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RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/20/2008 9:27:12 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

My views changed when Hamas was elected. I, like many others, said ok, you want to sit at the table with the adults, then act like it. But the goals had changed and that is a problem.
Hezbollah screws with Israel and Lebanon becomes Lebanot. Everyone says, Bad Israel. Well, Hezbollah’s got more shit now and is a problem. Where does everybody get their shit from? Russia and to a lesser extent China. Guess who’s going to make sure that Iran achieves its nuclear ambitions and has been working with them all this time? Russia .Guess who is in Tartus? Guess who is in Venezuela?
 


Hamas asked Israel for peace negotiations the moment they were elected. The Bush administration said no which delighted Israel who also promptly said no.  Hezbollah are a product of Israeli aggression in Lebanon, before Israel invaded Lebanon in the 80s they didn't exist, they are a self defence force of Lebanonese formed in that war. The US calls them terrorists because it suits the US to do so. It doesn't surprise me that Russia or even China were to help Iran get nuclear weapons, they are only doing what the US does with Israel.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

This technically, isn’t new. What is new is that everyone’s cards are now on the table.
So, therefore, I will tell you what is going to happen if there is a division of Jerusalem at this time. The world will sit back and applaud, finally. Hamas, which can’t seem to be controlled is going to cross it. Different goals.



If there was ever a division of Jerusalem it would be in a comprehensive peace plan. Israel and the US have done everything in their power to avoid that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

Israel will have not only internal conflicts but then be forced to occupy East Jerusalem. Then the world can say, Bad Israel. It can then spiral out of control again for what everyone already knows. Because most ME countries will say they are for the Palestinian cause, frankly just because they do not want them in there own country. However, this is yet another proxy war with some larger jack offs in the big picture. Then others will step forward “in defense” of the Palestinian cause.


Israel avoids peace because the US is willing to bankroll their wars and turn a blind eye to Israeli huiman rights abuses. At some point American tax payers might think that backing an uncompromising Israel costs too much and turn the money tap off, then Israel will have to negotiate peace. Good sense would say it is better to negotiate from strength which is now rather than a possible future weakness but when has good sense ever been a part of middle east politics?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/20/2008 2:51:25 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't think any politician anywhere has ever been elected because he or she is warm and fuzzy. Part of being a politician is having a fair bit of egotism and pit bull in you.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/20/2008 3:40:06 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Lol..Bethnai. Tell us how you really feel.  I am a big HELL NO too.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

Oh hell no.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/20/2008 7:05:54 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So "mindless right wing ideologues" are responsible for everything that's wrong with the Middle East...



Seeing as all the smelly hippies are all smoking hash... Yeah, that's about right.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/20/2008 7:36:38 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		They said the same thing about Hillary. Now she's a has been.




< Message edited by Evility -- 9/20/2008 7:37:28 PM >

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 6:52:55 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yeahhhh, she's a pitbull alright. One that wants a leashed and muzzled debate. I am thinking teacup yorkie fits better.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 6:56:52 AM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Frankly, I don't see that we got a dog in this fight at all.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:01:55 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I could find a few that might be better suited than a few of the current candidates. The worst they would do is bite or piss on the carpet.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to NumberSix)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:05:15 AM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Or in the case of the current dog impoundment, piss themselves, and backsplash  the hell outta us.

6

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:11:34 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		i have a pitbull, moreover i rescue "vicious" pittbulls and rehome them and they can indeed be rehomed with love and teaching...just like humans.

i wish folks in the media would understand that pitbulls are not in of themselves any differnt then other dogs, they just get worse press.

sorry i had to say that...please return to your thread.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to NumberSix)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:19:13 AM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		properly speaking, it's is the contraction if it is,  and business --- Make it so, number one.

CT,

Many synecdoches used today (formidably so in the plitical milieu) are so fundamentally flawed that they are inherently an object of ridicule.

This is why you behold my lightweight treatment of them, betimes.

6

< Message edited by NumberSix -- 9/21/2008 7:21:47 AM >

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:31:45 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

They said the same thing about Hillary. Now she's a has been.





Hillary has lost a big batte..no question about that.  However, a "has been". I don't think so.  After Obama loses in a sweep this November Hillary..not Bill will be the leader of a more moderate democrat party.  I don't agee with a great deal of her agenda, but this woman has "true grit" and should have listened to her heart and not stupid advisors. She should be at the top of the democrat ticket, not a media elected nominee. 

(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 7:40:14 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i have a pitbull, moreover i rescue "vicious" pittbulls and rehome them and they can indeed be rehomed with love and teaching...just like humans.

i wish folks in the media would understand that pitbulls are not in of themselves any differnt then other dogs, they just get worse press.

sorry i had to say that...please return to your thread.


Pit bulls of every member of the animal kingdom get "bad press"..from dogs to humans.  I think it's the basic power struggle between those people out their on the firing line on both sides of the aisle..and in other areas away from politics, and the press, who's power over us was achieved not by their election to this high level of responsibility, but GIVEN to them by some suit in a corporate office in Manhattan.

People in the media associate themselves with "winners" in life and hope the public will give them the benefit of "association".  Most are "full of sound and fury"...words written for them and read off a teleprompter.  So it's "pit bulls" in general the press hates...or are very jealous of...in my opinion.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 8:07:54 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

They said the same thing about Hillary. Now she's a has been.





Right. Because being a Senator from New York is a dead-end gig, right?

Remember, IT'S ALL PHONY. Staged in advance for a gullible public who believes their vote will actually be counted.

Your vote isn't going to be counted.

The planned result will be announced.

We're all going to continue getting fucked.

Don't cry for Obama, either... He's got a long career ahead of him.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 9/21/2008 8:08:53 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 8:34:28 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

properly speaking, it's is the contraction if it is,  and business --- Make it so, number one.

CT,

Many synecdoches used today (formidably so in the plitical milieu) are so fundamentally flawed that they are inherently an object of ridicule.

This is why you behold my lightweight treatment of them, betimes.

6


god damn you are so sexy when i dont have a clue what you are talking about.....you use words like spiders use silk....and the rain hangs dangerously and beautifully upon them....woof.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to NumberSix)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 4:55:28 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Hamas asked Israel for peace negotiations the moment they were elected.

Yes, but temporarily. Also found here. (Specifically, on page 1 of the introduction because they had been elected right before it went to publishing and from here on out I will use ML to distinguish it from other sources.) Hamas was going to settle for the moment and they had no intention of abandoning their charter . Hamas is not a really new group. They have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood that date back from before Israel as a nation-state was born.
“Though it was officially founded on December 14, 1987, a semi-official history of Hamas establishes 1967 as the year of the group’s genesis-as the Muslim Brotherhood’s Palestinian wing. Hamas acknowledges its Brotherhood roots in its April 1988 charter: “The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine.” Hamas’ roots actually extend further back than 1967. “The mother movement to which Hamas belongs,” according to Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood leader Ziad Abu Ghanima, “is the Muslim Brotherhood Society which has been digging its roots into Palestinian soil for decades before the establishment of the occupying Zionist entity.”(ML 19-20)
There are also available sources on line for the same information. However, the difference lies in the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood’s agenda is not to attack Israel until they have purified (unify) their religion. Hamas states that it is not necessary to wait, you can get on down with the Jihad (external) right now. Hamas has banked off that social network. Hamas has every intention of playing to the media and every intention of taking a secular Palestinian people and turning them into extremists.




I will address the rest later.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/21/2008 5:09:25 PM   
TheUtopian


Posts: 259
Status: offline
quote:


Sounded familiar to me..Sarah Palin?...Nope..Tzipi Livini, recently elected Prime Minister of Israel. 


Heh....I like those plain Jane, tough-on-the-inside, dishwater-blonde, career-minded Jewish girls.....





- R








_____________________________

Vae Victus! - Woe to the conquered....

My tears are the cure for cancer - I sweat testosterone, bleed black, and piss excellence.

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Don't underestimate this woman - she's a pit bull. - 9/28/2008 8:33:49 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

My views changed when Hamas was elected. I, like many others, said ok, you want to sit at the table with the adults, then act like it. But the goals had changed and that is a problem.
Hezbollah screws with Israel and Lebanon becomes Lebanot. Everyone says, Bad Israel. Well, Hezbollah’s got more shit now and is a problem. Where does everybody get their shit from? Russia and to a lesser extent China. Guess who’s going to make sure that Iran achieves its nuclear ambitions and has been working with them all this time? Russia .Guess who is in Tartus? Guess who is in Venezuela?
 


Hamas asked Israel for peace negotiations the moment they were elected. The Bush administration said no which delighted Israel who also promptly said no.  Hezbollah are a product of Israeli aggression in Lebanon, before Israel invaded Lebanon in the 80s they didn't exist, they are a self defence force of Lebanonese formed in that war. The US calls them terrorists because it suits the US to do so. It doesn't surprise me that Russia or even China were to help Iran get nuclear weapons, they are only doing what the US does with Israel.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

This technically, isn’t new. What is new is that everyone’s cards are now on the table.
So, therefore, I will tell you what is going to happen if there is a division of Jerusalem at this time. The world will sit back and applaud, finally. Hamas, which can’t seem to be controlled is going to cross it. Different goals.



If there was ever a division of Jerusalem it would be in a comprehensive peace plan. Israel and the US have done everything in their power to avoid that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

Israel will have not only internal conflicts but then be forced to occupy East Jerusalem. Then the world can say, Bad Israel. It can then spiral out of control again for what everyone already knows. Because most ME countries will say they are for the Palestinian cause, frankly just because they do not want them in there own country. However, this is yet another proxy war with some larger jack offs in the big picture. Then others will step forward “in defense” of the Palestinian cause.


Israel avoids peace because the US is willing to bankroll their wars and turn a blind eye to Israeli huiman rights abuses. At some point American tax payers might think that backing an uncompromising Israel costs too much and turn the money tap off, then Israel will have to negotiate peace. Good sense would say it is better to negotiate from strength which is now rather than a possible future weakness but when has good sense ever been a part of middle east politics?


Hezbollah did not rise up out of occupation. That is a complete disrespect to what was going on in Lebanon at the time. The PLO was the destabilizing force that pushed Lebanon into civil war and they had been recently kicked out of Jordan. Jordan, you know that place that was all about the Palestinians in 1922? They called it Trans-Jordan back then.  We are not even going to contemplate Syria's refusal to acknowledge Lebanon as a country and the 30 year occupation. It is a complete and total disregard for Amal. That is exactly what Hezbollah's answer is to. Complete disregard for the movements at the time that realized that they were caught between the Soviet Union and the US. Complete disregard for Musa al-Sadr.  Complete disregard for immigration problems with Palestinians looking for work and working for less money than the residents. Complete disregard for the Shia's.

I'm not a fan of Ariel Sharon, but he called it right. You get to bomb the hell out of Israel and operate by different laws then dealing with a nation state. A nation state would actually give a damn about the people. The PLO did not. They were bombing the crap out of civilians and then running and hiding among the civilian population. It is not necessary if you realize it or not, there were people in Israel living in bomb shelters. A bus, a school etc. and so on. 2006, you don't get to instigate and then run and hide. Stop the shit or get spanked. Period.

Don't tell me that Israel hasn't been spanked by the US.  Israel was not supposed to go in and nail Osirak. You know, nuclear reactors provided by the French?  Scuds from Iraq-do nothing- a deep humiliation?
Don't tell me that Israel has not stepped forward and given up all kinds of shit for peace, Begin walked in (incidently which is the problem with the woman this thread is originally about) and gave up all kinds of shit. He did this without even consulting the Knesset and you know what? Arafat walked. Yep.

By no means am I stating that Israel or the US is always on the up and up. I have no problem stating precisely where they fuck up. That ain't it.

Israel did not create Hezbolla. Further, Israel financially back Hamas just to overthrow PLO many, many years ago. The Palestinians already have a home land.














(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 38
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