RE: do you think the media is bias? (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 8:50:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

**Fast Reply**

Did I read in this thread that every study shows a right wing bias?  That's kind of funny.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx 
quote:

 

While the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal is conservative, the newspaper's news pages are liberal, even more liberal than The New York Times. The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left. Coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media. Meanwhile, almost all major media outlets tilt to the left.
These are just a few of the surprising findings from a UCLA-led study, which is believed to be the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly.
"I suspected that many media outlets would tilt to the left because surveys have shown that reporters tend to vote more Democrat than Republican," said Tim Groseclose, a UCLA political scientist and the study's lead author. "But I was surprised at just how pronounced the distinctions are."
"Overall, the major media outlets are quite moderate compared to members of Congress, but even so, there is a quantifiable and significant bias in that nearly all of them lean to the left," said co‑author Jeffrey Milyo, University of Missouri economist and public policy scholar.
The results appear in the latest issue of the Quarterly Journal of Economics, which will become available in mid-December.



http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp

quote:

 


How the Media Vote. Surveys of journalists’ self-reported voting habits show them backing the Democratic candidate in every presidential election since 1964, including landslide losers George McGovern, Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis. In 2004, a poll conducted by the University of Connecticut found journalists backed John Kerry over George W. Bush by a greater than two-to-one margin. See Section.


http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/pdf/BiasBasics.pdf 

Just a couple of quickies.  There have been other studies by universities that show exactly the same thing.



Let me see if I have this straight.

You are citing a conservative group that was formed for the sole purpose of proving the media has a liberal bias in order to make your argument that the media has a liberal bias? 

How unbiased of you.




Thadius -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 8:54:32 AM)

quote:


Let me see if I have this straight.

You are citing a conservative group that was formed for the sole purpose of proving the media has a liberal bias in order to make your argument that the media has a liberal bias? 

How unbiased of you.


I didn't realize that UCLA was a conservative group...




kittinSol -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:00:38 AM)

Whoever can quantify something as subjective as political bias in the media accurately deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. There are plenty of news media out there who are firmly on the right: guess who's the most popular vulpine of all [8D] ?

People get strident about what they perceive to be an unfair bias, but I think right-wingers get particularly pissed off because they cannot control the points of view of the news media that aren't on their side. From their objections, I can only conclude that they fear diversity of opinion and free expression.





rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:02:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKy

Interesting study about press coverage during the Democratic primary:

Obama’s Margin of Victory: The Media

Extracts:



Key Findings:

# The three broadcast networks treated Obama to nearly seven times more good press than bad — 462 positive stories (34% of the total), compared with only 70 stories (just 5%) that were critical.

# NBC Nightly News was the most lopsided, with 179 pro-Obama reports (37%), more than ten times the number of anti-Obama stories (17, or 3%). The CBS Evening News was nearly as skewed, with 156 stories spun in favor of Obama (38%), compared to a mere 21 anti-Obama reports (5%). ABC’s World News was the least slanted, but still tilted roughly four-to-one in Obama’s favor (127 stories to 32, or 27% to 7%).

# Barack Obama received his best press when it mattered most, as he debuted on the national scene. All of the networks lavished him with praise when he was keynote speaker at the 2004 Democratic Convention, and did not produce a single negative story about Obama (out of 81 total reports) prior to the start of his presidential campaign in early 2007.

# The networks downplayed or ignored major Obama gaffes and scandals. Obama’s relationship with convicted influence peddler Tony Rezko was the subject of only two full reports (one each on ABC and NBC) and mentioned in just 15 other stories. CBS and NBC also initially downplayed controversial statements from Obama’s longtime pastor Jeremiah Wright, but heavily praised Obama’s March 18 speech on race relations.

# While Obama’s worst media coverage came during the weeks leading up to the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, even then the networks offered two positive stories for every one that carried a negative spin (21% to 9%). Obama’s best press of the year came after he won the North Carolina primary on May 6 — after that, 43 percent of stories were favorable to Obama, compared to just one percent that were critical.

# The networks minimized Obama’s liberal ideology, only referring to him as a "liberal" 14 times in four years. In contrast, reporters found twice as many occasions (29) to refer to Obama as either a "rock star," "rising star" or "superstar" during the same period.

# In covering the campaign, network reporters highlighted voters who offered favorable opinions about Obama. Of 147 average citizens who expressed an on-camera opinion about Obama, 114 (78%) were pro-Obama, compared to just 28 (19%) that had a negative view, with the remaining five offering a mixed opinion.

Since this study doesn't cover the "Republican/Democratic" divide, I found it particularly entertaining.

Just as an example of the "reporters" (and editors) choice in framing the news ... take the number of positive "man in the street" interviews.  I seriously doubt that anyone set out to ensure that the majority of the interviews were pro-Obama.  It's just that they were the ones most likely to actually make the broadcast.

There are several books worth of analysis that can be (and have been) done on the subject.

Firm



Explain to me how you can credibly quote a study done by a group that already had its outcome predetermined.

I mean, the whole purpose of the Media Research Center is to prove that the media has a liberal bias.  That's why the group was formed.

So, how can their results be considered as anything but biased? 




rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:06:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:


Let me see if I have this straight.

You are citing a conservative group that was formed for the sole purpose of proving the media has a liberal bias in order to make your argument that the media has a liberal bias? 

How unbiased of you.


I didn't realize that UCLA was a conservative group...


Apparently you didn't realize the same about the Media Research Center.  I'm sure that was just a harmless oversight though.




Thadius -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:07:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Whoever can quantify something as subjective as political bias in the media accurately deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. There are plenty of news media out there who are firmly on the right: guess who's the most popular vulpine of all [8D] ?

People get strident about what they perceive to be an unfair bias, but I think right-wingers get particularly pissed off because they cannot control the points of view of the news media that aren't on their side. From their objections, I can only conclude that they fear diversity of opinion and free expression.




Actually, I believe both sides of the political spectrum need to be represented.  I am against the fairness doctrine being brought back, for numerous reasons.  My opinion is that local and national news agencies should report the news, not make it by spinning one way or the other.  That is what opinion pieces are for in the newspapers, and what opinion and debate shows are for on television. 

See the difference?




Thadius -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:11:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:


Let me see if I have this straight.

You are citing a conservative group that was formed for the sole purpose of proving the media has a liberal bias in order to make your argument that the media has a liberal bias? 

How unbiased of you.


I didn't realize that UCLA was a conservative group...


Apparently you didn't realize the same about the Media Research Center.  I'm sure that was just a harmless oversight though.


I included the Media Research link as it had some other information that I thought was practical to the discussion.  IF you read my post again you will see that my main highlight was pointing out that studies by universities have shown the exact same thing.  Which directly contradicts the point raised earlier that all studies show that the media leans to the right.

quote:

 

The researchers took numerous steps to safeguard against bias — or the appearance of same — in the work, which took close to three years to complete. They went to great lengths to ensure that as many research assistants supported Democratic candidate Al Gore in the 2000 election as supported President George Bush. They also sought no outside funding, a rarity in scholarly research.

"No matter the results, we feared our findings would've been suspect if we'd received support from any group that could be perceived as right- or left-leaning, so we consciously decided to fund this project only with our own salaries and research funds that our own universities provided," Groseclose said.

The results break new ground.

"Past researchers have been able to say whether an outlet is conservative or liberal, but no one has ever compared media outlets to lawmakers," Groseclose said. "Our work gives a precise characterization of the bias and relates it to known commodity — politicians."
-UCLA-



I know it's easier to take shots at the other source... [8|]




kittinSol -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:11:31 AM)

And how do you propose to achieve this noble goal?

Incidentally, this talk of UCLA makes me want to post their study on the left-wing and right-wing brain again. Brilliant and entertaining research :-) .




rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:19:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Whoever can quantify something as subjective as political bias in the media accurately deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. There are plenty of news media out there who are firmly on the right: guess who's the most popular vulpine of all [8D] ?

People get strident about what they perceive to be an unfair bias, but I think right-wingers get particularly pissed off because they cannot control the points of view of the news media that aren't on their side. From their objections, I can only conclude that they fear diversity of opinion and free expression.




Actually, I believe both sides of the political spectrum need to be represented.  I am against the fairness doctrine being brought back, for numerous reasons.  My opinion is that local and national news agencies should report the news, not make it by spinning one way or the other.  That is what opinion pieces are for in the newspapers, and what opinion and debate shows are for on television. 

See the difference?


Yes, where we disagree is that there is a bias and not just Republicans, in the grand Agnew tradition, trying to deflect criticism by pissing and moaning that the mean liberal media isn't being fair.

I don't recall anyone blasting the media in '04 when they ran constant stories that let the swift-boat scumbags that slandered Kerry have their fifteen minutes of fame.




Thadius -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:31:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Whoever can quantify something as subjective as political bias in the media accurately deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. There are plenty of news media out there who are firmly on the right: guess who's the most popular vulpine of all [8D] ?

People get strident about what they perceive to be an unfair bias, but I think right-wingers get particularly pissed off because they cannot control the points of view of the news media that aren't on their side. From their objections, I can only conclude that they fear diversity of opinion and free expression.




Actually, I believe both sides of the political spectrum need to be represented.  I am against the fairness doctrine being brought back, for numerous reasons.  My opinion is that local and national news agencies should report the news, not make it by spinning one way or the other.  That is what opinion pieces are for in the newspapers, and what opinion and debate shows are for on television. 

See the difference?


Yes, where we disagree is that there is a bias and not just Republicans, in the grand Agnew tradition, trying to deflect criticism by pissing and moaning that the mean liberal media isn't being fair.

I don't recall anyone blasting the media in '04 when they ran constant stories that let the swift-boat scumbags that slandered Kerry have their fifteen minutes of fame.


I seem to remember quite a bit of talk about it.  So much so that the term was coined, and is being used as a hammer by folks on the left to describe anything they think is negative.

I will give you a recent example.  How much have you seen or read about McCain's ads being full of lies and inaccuracies in the mainstream media?  How about Obama's ads? 





rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:36:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius



I know it's easier to take shots at the other source... [8|]


No, I accept the UCLA study as a valid rebuttal to the other studies.

I think they all have to be taken with a grain of salt though.

As much as they like to pretend impartiality, most who undertake a study or research project are out to bolster their own beliefs.




rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:44:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I will give you a recent example.  How much have you seen or read about McCain's ads being full of lies and inaccuracies in the mainstream media?  How about Obama's ads? 




If the shoe fits.............




Thadius -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 9:54:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I will give you a recent example.  How much have you seen or read about McCain's ads being full of lies and inaccuracies in the mainstream media?  How about Obama's ads? 




If the shoe fits.............


Nice avoidance of the points.

Oh well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMWFHxQu6g 

quote:

 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/18/politics/washingtonpost/main4457407.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4457407

Despite perceptions that Sen. John McCain has spent more time on the attack, Sen. Barack Obama aired more negative advertising last week than did the Arizona Republican, says a study released yesterday.

Seventy-seven percent of the Illinois Democrat's commercials were negative during the week after the Republican National Convention, compared with 56 percent of the spots run by McCain.

See Recent Ads From Both Candidates

Ken Goldstein, who directed the study by the Wisconsin Advertising Project, based at the University of Wisconsin, says the pattern was a reversal from earlier months, in which McCain's advertising was consistently more negative than Obama's.

....

Interest-group advertising was marginal at $187,000, although that is expected to ramp up in the coming weeks. Three pro-Obama groups aired commercials -- the Service Employees International Union, Defenders of Wildlife and Planned Parenthood -- while one, Vets for Freedom, ran spots on McCain's behalf.




StrangerThan -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 10:15:36 AM)

I can't speak to a perspective of the broadcast media because I don't watch any of them. Most of the slant I get comes from passing glances at news stories sitting out there to be read, and in those two things come up, one Obama seems to be the media darling and two, they desperately want race injected into the equation.

The one thing I do know is this. Had McCain spent 20 years cuddling up to an unabashed racist, he would be retired and sitting somewhere on a front porch watching the last days of summer fade into fall instead of being the presidential nominee. He'd have more friends if he was a leper who had advanced aids and carried a swastika tattooed in the middle of his forehead.

The person I really, really wanted to see in politics was Colin Powell, so that paragraph above doesn't come from a racist stance. It simply is what it is. When it comes to trying to decide who is biased and who isn't, the issue comes back to that point for me. It doesn't affect who my choice will be when I stand in the voting line. It does however, tell me who a lot of people want me to vote for and how willing they are to compromise their own core beliefs for a party. Grin. Kind of like I've always believed, didn't matter a whole lot who the Republicans ran or who the Democrats ran. One could be Saint Nick, the other Hitler and both sides would still find reason to villify the other. This election, like most of them, is mostly choosing the lesser of evils. Right now, I'm not sure who that is but I do know which way I'm leaning. 




bipolarber -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 10:45:27 AM)

Well, like I said some time back, I have lots of faith in McCain and his campaign team, to fuck up. Just look this last week at his "fundamentals are strong" comment, and the "Obama kindergarden sex ed" ad that backfired, then him wanting to find a scapegoat in the chairman of the SEC, and now his railing against Obama for looking far more Presidential than he, in this latest crisis.

McCain and his team are made of fail.




DomKen -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 10:52:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Oh for Chris'sake, Ken...   The LA Times???  The same Democrat party house organ that buried the Schwarzenegger groping story over the summer, so they could blast it across the front page 4 days before the election?  (It didn't work, but they gave it a shot anyway).  Did you happen to catch the comment by a McC staffer, that the NYT is no longer a journalistic organization?  I got a kick out of that.

     We get the worldview of the people who write the stories, and the people who decide what stories those people will write.  People in the media business are overwhelmingly liberal.  They might check the box that says "moderate" when the samples get taken, but look into where they report standing on issues, compared to the rest of the country.  Numbers like 82% being pro-choice, 89% voting for Bill Clinton, or 78% favoring stricter gun control measures.  Not all that "moderate" really (numbers grabbed from Bias by Bernard Goldberg).  They just call it how they, and the people they work with, see it.  

Actually if you had bothered to read teh article rather than whining about something else you would have seen the study in question waas done by George Mason U. Not by some outfit funded to make up their own facts like the MRC but an actual university.

As to the various and sundry that quoted the MRC, a group that was created and funded to support a POV doesn't convince me of anything.




rulemylife -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 4:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius




From your link:

"Despite perceptions that Sen. John McCain has spent more time on the attack, Sen. Barack Obama aired more negative advertising last week than did the Arizona Republican, says a study released yesterday."
(bold type added)

Now tell me which straight-talker started the negative ball rolling after pledging not to run a negative campaign.

Washington Wire - WSJ.com : WSJ/NBC News Poll: McCain Running a ...
Aug 20, 2008 ... By a nearly six-to-one margin, voters say Republican presidential candidate John
McCain is running a negative campaign against his ...
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/08/20/wsjnbc-news-poll-mccain-running-a-negative-campaign/
 




hoodie -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 4:15:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Always amazes me that the biased media always is left if you are on the right....and right if you are on the left...
Editorial news shows, O'Rielly, Hannity, Olberman, are not news at all....
We see things through our own prisim...and that determines our view of most everything politic.


The solution is simple...

Watch Olberman, than watch O'Rielly...and you're back into the center, scratching your head going, "huh...what did these moron's just say?"





Steponme73 -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 5:25:07 PM)

Of course they are!!!  Most journalist are liberals and as such they don't like conservatives.  They have always been on the side of the democrats...it just is worse this time.  They try and paint a super negative picture of the conservatives.  This is the worse I have ever seen, since I started paying attention to this kind of thing back in the 60's.




thetammyjo -> RE: do you think the media is bias? (9/23/2008 5:28:51 PM)

"The View" is hardly "the media".

Most mainstream media is owned by big businesses who promote and fund neo-con agendas which use some conservative ideas to manipulate large numbers of people as well as offer minor funding to other political groups when they think they may have something to gain.

Frankly these businesses aren't conservative or liberal but merely elite capitalists. Anyone they hire had best get on board with their agendas or they can kiss their careers goodbye.




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