Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub with a drug problem?

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Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub with... - 9/24/2008 7:55:05 AM

youngstownsubm

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I made a thread a while back asking if people would take subs who were recreational drug users. This thread is different--it's about whether or not a Dominant can help rehabilitate a serious drug addict. For subs with serious drug problems, can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to cure them of it?

I talked with a Domme in #subs_for_Dommes who said She had taken in a sub who was a meth addict and cured him of his addiction, so I tend to think this is possible.

To the Dominants out there: if a sub approaches you who has a drug addiction and s/he is determined to get clean, but feels s/he needs the strict control of a Dominant to do so, would you consider taking them? Provided s/he fits all your other criteria for a sub.

Has anyone here ever dealt with such a situation? And if so, how did they do it? How did they deal with the initial withdrawal, and did the sub ever relapse?

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:13:59 AM

LadyBanedeFaol

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It all depends on whether the submissive truly wishes to be helped. No amount of help in the world will help an addict if they dont wish to come clean. Anyone can help an addict if the addict truly desires in their heart and soul to be clean.
Our house tried to help a submissive quit smoking because she begged us to be smoke free. In the end she refused to give up her cigarettes. She gave up her collar instead. The cigarettes turned out to be more important to her.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:18:43 AM

GreedyTop

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what LAdy said...

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:31:56 AM

leadership527

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Has anyone here ever dealt with such a situation? Yes
How did they do it? Careful examination of the patterns and habits of the sub involved yielded a plan for gradual withdrawal (rather than cold turkey) custom tailored to her emotional needs. Executed plan. Dealt with the various expected hiccups, mood swings, and whatnot. Much love and attention and cuddling. Zero punishment.
How did they deal with the initial withdrawal? Idle hands do the devil's work and all... I kept her busy with delightful things.
Did the sub ever relapse? Too soon to tell. My expectation is not. She will be mine until one of us dies and I've already been blatantly manipulative and inserted the thought in her head that should I not be around and she revert, it would dishonor the memory of me and our marriage.

In the end, there are no guarantees in these sorts of things. Honestly, her desire to submit was more than strong enough to overcome the problem she was facing at least for the withdrawal stages. We'll have to see how it goes over time.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:32:24 AM

JewAndCelt

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Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
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I've been in similar situations, both within and out of this lifestyle. Needless to say, I learned quickly that I can't save anyone who doesn't want to be saved.

Now when it comes to drug use, I find two problems. First off, I believe that any person under the influence of ANY mind-altering substance (and by this I mean controlled substances and alcohol) has absolutely no business participating - or attempting to participate -n BDSM related activities. How can a submissive/slave even begin to submit when s/he is already pretty much a slave to some chemical substance?

Secondly, there are a plethora of health concerns - too many to enumerate - which are the side effects of many controlled substances. Just as there are many types of play / activities encompassed within the realm of BDSM, there are many dangers and hazards which accompany them. More importantly, how can a person likely under the influence of a chemical substance give consent?

The risks are too great in many cases for such a task to be undertaken by anyone other than a substance abuse counselor, professional or someone knowledgeable within the realm of controlled substances. I would strongly suggest NOT playing or dealing with persons under the influence or who admit to the use of such substances on a regular basis.

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(in reply to LadyBanedeFaol)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:34:30 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngstownsubm

I made a thread a while back asking if people would take subs who were recreational drug users. This thread is different--it's about whether or not a Dominant can help rehabilitate a serious drug addict. For subs with serious drug problems, can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to cure them of it?

I talked with a Domme in #subs_for_Dommes who said She had taken in a sub who was a meth addict and cured him of his addiction, so I tend to think this is possible.

To the Dominants out there: if a sub approaches you who has a drug addiction and s/he is determined to get clean, but feels s/he needs the strict control of a Dominant to do so, would you consider taking them? Provided s/he fits all your other criteria for a sub.

Has anyone here ever dealt with such a situation? And if so, how did they do it? How did they deal with the initial withdrawal, and did the sub ever relapse?

Nothing…no amount of begging, coercion, threats, etc…nothing will keep an addict from their addiction unless the addict themselves wants to stop.

Notice, I did not say ‘unless the addict wants help”. Wanting help, and wanting to stop are two different things.

On the other side, you have to understand that the side effects of de-tox with some addictions are more deadly than the use of a drug itself.

So my answer…

If the addict truly wants to stop using; do so under the guidance of professional medical care.

A dominant, unless they have a medical degree…does not have the proper tools for dealing with withdrawl.

End of story.

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:36:29 AM

Missokyst

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People have been known to give up food, their families, their jobs, their own children, because of the pursuit of drugs.
Very few people I know woke up one morning and said "Gee, I think I will try Cocaine today." Or "I think I should see what this meth stuff is all about."
Hard drug use comes with background. It is not the same deal as recreational marijuana smokers.
What exactly would make someone ideal in every other way, since drugs become their own identity?
Kyst

(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:39:53 AM

DesFIP

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Well if the top is a trained counselor I suppose it's possible, but unethical. It would be easier to transfer the addiction from a drug to the top than to cure it and leave the addict capable of handling life on their own.

As far as smoking goes, about 20% of nicotine users find it easier to stop using heroin than nicotine, a person who falls in that category must have more help than simply 'will power' or 'desire to please'. Zyban or other medications that eliminate the craving do work if they can be tolerated. I'm curious if the smoker was pushed to see a doctor to receive this help or was not given any needed aid.

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:43:08 AM

curvyslavegirl

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To be simplistic in my answer, No!

Generally all that comes of those attempts is unhealthy codependency.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:45:59 AM

DiurnalVampire

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From: Nashville, TN
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I personally would still not take a sub with a drug addiction. I might have considered someone who was already in rehab and making their own progress before they met me. I will not, however, be someone's crutch for stopping their addiction. That puts them in a position not to take responsibility for anything that happens. If they are successful, then its all good, but if they are not it is not their fault. They blame the dominant who was supposed to be "making" them quit. I will not get involved in a relationship where I come second to something and have to fight to become first, even if it is for their own good.
If they truly want to be rid of the addiction, they have to make the effort without me. I will help later, and be supportive, but I will not be responsible for it.
DV

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(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:52:32 AM

JewAndCelt

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Well if the top is a trained counselor I suppose it's possible, but unethical. It would be easier to transfer the addiction from a drug to the top than to cure it and leave the addict capable of handling life on their own.
I agree - it makes me wonder if dominants undertake such matters out of concern for the submissive(s) or if s/he has an ulterior motive?
As far as smoking goes, about 20% of nicotine users find it easier to stop using heroin than nicotine, a person who falls in that category must have more help than simply 'will power' or 'desire to please'. Zyban or other medications that eliminate the craving do work if they can be tolerated. I'm curious if the smoker was pushed to see a doctor to receive this help or was not given any needed aid.

I know all about heroin - that wasn't a difficult habit to quit and I've been free of that particular devil for about twelve years. I've tried to stop smoking a million times and succeeded - until I lit the next one. It's all a matter of will and desire. There's nothing anyone else can do or say that would truly cause me to stop. And honestly, I don't see myself submitting to someone else in desperate attempt to curb my habits.

_____________________________

Maturity is patience. Mastery is nine times patience.

!!!!!!כי לא נולד הבן זונה שיעצור את ישראל

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 8:55:04 AM

thetammyjo

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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I see dominant and therapist as two different roles.

I don't think an ethical therapist would use her/his skills on family or friends so that objectivity can be maintained.

I don't think an ethical dominant would attempt to be The Solution to their sub's problems.

I think a good dominant should however insist on getting help and being supportive without allowing the unwanted behavior to continue and to stand up for him/herself and walk if the addict is not doing their work in the recovery process.

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(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:00:43 AM

kolekorin

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Joined: 2/26/2008
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I would say no unless the Dominant one locked the sub in a cage for a year. Heaven help the cage if the sub is a crystal meth user though.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:12:19 AM

justgemmie

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Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngstownsubm

I made a thread a while back asking if people would take subs who were recreational drug users. This thread is different--it's about whether or not a Dominant can help rehabilitate a serious drug addict. For subs with serious drug problems, can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to cure them of it?

I talked with a Domme in #subs_for_Dommes who said She had taken in a sub who was a meth addict and cured him of his addiction, so I tend to think this is possible.

To the Dominants out there: if a sub approaches you who has a drug addiction and s/he is determined to get clean, but feels s/he needs the strict control of a Dominant to do so, would you consider taking them? Provided s/he fits all your other criteria for a sub.

Has anyone here ever dealt with such a situation? And if so, how did they do it? How did they deal with the initial withdrawal, and did the sub ever relapse?

greetings Youngstownsubm

the simply answer is 99.9% of the time - NO. (and i didn't say 100% cause there are always the exceptions to the rule. and i think alot depends on how addicted and to what. are we talkin 25 years of shootin heroin? 5 years of smokin pot? 12 years of snortin coke? what? as i talk about below, i know from experience about addiction. for example, it was significantly harder to stop smokin coke then to stop shooting it. go figure eh?

i speak from experience. i am a recovering drug addict. i have not touched drugs since December 1989 and i believe i am therefore qualified to answer.

generally speaking ~~ (a) the person has to want to quit with all their heart and even then it's fuckin hard; (b) they have to have folks to talk to that truly and honestly understand what they are going through; (c) there has to be rewards to help a person have goals; (d) they're gonna have to learn all over again how to have fun without drugs (and believe me, this is a lot harder than it sounds); (e) most folks quit growing up emotionally when they turn to drugs and therefore will not be as mature when they quit as they "should" be so you'll have to deal with that; (f) drug users are notoriously self-centered no matter what they want/think/desire so you'll have to deal with that. and the list goes on and on.

a side effect most folks don't know or think about - if they've been using mind altering drugs for any length of time they've messed up their brain chemicals. it is very common that eventuall after they get clean they will suffer from things such as mild chronic depression. the person will have to accept that and accept they will most likely need medication the rest of their life. that's another thing you will have to deal with also.

perhaps it could happen - but i have to tell you, i know from personal experience that any ONE person could not have done it for me.

now, if you're thinking about being their support while they work a program, rehab, AA, NA, something like that. GREAT -- they'll need that and it'll help immensely. but that's not, i believe, what you asked in your OP.

well wishes to you,
gemmie

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 9/24/2008 9:15:40 AM >

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(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:26:51 AM

WilliamAugustine

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Joined: 8/26/2008
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Some points:

Depends on the drug. Depends on the person (ie all the above as far as how serious the person is about giving up the addiction). From my own experience giving up nicotine it is something that is more effective from self discipline rather than something enforced from another...

An addict needs to be completely free of the environment they frequented as a user. That mostly means other users.

A controlled wind down is more effective than cold turkey. Is the addict aware of what will happen when they come off the drug IE have they been through withdrawal before?

Most overdose deaths (of heroin, not sure if this is relevant) occur when a user has been clean and has lost resistance to the drug. Merely injecting in a novel location can lower the body's resistance to the drug because the break in 'ritual' of using stops the user's inbuilt drug resistance.

The most effective piece of advice to give during mental anguish, be it high anxiety or depression or drug withdrawal, trauma whatever, is: THIS WILL PASS. IT WILL END. IT IS A TEMPORARY STATE OF BEING, IT CAN BE SAT OUT.

Never trust a junkie.

(in reply to kolekorin)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:29:41 AM

sunshinedreams

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I totaly agree with gemmie. Maybe because I have a similar background. Friends, family, lover, even the law cannot help an addict if they are not ready, willing, and COMMITTED to getting clean. Learning how to live life without drugs is a real kick in the ass if you were high for enough years. Having people who care is important, but someone who really understands addiction is invaluable.

And starting a brand new relationship while first getting clean? I don't even want to go there.....

(in reply to justgemmie)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:30:29 AM

Kizanth

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I'm going to have to say a vehement NO myself.

While a Dominant performs a particular role in a slave/submissive's life, unless that Dom is also a drug counselor or trained psychologist.

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:41:52 AM

MrRodgers

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If a master (not a 'dom') has a 24/7 live-in slave he can impose an internal rehab. In 30 days the slave should be clean and without physical urges. The personal care for the slave in the master's follow-up is what's most important in remaining clean.

(in reply to justgemmie)

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 9:57:57 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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What you have here is a hope that a Dominant might be some source of a Higher Power. For purpose and program, I can promise you that this can not work. You must find something else than the frailty of a human being. While a Dominant can be a power greater than yourself, they can not be the ultimate power.

If you are serious, I will ask you to consider number three. It says "made a decision." Believe it or not, that's an action. An action on your part. It can not be based on something that someone else ordered you to do. It must come from you.

I think I have said too much here already.

There are those of us here who know. Seek them out.

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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:26:26 AM

StrangerThan

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Like most are saying, they must want help, need it, and be ready to accept it if anyone is going to make a difference, Dominant or not. Part of the problem will be though that both sides need to make a committment, meaning the submissive and the Dominant, and the Dominant doing so in realization that should anything go wrong under his/her care, they are the responsible party. Being Dominant doesn't release that person from other responsibilities in life, like work, family, any of the myriad of other things that take up lives. Depending on the severity of the drug problem, it could easily mean being available 24/7 for a while. Dealing with this kind of issue also goes beyond lifestyle choices into the realm of legal ramifications if something indeed does go wrong.

Skilled? Skilled at what? I may throw a whip better than most, be able to bend my submissive to my will, enjoy all the interplay between us and have a home that looks like I inherited it from the Marque de Sade. That doesn't make me skilled at walking someone through withdrawal, nor does it give me access to the prescription drugs used to get folks off the bad ones. I think a skilled Dominant would be more of a help as an addition to a drug program, not in replacement of. There are organizations trained and developed for this very purpose all over the country. Why would you put it in the hands of anyone else?

(in reply to youngstownsubm)

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