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If you give up on "converting" a vanilla partner - 9/18/2008 7:01:50 PM

OneMoreWaste

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

to be your Dominant...

do you still have to do all the housework?

You know, one of the most common pieces of advice for encouraging a vanilla long-term partner to be Dominant is to be of service for them, and find things that you can do to make His/Her life easier.

However, if you determine that it's a total lost cause *after* you've set a precedent of Him/Her never having to lift a finger, how do you ease them back in to the real world?

Nobody ever has an exit plan

Post #: 1

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 7:08:31 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Open and honest communication? Tell them that the reason you've been doing everything was in the hopes he/she might extrapolate from that but since they haven't, and your needs aren't being met, you don't have the energy to do everything.

If they choose an equal power relationship, then they get equal amounts of responsibility, not all the rights and none of the responsibility.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)

Post #: 2

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 8:25:42 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

So you got into a relationship hoping you could change him. Now he isn't changed and you want him to change again?

You get what you choose- if you want a partner who will be something, choose the partner who is that thing, or accept who they are now.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 3

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 8:54:52 PM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline

It's really simple. Talk with him about this and be honest.

Where the Hell did you come up with the notion that DOMs should not do anything around a household is a bit of a stereotype. Seems like you are at odds over your own wants and desires here.

You can hold somebody accountable for unspoken wants, wishes or desires. Also, you can't force people to be what they are not just to please your world.

Think you need to do a little soul searching and thinking about your own actions, sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)

Post #: 4

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 9:07:56 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

Besides, you can't "convert" someone into being a dominant personality. They either are or aren't. End of story.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)

Post #: 5

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 9:16:55 PM

LadyLupineNYC

Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Besides, you can't "convert" someone into being a dominant personality. They either are or aren't. End of story.

Amen!

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 6

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 9:44:05 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Besides, you can't "convert" someone into being a dominant personality. They either are or aren't. End of story.

But what you CAN do is convert a vanilla partner who is comfortable with dominance in general into being a "dom".

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 7

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 9:54:45 PM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

to be your Dominant...

do you still have to do all the housework?

You know, one of the most common pieces of advice for encouraging a vanilla long-term partner to be Dominant is to be of service for them, and find things that you can do to make His/Her life easier.

However, if you determine that it's a total lost cause *after* you've set a precedent of Him/Her never having to lift a finger, how do you ease them back in to the real world?

Nobody ever has an exit plan

What?

You are married (I'm guessing) to someone you hoped to change (Fail on you for marrying them). You have now figured out they don't have any interest in being dominant. (Well, should have figured that out first) Now, you don't want to do any of the housework, and want to slack off.

It doesn't work that way. I 'converted' my nilla partner, but to tell the truth, he wasn't reluctant in the first place. He is quite comfortable with the idea of being dominant, he just doesn't have any interest in doing it by the books. Fine with me! I encouraged him, I didn't tazer him into it.

Now, if I had tried to convert an ex of mine, who was all about the missionary, very reluctant to get rough, and really just a genuinely sweet guy, it wouldn't have worked at all- and if I had married him, I would be the one to blame.

_____________________________

HBIC

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)

Post #: 8

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/18/2008 10:06:15 PM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Besides, you can't "convert" someone into being a dominant personality. They either are or aren't. End of story.

OH crap, you mean those DOM training boot camps are nothing but a RIP off? LOL... I have to second you on this one.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 9

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 3:21:21 AM

zakkan

Posts: 606
Joined: 4/15/2008
Status: offline

Just pretend nothing happened.

Since you offered to do all the housework if he/she becomes your dominant, that means the housework has been shared before the "conversion"

Since you failed to convert him/her, it means he/she rejected you offer of doing all the housework. Which he/she would rather do housework. Act like nothing is wrong. If he/she refuses to do the housework, citing your previous offer, it means you still have a hope of converting him/her!

_____________________________

Silence! I keel you!

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)

Post #: 10

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 5:46:57 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

You say you wanted a Dom man, and you married a man who you keep trying to get to fit your expectations of a relationship?

How is he contributing to the relationship? You do the housework - does he just watch TV all the time?

Your two projects - getting him to be a Dom and getting him to do housework - were conceived of by you with no input from him. Try communicating with him - what does HE want and what do you want - and then determine how to get there. JOINTLY.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to zakkan)

Post #: 11

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 6:15:33 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

to be your Dominant...

do you still have to do all the housework?

You know, one of the most common pieces of advice for encouraging a vanilla long-term partner to be Dominant is to be of service for them, and find things that you can do to make His/Her life easier.

However, if you determine that it's a total lost cause *after* you've set a precedent of Him/Her never having to lift a finger, how do you ease them back in to the real world?

Nobody ever has an exit plan

In other words, you(generic) submitted, the contract you wanted hasn't been fulfilled and now you wish to remove the submission. Then you just stop.
If the sum of the submission comes down to housework, then just cease doing it. Or leave.
There is always an exit plan, you just have to take responsibility for your actions and leave by it.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)

Post #: 12

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 8:05:07 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2
OH crap, you mean those DOM training boot camps are nothing but a RIP off? LOL... I have to second you on this one.

Well THANK GOD! I have been ass-kissing your posts way too much recently Whip. Finally, one I can disagree with!

Yes, of course, They HAVE to be a rip-off.. Any other answer doesn't protect the magical position that those of us who already have a sub enjoy. God forbid I should admit that leadership and dominance are trainable skills.. that'd mean that I'm not nearly so special.

In real life, people are not either "dom" or "sub". In real life, people have elements of both. Given time and inclination, in real life, I could train someone to be a "dom" (or a sub for that matter) assuming they were somewhere in the big hump in the bell curve or on the pointy end I'm wanting to train. If you want my guess, 80% can be trained. No, I wasn't gifted with some ineffable blessing from the gods that made me dom. My "domliness" does not in any way make me particularly special or unique. I have a few personality traits shored up by years of experience and training that bring me to where I am -- just like zillions of other people out there.

Those bootcamps (at least the few I looked at), ARE rip-offs, but not because it's not possible to train. It's just that the yahoos I looked at clearly didn't even have a clue what they were trying to train much less any hard knowledge around any of the underlying science (education theory, behavioral theory, sociology and anthropoogy, psychology and probably a few more). There is nothing that goes on in the D/s sphere that it particularly unusual or outside the normal mainstream bounds of human knowledge and experience.

To the OP: Perhaps your efforts to "convert your vanilla partner" would've met with more success had they been more forthright and honest.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)

Post #: 13

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 8:30:10 AM

FlamingRedhead

Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

to be your Dominant...

do you still have to do all the housework?

If you have given up, I suppose you don't have anything left to do but leave. It's just as unfair to expect someone to change as it is for someone to expect you to change.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

You know, one of the most common pieces of advice for encouraging a vanilla long-term partner to be Dominant is to be of service for them, and find things that you can do to make His/Her life easier.

It is also one of the most common pieces of advice for encouraging a submissive person to find things that fulfill the need to submit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

However, if you determine that it's a total lost cause *after* you've set a precedent of Him/Her never having to lift a finger, how do you ease them back in to the real world?

Nobody ever has an exit plan

I guess it depends on how you reached that determination. If you expected a magical transformation from vanilla to kink just because you became a servant to an unwilling or unaware participant, you set yourself up for disappointment. Maybe in her world, what you've been doing is nothing more than showing affection by treating her like a princess, and she has no idea she's supposed to actually act like a princess. Maybe you're both submissive. What then?

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)

Post #: 14

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 10:40:22 AM

trisket

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

If you are not leaving the relationship, but have now considered this transformation that you were secretly working on a lost cause.. then you are back to square one. You are in a committed relationship with a person that.. whether vanilla or not.. Dom or not.. doesnt fulfill all of your needs. You need to be open and honest with your partner. Tell your partner what you want, need, are missing and what you have been attempting to do to help the situation. The relationship is about BOTH people. Both have to be involved in meeting each other's needs. Compromise.. work it out. Dedicate yourself to that person's happiness and ensure they are trying to do the same.. and I am sure things will iron themselves out. Secret agenda's are unfair.

(in reply to FlamingRedhead)

Post #: 15

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 11:07:05 AM

sistermargaret

Posts: 101
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline

i see this from a totally different vantage point. i married 35 yrs. ago, made a life, made a family, have kids, grands and now great grands. Leaving isn't an option, i couldn't even consider doing that to my family.
Heck, i didn't know there was a name for my affliction (kink), just figured i was sick or something when we met and married, long before the invention of the PC. Then, 10 yrs. ago i discovered that i'm NOT sick, that there is this whole other world where i fit into comfortably.
Once we realized that i am 'kinky' we had many long conversations, went to parties together, even played, switching roles to find some comfort. He tried to convert ... but couldn't do it. He is just as vanillia as i am kinky and there is no way around it, in spite of the great love we have for one another. (Opposits attract)
So, we opened the marrigae. It was that or a future of total unhappiness for us both. Now, i tell hubby everything, who i'm with and where i am. i made sure that he met Master, approves of Him, and is OK with everything. It works for us.
Open marriages have been around as long as marriage itself ... maybe this is a reasonable option for you.
sm

All it takes is absolute surrender, sometimes just to life as it is.

(in reply to trisket)

Post #: 16

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 4:55:09 PM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Just out of curiousity here... does she understand why you have been doing all the housework and such? I mean, did you talk with her at all about it? If not, then I would just back off doing it slowly. You know, like each week do a little less and let her pick up the slack until it's on an even keel again. And if you did talk to her about it and she knows why you are/were doing it all and it hasn't helped your situation at all then I guess you can let her know. A simple.. "ok, this isn't working" would be a start.

And I'm guessing here... I take it the service you did wasn't exactly what you needed huh? I understand that and I'm just wondering if you wouldn't be happier in doing it if you were to change your mindset a little? Maybe she doesn't want to be the dominant you wanted, but is she happy with what you do for her? Have you succeeded in making her life easier? And in the long run, minus the kink of course, isn't that what you want?

Yeah, I'll keep asking questions here... How do you know it's a lost cause? What has happened to make you feel that way? There really is very little info there for us to comment on. If it's the simple fact that she hasn't started acting all dominant towards you, or at least in a way that you would expect a dominant female to act, then maybe your expectations are to high? Or maybe she is a slow study (no, I don't mean she's stupid!) and just hasn't really had time for it to soak in? And maybe she really has no clue as to why you do what you do and if that's the case then maybe it would be best if you shared that info with her.

I really hate acting on blind guesses so the best I can do is try and cover as many bases as possible and hope it helps some.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to sistermargaret)

Post #: 17

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/19/2008 9:52:51 PM

azropedntied

Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Besides, you can't "convert" someone into being a dominant personality. They either are or aren't. End of story.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 18

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/20/2008 6:57:37 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Open and honest communication? Tell them that the reason you've been doing everything was in the hopes he/she might extrapolate from that but since they haven't, and your needs aren't being met, you don't have the energy to do everything.

If they choose an equal power relationship, then they get equal amounts of responsibility, not all the rights and none of the responsibility.

Bingo!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 19

RE: If you give up on "converting" a vanilla ... - 9/20/2008 7:20:51 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Leadership527 (disclaimer - he lives down the street from me)

quote:

Those bootcamps (at least the few I looked at), ARE rip-offs, but not because it's not possible to train. It's just that the yahoos I looked at clearly didn't even have a clue what they were trying to train much less any hard knowledge around any of the underlying science (education theory, behavioral theory, sociology and anthropology, psychology and probably a few more). There is nothing that goes on in the

Considering the quality of the dominants that are griped about daily and even hourly on these pages I don't think we really need to hold dominance on too high a pedestal. Not only that, the reality is that bdsm relationships are actually just relationships. The vanilla world has just as many extremely slanted and one sided power exchange relationships as we do and probably on average as many healthy ones as well. The real difference is that we have a more developed language set to describe them, just as Eskimos have better words for discussing snow.

I know that when I entered my local scene there were damn few dominants who impressed me with their skills and when I entered the scene I had no real prior d/s fantasies, I had just realized I was "one of them". Hell, I am still not impressed with much of what I see in San Francisco. The reason is that both the extreme idiots and the ones who really have their heads screwed on straight tend to avoid the public scene or do what I do and simply keep one toe in the water.

I think that is why CM is so special, there are those men and women with their heads screwed on straight who come here because others and here and suddenly it is self selecting. DesFip is one I recently noticed as a person of note, lots of others as well. Darcy and the Dark and I often disagree but we come from different places, clearly they have a relationship that works for them and at the end of the day, that is really the only thing that matters.

So yeah, while I don't think you can make someone who is deeply deeply submissive into a kick ass dominant but you can take someone who is just above the mean average and make them into a competent dominant, certainly enough to make many women here deliriously happy.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 9/20/2008 7:27:13 AM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 20

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