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RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 4:50:23 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Tim,
Are you suggesting that Bush is responsible for the attacks that occured less than 8 months after he took office?  How about the Enron fiasco?  The Dot Com bust?

Let me get to the funny part of your post though.  Are you suggesting that Obama is better prepared for a debate on foreign policy and national security than McCain?  Or any debate for that matter?  From my following this topic just a bit, it occurs to me that McCain has been almost begging for debates for the better part of 4 months.  IF somebody is suggesting that his current position is an attempt to duck the debate, I can only laugh.

Why is it not possible to just assume that both of the candidates (who are sitting senators) could set aside the partisan campaign rhetoric for a couple of days? While they both as flag bearers for their parties, rally both sides to get something done in a bipartisan manner for the country.  Then again I suspect the cynics see winning the White House as the most important thing. 


Eight months is 17% of his elected term.  I know he's not too bright but you would think even he could have figured out Bin-Laden was a major concern after 8 months in office and a briefing report stating Bin-Laden was determined to strike inside the U.S..  Not to mention the fact Bin-Laden wasn't exactly unknown up until that point, except maybe to our ever insightful President.

As far as Obama, you can draw your own conclusions.  He wants to move forward with the debate, McCain doesn't.  Shall we speculate why?

McCain spent all his career promoting deregulation, of course until this crisis hit, now he wants us to believe he's a populist reformer who is going to regulate all the greed on Wall Street ( a paraphrase of his own words).

Now he is claiming his vast experience on economic matters is needed in Washington, from the same guy who is on record claiming he doesn't understand economics.
Economist's View: McCain: "Economics is Something That I've Really ...
John McCain says that when it comes to economics he will have to rely upon others
because, though he's tried, he doesn't really get it himself: ...
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/12/mccain-economic.html  The only thing cynical here is McCain trying to use this crisis for political advantage.  He's losing ground in the polls because of the situation.  He knows he's in a bad position because economics is not his strong suit, and he also knows he'll be put on the defensive because of his history of supporting deregulation, not to mention having to explain his most recent flip-flop suddenly being a great proponent of regulation. What better way than to proclaim you need to concentrate on the crisis and give the appearance of a noble move while enjoying the benefits of letting the controversy resolve itself before you actually have to explain your positions?  

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/24/2008 5:15:57 PM >

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 4:53:13 PM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Thadius,
There is a differenc in format between debate(which they aren't) and town hall meetings....McCain excels at the folksy sort of town hall meetings. As for Bush....personally I do think he kidnapped the Lindburgh baby, and was on the grassy knoll. He also doubles as the tooth fairey and was once seen in an Easter Bunny suit.
Now for everything since he took office...(My Opinion)...He may very well be the biggest idiot that ever served as President and that is saying something when compared to Hoover, Grant, (My personal favorite General piss poor Pres.) The first Johnson(not LBJ for those non history types) but that is our boy George! As for McCain, amazingly AFTER Obama calls him first he basically pulled a fast one in announcing his suspension of the campaign.I think he made himself look las though he can't do more than one thing at a time no matter his intentions. Hey, if he wants to go help Georgie Boy pass this bill....go Johnny go....get real close to Ol' Dub....that ought help your campaign...



That is the claim of the Obama campaign, that they called first.  Just like in his speech today he claimed that McCain came around to accepting the proposals he put forth.  He didn't mention that the proposals he put forth came out 2 days after McCain stated which points were important...
The independant oversight, etc...

Just keeping things in perspective.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 4:53:24 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I agree all other political anythings should stop until this is resolved. Personally, it doesn't matter if it's a "calculated" move or not, it is the right one, and if one side refuses I will vote for the other. So, Obama better get his ass to washington.

I wrote for the first time this year, all my elected federal politicians, about my views on this crap as well. I don't write often, but it is about 2 pages long, and clearly spelled out. I'm going to get the vote tally, and thoroughly do my best to remove any of them that voted poorly, which means unless this POS offered up thus far is highly modified, and no fucking non-related add-ons. Politicians and people need to seriously get it in there head, that this is the one time for sure that it gets done right, and fairly, or all hell is going to break lose.

The two potential candidates really need to think about there positions here as well. As this decision could cost them millions of votes, and or haunt them for the rest of there. careers. It's Adult Time, put the political books down. People are judging by how unpolitical they can be now.



On one hand you say you don't care if it is a calculated move and on the other you say it is time to judge how unpolitical they can be.

If it's a calculated move then it is nothing but political.

Oh, boy I'm in no mood to argue over nothings.

Simply put, I don't know whether it is or isn't politically motivated, therefore I judge it based on if it makes sense to me. It makes sense, therefore I'll judge Obama in this case negatively if he doesn't take what would seem to me to be a reasonable action.

700 billion versus, stupid debate that could be rescheduled, oh I don't know.



(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 4:55:47 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		From what I have read, McCain suggested that the debate be postponed til after Friday.  It is on his strong suit, so being afraid doesn't seem to fit.

I suggest it is so that the 2 candidates could actually focus on helping get some sort of rescue legislation put through, before Pelosi and Reid decide it's time to go on vacation again.

Just a hunch.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 4:57:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You're missing the point. McCain and Obama rushing into Washington will change things? How, exactly? Do you imagine they aren't already in constant contact with their political leadership in Congress?

It's a stunt. A silly one at that.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:01:49 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I suggest it is so that the 2 candidates could actually focus on helping get some sort of rescue legislation put through, before Pelosi and Reid decide it's time to go on vacation again.


Thadius,

This is beneath you. Neither has suggested anything of the sort.

Both have suggested that maybe being railroaded into spending billions on the basis of an emergency after (a Republican) Congress rubber stamped emergency legislation that got us into Iraq and the Patriot Act deserves a closer look.

Do you imagine that legislation passing next week instead of this week will collapse the economy?

And again, seems to me someone who wants to be president should be capable of handling more than one thing at a time.

It's a stunt. And a silly one.

Tim

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:04:59 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou



Oh, boy I'm in no mood to argue over nothings.

Simply put, I don't know whether it is or isn't politically motivated, therefore I judge it based on if it makes sense to me. It makes sense, therefore I'll judge Obama in this case negatively if he doesn't take what would seem to me to be a reasonable action.

700 billion versus, stupid debate that could be rescheduled, oh I don't know.





I don't see it as nothing.  I see it as grandstanding to gain a political advantage.  If McCain is truly sincere he certainly handled it in a piss-poor fashion.

Tell me also, what exactly he can solve by suspending his campaign as opposed to continuing it?  He can get all the information he needs on the hearings, make his views known, and still return for the vote. 

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:05:31 PM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

{the debate...}  It is on his strong suit, so being afraid doesn't seem to fit.



....i thought it was on foreign policy? It is possible that we may be defining a well thought out foreign policy differently......

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:09:09 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Of course you think that way....shocker. Here is an idea. Work on the fucking economy and have the debate? Or is that too much for McOld? Seriously it is not a big deal, is it really? Is he that infirm?    

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I agree all other political anythings should stop until this is resolved. Personally, it doesn't matter if it's a "calculated" move or not, it is the right one, and if one side refuses I will vote for the other. So, Obama better get his ass to washington.

I wrote for the first time this year, all my elected federal politicians, about my views on this crap as well. I don't write often, but it is about 2 pages long, and clearly spelled out. I'm going to get the vote tally, and thoroughly do my best to remove any of them that voted poorly, which means unless this POS offered up thus far is highly modified, and no fucking non-related add-ons. Politicians and people need to seriously get it in there head, that this is the one time for sure that it gets done right, and fairly, or all hell is going to break lose.

The two potential candidates really need to think about there positions here as well. As this decision could cost them millions of votes, and or haunt them for the rest of there. careers. It's Adult Time, put the political books down. People are judging by how unpolitical they can be now.



On one hand you say you don't care if it is a calculated move and on the other you say it is time to judge how unpolitical they can be.

If it's a calculated move then it is nothing but political.

Oh, boy I'm in no mood to argue over nothings.

Simply put, I don't know whether it is or isn't politically motivated, therefore I judge it based on if it makes sense to me. It makes sense, therefore I'll judge Obama in this case negatively if he doesn't take what would seem to me to be a reasonable action.

700 billion versus, stupid debate that could be rescheduled, oh I don't know.





_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:12:30 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You're missing the point. McCain and Obama rushing into Washington will change things? How, exactly? Do you imagine they aren't already in constant contact with their political leadership in Congress?

It's a stunt. A silly one at that.


LOL, I want everyone to be there put as much input into it as possible. So, there is no excuses afterwards, like after every other pie in their face legislation that has passed. "I was for it, before I was against it", crap. Or we didn't understand, or have all the facts, bullshit that they like to pull.

Anyway, it's ridiculous, not to just reschedule it, what does it hurt? I've watched about 70-80% of the debates so far, and they are about as useless as watching the new episode of Heroes(which I watch). Anyway, I want everyone's asses there, I want everyone's opinion, because at the end of the day, when it passes and I'm sure some form of it will, I want all of them to be held accountable, zero excuses.

What are we going to learn in the debate anyway that is so critical we can't learn until next week. McCain is war nuts? Obama is a globalist? LOL. We already know the path of their foreign policy.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:16:09 PM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I suggest it is so that the 2 candidates could actually focus on helping get some sort of rescue legislation put through, before Pelosi and Reid decide it's time to go on vacation again.


Thadius,

This is beneath you. Neither has suggested anything of the sort.

Both have suggested that maybe being railroaded into spending billions on the basis of an emergency after (a Republican) Congress rubber stamped emergency legislation that got us into Iraq and the Patriot Act deserves a closer look.

Do you imagine that legislation passing next week instead of this week will collapse the economy?

And again, seems to me someone who wants to be president should be capable of handling more than one thing at a time.

It's a stunt. And a silly one.

Tim

Tim,

I simply point to just over a week ago.  On Friday, it would have taken $25 Billion to solve the AIG credit crunch, instead it was postponed until the following Monday and cost over $80 Billion, because of markdowns in and re ratings.  We do have some time, however that time can and will run out if it is postponed.  There are also important tax implications to take into account, as many places begin the new fiscal year a week from today. 

My dislike of Pelosi and Reid's behaviors are beneath me?  Nah, I think it is befitting me.  I am still pissed at them for taking the 5 week vacation, in light of the oil prices and gas prices going insane, with these current issues on the horizon (as you suggested they have not just popped up from nowhere).  I feel perfectly justified in commenting on the fact that the 5 week vacation was more important than dealing with these issues.

Being honest about my feelings of the current leadership in DC seems perfectly in line.  Just like I am pissed at Bush for thinking that his crony should get a blank check and a "magic wand" to fix any and all of this.

Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:18:54 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Of course you think that way....shocker. Here is an idea. Work on the fucking economy and have the debate? Or is that too much for McOld? Seriously it is not a big deal, is it really? Is he that infirm?   


Do you think I support McCain or something. The whole shocker comment has me perplexed.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:30:58 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Looks like the stunt is already starting to backfire.

First of all, tune into Letterman tonight. Apparently, McCain told Dave he couldn't make it to his scheduled taping, because he was on the way to the airport to fly back to Washington... Unfortunately for McCain, he was actually in the middle of an interview with Katie Kouric... (who also works for CBS) down the hall! So, Dave, in front of his audiance as he was taping, turned on the LIVE FEED and began riffing on him. It's on tonight! (and will be living on forever on YouTube)

Now onto the real backfires:

1) The debate comissioner has denied McCain's request to "postpone" the debates. They have scheduled four debates, and they will have four debates.McCain can either show the hell up, or Obama gets an hour of uninterrupted network air time, opposing an empty chair.

2) Barney Frank, chair of the finance comission, is on record as saying, "This package will pass, with or without input from the candidates." He is optomistic that the package will be passed in the next few days, only it WILL have oversight, it WILL have help for homeowners, and it WILL NOT have a priviatization of the profits, and a socialization of the losses. "This is just McCain, trying to take credit for something that's going to happen, if he is here, or not. He's not even on any of the comitties that are drafting this legislation!"

3) It turns out the McCain hasn't bothered to cancel 75% of his campaign calander for the next few days. Tomorrow, he spends time with her Ladyship Rothchild. (Remember her? The one who called all those "bitter" folks as "rednecks?"

4) Dropping in the polls like a rock! Even the FOX news polls, (the most slanted you can find) now show McCain at LEAST 6 points behind Obama.

As some of the talking heads have said, "A Hail Mary either works, or it doesn't... looks like this one isn't going to do McCain any good."





(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:43:11 PM   
MistressNew


Posts: 112
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		Say... Isn't McCain the same guy who missed 412 of 643 votes taken this year, more than any other Senator?  Odd that now he wants to go to work...

Of course, only a cynic would notice that this would 1. make him look like he cares, even as he continues to push deregulation schemes and 2. postpone the VP debate, allowing Palin's total ignorance a little quieter.

No. McCain is doing this for the good of the common man.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:56:12 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Oh, like anyone's going to be on Capitol Hill at 9PM EDT Friday night anyway. Sure.

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"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 5:59:30 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

Say... Isn't McCain the same guy who missed 412 of 643 votes taken this year, more than any other Senator?  Odd that now he wants to go to work...

Of course, only a cynic would notice that this would 1. make him look like he cares, even as he continues to push deregulation schemes and 2. postpone the VP debate, allowing Palin's total ignorance a little quieter.

No. McCain is doing this for the good of the common man.



Nobody suggested postponing the VP debates...

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 6:23:36 PM   
hoodie


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Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You're missing the point. McCain and Obama rushing into Washington will change things? How, exactly? Do you imagine they aren't already in constant contact with their political leadership in Congress?

It's a stunt. A silly one at that.


Like it or not, McCain AND Obama are the go to guys, as far as leadership to the respective parties.  Where they stand, is where many of their fellow party members in Congress will stand also. 

No one in Congress, especially the Democrats, and THANKFULLY a large number of House Republicans want to give Paulson a "blank check".  Both candidates see the need to restrict the pay of the CEO's of these companies, and they are rejecting, again thankfully, Paulson's "hellfire and brimstone...they won't participate if they're golden parachutes are cut" rhetoric. 

I believe that McCain probably thought, prior to Bush inviting both candidates to the White House for the meeting on Thursday, that by suspending the campaign, putting off the debate on foreign policy, a subject that isn't even a blip on the radar of most American's right now, that he would do what he hasn't done since April.  We forget these guys are STILL active in the United States Senate.  Country First, regardless of politics, is where their focus should be. 


_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 6:46:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Their focus is clearly on this issue, despite their absence from Washington these days.

In America, we have phones.

(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 6:49:06 PM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Their focus is clearly on this issue, despite their absence from Washington these days.

In America, we have phones.


yeah?  so does that mean because we have phones no one has to show up at work?



_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: McCain suspends campaign temporarily... - 9/24/2008 6:50:37 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Their focus is clearly on this issue, despite their absence from Washington these days.

In America, we have phones.


Well both of 'em will be in DC tomorrow.  Mayhaps, they will both do something to earn part of the $160k a year they are being paid.

One can only hope.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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