goose but I happen to believe in applying the laws to everyone.

Was my representation of the actual occurrence wrong, or the reference cited inaccurate? This was what happened. You support that State Trooper still being on the job? Are you comfortable with him being on the streets while a member of your family is driving?

Or, since the issue of experience is major, is this a matter of experience? Now that he's done it once he knows better not to do it again?

Well, regardless, her ticket is not getting my vote.

However I'll challenge this statement you made; "I happen to believe in applying the laws to everyone." Support AA/eeo? Think that more tax should be paid by some and not others?




I heard the tasering happened because the relative wanted to know what is was like,after seeing the Youtube versions of taserings we all know of.Stupid yes.Dangerous yes.Was it in anger or in line of duty,no.

It was a stupid stunt, between family members.Not a crime or something vicious.

Does the incident absolve Palin from the official investigation into her firing of some other guy(not involved in the tasering)?

No.

She got her hubby,her associates and staff,to simultaneously make dozens of complaints against the bro/in-law.Frivolous complaints,to the point where she was told by a judge to stop it.

We know these things happened,and happened before the VP pick.

She has to answer for this before the election,or the worst can be assumed.


More importantly McCain has to answer for selecting her as his running mate.The lack of judgement shown here is, in and of itself ,a disqualifier.Getting all twisted over this woman misses the point that McCain ,in a cynical and pragmatic attempt to secure the conservative base of the Republican Party, would place this woman in a position to be a heart beat away.....Country First my ass!!!!




cloudboy -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 12:36:43 PM)

Why not reduce your tax rate now, have the treasury borrow the money from China, and pass the loan obligations onto your children who can't vote against such a policy?

You might even be able to have your government conduct two wars while reaping nothing but consumer benefits for yourself.




Thadius -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 12:47:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Why not reduce your tax rate now, have the treasury borrow the money from China, and pass the loan obligations onto your children who can't vote against such a policy?

You might even be able to have your government conduct two wars while reaping nothing but consumer benefits for yourself.


I will pass your concerns and suggestions on to my congressional representation. [8|]




LaTigresse -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 12:48:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Why not reduce your tax rate now, have the treasury borrow the money from China, and pass the loan obligations onto your children who can't vote against such a policy?

You might even be able to have your government conduct two wars while reaping nothing but consumer benefits for yourself.


That is sooooooooo last year.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:24:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


They claim democrats have taken a hold of the investigation and that the case is tainted w/ politics.

There are three republicans to the two dems on the investigating panel,but now the case is tainted.[8|]So much for candor.[:'(]  (HUH!!!!!?????)

How does that assertion(true or false),get her off the hook in the investigation?

It doesn`t.  (HUH!!!!!?????)

You don`t get to pick and choose on this thing.Her husband has been subpoenaed.Will he scoff at the law?

(HUH!!!!!?????)

They sold her on the story that she was cooperating and being open about the case.I don`t think that was ever true,but now it`s official.

(HUH!!!!!?????)

The bro/in-law`s boss,who was fired,will be on MSNBC tonight.

(HUH!!!!!?????)

Troopergate just became an issue.No more hiding behind the "I`m a reformer" banner.

(HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!!!!!?????)




farglebargle -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:40:20 PM)

quote:

and could put a strain on the evolving relationship between the Governor and Sen. (Ted) Stevens."


WHOA.




bestbabync -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:44:31 PM)

i will tell you firsthand that the use of a taser on anyone has life threatening risk!  any law enforcement officer certified to carry a taser is trained to never use the weapon in fun or in demonstrations.  the taser is considered the level of force to be used just before lethal force.
therefore the trooper's use of the taser on the 10 year old boy was at the very least reason for termination and he may possibly face criminal & civil action by the boys family.  




servantforuse -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:46:13 PM)

Useing a tazor isn't the only thing this trooper did. He threatened to kill someone, his father in law I believe, and was caught drinking a six pack in his squad car..Good grief, he deserved to be fired.




slvemike4u -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

i will tell you firsthand that the use of a taser on anyone has life threatening risk!  any law enforcement officer certified to carry a taser is trained to never use the weapon in fun or in demonstrations.  the taser is considered the level of force to be used just before lethal force.
therefore the trooper's use of the taser on the 10 year old boy was at the very least reason for termination and he may possibly face criminal & civil action by the boys family.  
So the ex brother-in-law's an asshole.Personally I could give two shits about this man...he is not running for the VP slot she is...and it is her misuse of authority that is in question here...not whether or not this man is an asshole...personally I am ready to concede that point..




bestbabync -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 6:55:18 PM)

for sure he is an asshole!  he is a dumbass too, because no intelligent person would use a taser on the governor's nephew or threaten to kill the governor's father & son!

the governor had every right to protect her family AND the citizens of Alaska that this dumbass asshole may harm while on the job.  if she did nothing and he hurt an innocent person, she would be held responsible for doing nothing. 




servantforuse -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 7:01:28 PM)

If he was such an upstanding officer of the law, maybe the union he belonged to should get his job back for him..




Owner59 -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 7:18:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If he was such an upstanding officer of the law, maybe the union he belonged to should get his job back for him..




My understanding is the union did go to bat for him and he`s still on the job.

If there was sufficient reason,standard operating procedure would have had him removed,by the book.

He survived the trouble and thought he could and wanted to move on.

Till his ex-sister in-law got plucked out of the wilderness and into a presidential race,he did.

Now he`s got all this to deal with,on top of his divorce.

There`s many ways to skin a cat.

What the Palins did,what we know they did was "a" way,perhaps but it was the wrong way.

Years before she was governor,a judge told her and her family to stop harassing the trooper,that it was hurting their children.

They never stopped.They went to far.

How can anyone supporting Palin,excuse her for firing someone else,like the trooper`s boss?

How does that add up?

Make that make sense.




Thadius -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 7:54:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

i will tell you firsthand that the use of a taser on anyone has life threatening risk!  any law enforcement officer certified to carry a taser is trained to never use the weapon in fun or in demonstrations.  the taser is considered the level of force to be used just before lethal force.
therefore the trooper's use of the taser on the 10 year old boy was at the very least reason for termination and he may possibly face criminal & civil action by the boys family.  
So the ex brother-in-law's an asshole.Personally I could give two shits about this man...he is not running for the VP slot she is...and it is her misuse of authority that is in question here...not whether or not this man is an asshole...personally I am ready to concede that point..


You mean alleged misuse of authority. [;)]




subeos -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 7:58:00 PM)

quote:

Useing a tazor isn't the only thing this trooper did. He threatened to kill someone, his father in law I believe, and was caught drinking a six pack in his squad car..Good grief, he deserved to be fired.


Sounds like the police here! I don't like it one bit!

slave eos





slvemike4u -> RE: It`s Official...Palin will NOT cooperate w/ Troopergate investigator. (9/16/2008 8:35:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

for sure he is an asshole!  he is a dumbass too, because no intelligent person would use a taser on the governor's nephew or threaten to kill the governor's father & son!

the governor had every right to protect her family AND the citizens of Alaska that this dumbass asshole may harm while on the job.  if she did nothing and he hurt an innocent person, she would be held responsible for doing nothing. 
There is a process in place for terminating this troopers employment,as Gov. if she tried to unduly influence or exerted pressure to subvert or bypass that process that is by definition Abuse of power.Whether or not the trooper in question is an asshole is irrelevant..hence the investigation!Of course the fact that her ex brother in law was involved in a custody batte with Palin's sister was all the more reason for her to keep her distance.....The appearence of impropriety and all!!!




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