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RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:29:54 AM   
BiteGirl


Posts: 293
Joined: 4/27/2006
Status: offline 		but what happens when the two people part ways? 

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:38:57 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		No I do not have the skill set required to guide someone through rehab. I believe that they need to seek professional counseling. I think that a Dominant who does this that is not a drug counselor is taking a great risk with not only themselves but their sub as well. I have to be responsible with my submissive and to me this is not being responsible.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:40:38 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: youngstownsubm

I made a thread a while back asking if people would take subs who were recreational drug users. This thread is different--it's about whether or not a Dominant can help rehabilitate a serious drug addict. For subs with serious drug problems, can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to cure them of it?

I talked with a Domme in #subs_for_Dommes who said She had taken in a sub who was a meth addict and cured him of his addiction, so I tend to think this is possible.

To the Dominants out there: if a sub approaches you who has a drug addiction and s/he is determined to get clean, but feels s/he needs the strict control of a Dominant to do so, would you consider taking them? Provided s/he fits all your other criteria for a sub.

Has anyone here ever dealt with such a situation? And if so, how did they do it? How did they deal with the initial withdrawal, and did the sub ever relapse?



In a word not in this lifetime. first and formost they need professional help.  seondly they need professional help and finally they need professional  help!

Any quesitons?  BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:45:21 AM   
saltydom


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/21/2008
Status: offline 		Does anybody here think that a "skilled dominant" could cure a sub of schizophrenia? or cancer? or diabetes? Cmon, get real. I've been a certified drug counselor for 12 years and while I can accept there's more than one way to get clean, I could'nt reccommend BDSM as a  treatment modality. A D/s relationship as  a form of drug treatment is probably a recipe for disaster, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that "couples", or close family members, cannot be objective about the treatment.There's good reasons why therapists (and drug counselors btw) get in big trouble for having intimate relationships with their patients. People who think they know how to treat addicts but have no training background or experience in the matter could cause much more harm than good. If a sub wants to prove themselves by staying clean for a year first than you might have something. I'm not doubting that the aforementioned situation may have worked but if you ascribe to the disease model of addiction and accept that it is a chronic illness with a high probabilty of relapse than the proof of how well the D/s relationship worked would be if the sub stayed drug free, or at least drug related problem free ( I am a harm reductionist) for a long , long , time.
PS Roleplaying Drug counselor manipulating an addicted patient sounds totally hot. I'm a sick boy and there is no cure for that.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 10:45:52 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: youngstownsubm

For subs with serious drug problems, can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to cure them of it?

I talked with a Domme in #subs_for_Dommes who said She had taken in a sub who was a meth addict and cured him of his addiction, so I tend to think this is possible.




Exactly the same chances as a 'skilled Dominant' curing cancer.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 11:37:19 AM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

If a master (not a 'dom') has a 24/7 live-in slave he can impose an internal rehab. In 30 days the slave should be clean and without physical urges. The personal care for the slave in the master's follow-up is what's most important in remaining clean.


greetings MrRodgers

i am sorry but, in my opinion, You are dead wrong.  do You have first hand knowledge, from either side of the issue, to share?

yes, in 30 days the physical cravings may be diminished (in my personal experience and from knowing hundreds of folks kicking the habit through NA and AA, they're never gone all the time.  if they were, no one would ever relapse).  but the physical is only the tip of the iceberg.

there are reasons why a person turns to drugs in the first place.  ok, so the sub's clean.  have the underlying issues of using in the first place been dealt with well and healthily?  in addition, the psychological damage and conditioning is NOT all that easy to take care of by just any joe blow.  why do you think AA and NA are still around?  because the layman generally just cannot do it.  why do you think folks relapse?  cause it's unbelievably hard to stay clean sometimes, whether it's 30 days down the road, or 6 months or 5 years.

so great, a Dominant has helped the sub get clean, and helped keep the sub clean while they're together.  however, let's look at reality here.  50 percent of the relationships (and that's a low estimate in my opinion) aren't gonna stay together.  what happens when the sub's on his/her own and has learned no coping skills other than her Dominant??? right back in the street gettin high.

my apologies if this post was offensive, but i have Extremely Strong feelings about this subject.

well wishes,
gemmie

PS - edited to add for those who might have a problem and are reading this thread.  the cravings do go away eventually, but they may sometimes re-appear for this reason or that reason.  but eventually it's not constant and a happy life is to be had.  you just have to be careful that if, any time down the road you want to use, USE the coping skills you learned getting clean - so you can stay clean  :)

< Message edited by justgemmie -- 9/24/2008 11:48:09 AM >

_____________________________

"Being a Master to somebody or a slave to somebody is a relationship bound status. Without the relationship the status does not exist and all that is there is the potential or the natural inclination to fulfill such a status in the future." ~ ishyB

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 11:41:18 AM   
JewAndCelt


Posts: 110
Joined: 8/23/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justgemmie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

If a master (not a 'dom') has a 24/7 live-in slave he can impose an internal rehab. In 30 days the slave should be clean and without physical urges. The personal care for the slave in the master's follow-up is what's most important in remaining clean.


greetings MrRodgers

i am sorry but, in my opinion, You are dead wrong.  do You have first hand knowledge, from either side of the issue, to share?

yes, in 30 days the physical cravings may be diminished (in my personal experience and from knowing hundreds of folks kicking the habit through NA and AA, they're never gone all the time.  if they were, no one would ever relapse).  but the physical is only the tip of the iceberg.

there are reasons why a person turns to drugs in the first place.  ok, so the sub's clean.  the psychological damage and conditioning is NOT all that easy to take care of by just any joe blow.  why do you think AA and NA are still around?  because the layman generally just cannot do it.  why do you think folks relapse?  cause it's unbelievably hard to stay clean sometimes, whether it's 30 days down the road, or 6 months or 5 years.

so great, a Dominant has helped the sub get clean, and helped keep the sub clean while they're together.  however, let's look at reality here.  50 percent of the relationships (and that's a low estimate in my opinion) aren't gonna stay together.  what happens when the sub's on his/her own and has learned no coping skills other than her Dominant??? right back in the street gettin high.




Very well said gemmie!
You have to want to stop for YOU not anyone else.

_her

_____________________________

Maturity is patience. Mastery is nine times patience.


!!!!!!כי לא נולד הבן זונה שיעצור את ישראל

(in reply to justgemmie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 11:54:15 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: saltydom

Does anybody here think that a "skilled dominant" could cure a sub of schizophrenia? or cancer? or diabetes? Cmon, get real. I've been a certified drug counselor for 12 years and while I can accept there's more than one way to get clean, I could'nt reccommend BDSM as a  treatment modality. A D/s relationship as  a form of drug treatment is probably a recipe for disaster, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that "couples", or close family members, cannot be objective about the treatment.There's good reasons why therapists (and drug counselors btw) get in big trouble for having intimate relationships with their patients. People who think they know how to treat addicts but have no training background or experience in the matter could cause much more harm than good. If a sub wants to prove themselves by staying clean for a year first than you might have something. I'm not doubting that the aforementioned situation may have worked but if you ascribe to the disease model of addiction and accept that it is a chronic illness with a high probabilty of relapse than the proof of how well the D/s relationship worked would be if the sub stayed drug free, or at least drug related problem free ( I am a harm reductionist) for a long , long , time.


Having also been a certified drug counselor I will have to agree with this post....and all of the others that have said no. I would also like to mention to the OP that drug addiction and alcoholism are not "curable" conditions. It is a lifelong process.

A partner who is supportive in an addicts struggle to gain and maintain sobriety is a wonderful thing....but I see absolutely no reason why their orientation as dominant or submissive would have any impact on the outcome.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to saltydom)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 11:59:42 AM   
justgemmie


Posts: 246
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

A partner who is supportive in an addicts struggle to gain and maintain sobriety is a wonderful thing....but I see absolutely no reason why their orientation as dominant or submissive would have any impact on the outcome.


greetings erin

good point!

gemmie

_____________________________

"Being a Master to somebody or a slave to somebody is a relationship bound status. Without the relationship the status does not exist and all that is there is the potential or the natural inclination to fulfill such a status in the future." ~ ishyB

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 12:00:24 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		The idea is quite romantic...Oh Sir i am such a mess please will you sort me out? and the power rush of being in controll and sorting the poor person out and shaping them up: true Mastery...but i think most often, really almost always the addiction will win and the Dom and the sad addict will lose with all the heartbreak and mess that goes with that...
On the other hand, had my Master forbidden me to smoke years back it would have saved us so much money really...in the end i stopped because i got pregnant...not because of me, not because i wanted to...because of my baby and because of what my Master would think of me if i smoked while pregnant.... I did not start again because now Master will not allow me, i still crave cigs at times. If it was just me i might just light up again.

(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 12:59:08 PM   
youngstownsubm


Posts: 33
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies everyone. I respect your opinions, but allow me to tell my story.

I might as well come out and say it: I have a drug problem. I have tried counselling, NA meetings, and all sorts of other things, but in the end none of them have worked for me... and without boring you with the details, I think the reason is pride.

I passed up a lot of opportunities to get clean with professional help because of this pride... but now I'm without health insurance. Good professional help does not seem like an option to me. However, I have also had a submissive side of me as long as I can remember. This side of me seems to be the only thing that can break through this wall of pride I have. When I am submissive I don't care about me at all; only my partner and making Her happy.

I had a Domme for a long time whom I hid my drug problems from (not intentionally; it was because I was also hiding them from myself). I've always been very functional; I hold a job and just graduated college. But She thought I was a good sub, and I'm thinking... maybe this is my only hope. I don't believe in God or a Higher Power, but I do believe in the power of Dominance and submission. Submission to a Dominant Woman is the only thing that can make me break through the wall of pride surrounding me. If a Domme who owned me, loved me and cared for me told me to quit drugs, and helped counsel me through it, I'd do it in a second. I'm not physically addicted; I just have a problem.

This isn't a pipedream... I've been talking about it with an online Domme friend of mine whom I've known for years now. I've never done online play before, but this just might work. When I'm resistant to counseling and almost all means of persuasion... this might be my only hope.

She would probably also require I see a counselor, so it wouldn't just be with Her help. But She would be there to make sure I stick to being clean.

< Message edited by youngstownsubm -- 9/24/2008 1:06:55 PM >

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:21:19 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		You are trying to lay the responsibility for your sobriety on someone else. YOU are your ONLY hope.

I spent 7 years as a certified substance abuse counselor. My ex was a recovering alcoholic. I was the person he was closest to in the world. I was the person he most valued, certainly more than he valued himself. I supported him in every possible way I could and stood at his side to battle those demons. Last month he hung himself.

Don't pass that buck onto anyone. It's not fair. Go get yourself help. Check yourself into a treatment center. A LONG term treatment center. The Salvation Army has a year long inpatient program that's FREE. They don't have it everywhere but they do have it. There are many treatment centers who take people on sliding scales, there are many who take indigent patients. The help is there if you want it bad enough to look for it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:39:00 PM   
sunshinedreams


Posts: 181
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		To the OP:  Forget about the term 'higher power' and try 'power greater than yourself'. Ok, now you say you want to quit but can't seem to right? Then that would mean to some extent you have already given your life over to something beyond you own power (drugs). Now the whole thing is you gotta find something more powerful than that, and I can tell you from personal experience that one person is not strong enough, and is also quite human and fallible. Why would you hang on to your pride in this? Believe me, you will have much more to be proud of when you go through the difficult times without having the drugs.
BTW, I was also a functional addict (job, ums, money, nice things) but this side of it is really great. Just remember a problem is a problem no matter what. Treating it with a proper solution is always the best bet.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:45:36 PM   
QueenIsis


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/14/2008
Status: offline 		I would NEVER, I repeat, NEVER take on a drug addict, and it's a hard limit with me, punishable by ending of the relationship. My ex-husband was addicted to crack - which is WHY he's the "ex" - and, try as he might, he just couldn't stop. Granted, I was not his Domme, but I am not trying to be bothered, not after 16+ years of trauma and unhappiness with a different addict.  

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:47:34 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: youngstownsubm

Thanks for the replies everyone. I respect your opinions, but allow me to tell my story.

I might as well come out and say it: I have a drug problem. I have tried counselling, NA meetings, and all sorts of other things, but in the end none of them have worked for me... and without boring you with the details, I think the reason is pride.

I passed up a lot of opportunities to get clean with professional help because of this pride... but now I'm without health insurance. Good professional help does not seem like an option to me. However, I have also had a submissive side of me as long as I can remember. This side of me seems to be the only thing that can break through this wall of pride I have. When I am submissive I don't care about me at all; only my partner and making Her happy.

I had a Domme for a long time whom I hid my drug problems from (not intentionally; it was because I was also hiding them from myself). I've always been very functional; I hold a job and just graduated college. But She thought I was a good sub, and I'm thinking... maybe this is my only hope. I don't believe in God or a Higher Power, but I do believe in the power of Dominance and submission. Submission to a Dominant Woman is the only thing that can make me break through the wall of pride surrounding me. If a Domme who owned me, loved me and cared for me told me to quit drugs, and helped counsel me through it, I'd do it in a second. I'm not physically addicted; I just have a problem.

This isn't a pipedream... I've been talking about it with an online Domme friend of mine whom I've known for years now. I've never done online play before, but this just might work. When I'm resistant to counseling and almost all means of persuasion... this might be my only hope.

She would probably also require I see a counselor, so it wouldn't just be with Her help. But She would be there to make sure I stick to being clean.

Well, it's obvious, that after reading THIS here, that the OP never really wanted advice at all...he just wanted validation for being able to do things the way he wants to do things.

Oh well. I give you less than a month on your so-called Dominant rehab plan.

Get ready for the crash and burn.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to youngstownsubm)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:48:13 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline 		Good Afternoon,

I cannot speak for all, i cannot speak even for some, the only person i can really speak for is me. I am a recovering alcoholic, I am 26 years old and I have been sober for almost one year 4 months, not a long time in the grand scheme of things but a very long time for me.

I have been interested in BDSM since before i even knew what it was and was able to put a name to it, and started playing/learning properly at the age of 16 although I didnt become involved in my first real life relationship until I was 18 as although i was above the age of consent here the age level for that sort of thing is 18. I drank heavily from the age of about 16/17 and my drinknig escalated rapidly from about 19 years old onwards. I, like you was "functioning" I held a steady job, stableish relationships although they rarely lasted (once people got to close i'd sabotage it in some way) and i spent many years denying there was any problem. I realised i was alcoholic from about 23 years old but would still deny it with all the breath i had.

I have had Dom's try to stop my drinking, control my drinking, control intake, timing, place, types of drinks and to be honest although i wanted the Doms control i didnt want to stop drinking, i was happy as I was and yes alcohol caused me many many problems but it was also my best friend.

I am a girl who prides herself on her honesty, i never lied aside from when it came to drink... it wasnt a concious thing, and it wasnt for lac of love of the man or for lack of desire to please and there are no excuses for it but it happened. i dran because at that point i couldnt stop and no man or woman on this planet could have made me, subconciously i wanted help, wanted to moderate, limit but DIDNT want to stop and i used these Dominants control as almost a way to carry on drinking.... after all they said i could have one..or two...or three. Rather than lie directly i was sneay, i would have one glass of wine but it would be the glass that held the entire bottle, i found every concievable way and mean i could to drink and to justify it, i managed to twist things around so that i was always right and that drinking was ok because in my alcoholic mind it was the right thing to do.

I admit now I was totally insane, my thinking skewed and crazy, I did insane things and the blackouts got worse, memory gaps, shakes, panic attacks etc etc and still I didnt stop.

I look back now and i believe that I was wrong to ask my Dominante for help to control my drinking and I believe that it put them in an immensly unfair position because no matter how much they wanted to help me, the only person that could help me was myself. yes they can guide and support but giving up an addiction really isnt as simple as just say no and not touching it again, there is a lot of psychological work that has to be done and a lot of soul searching to boot.

I had to wait until I was ready to quit, really, trully ready and until that point no-one could do it for me, I had to do it for myself. When i started my recovery i didnt believe in a higher power either and if i had believe i would have hated it/them/him because in my mind "God" was responsible for all my problems, pain, sorrow - I have come to believe in a higher power - key words "came to believe" it didnt happen overnight, i didnt wake up one morning recovered, im still recovering -  and there is no instant transformation or easy ticket to it, its something that only YOU can do for yourself, no man or woman can do it for you.

Please forgive my rambling, I speak from the heart and can only speak from my own experiences but I can say 100% that the only person that could have gotton me sober is me. I also speak from the experience of having to explain to an ex Dominant who's control DIDNT get me sober how there was no way they could hasve and it was unfair of me to lay that on them, I had to try and explain how it is not a failure as a Dom or as a Man that he couldnt "fix" me and to deal with the emotional carnage that i have caused during my drinking years.

diamond

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:52:10 PM   
VivaciousSub


Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Diamond,

That is a beautiful recounting of events and touched me deeply. I sent you something on the other side about it as well.

Congratulations on all your hard work! *hugs*


_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to amaidiamond)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 1:57:58 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub

Diamond,

That is a beautiful recounting of events and touched me deeply. I sent you something on the other side about it as well.

Congratulations on all your hard work! *hugs*



Thank you very much though I wasn't compliment fishing :) I just want to try and help and indeed, part of what keeps me sober is reaching out. Just realised my original post was full of typos - I think I got a little enthused!

diamond

(in reply to VivaciousSub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 2:07:37 PM   
sunshinedreams


Posts: 181
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		Well, weather or not the OP is ready to hear, you Group Of Drunks have made my day!

(in reply to amaidiamond)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Can a skilled Dominant be sufficient to help a sub ... - 9/24/2008 2:18:09 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinedreams

Well, weather or not the OP is ready to hear, you Group Of Drunks have made my day!


LOL well we're going in a Good Orderly Direction

(in reply to sunshinedreams)
Profile   Post #: 40
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