RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy

RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 12:59:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Our system is no more complicated or bureaucratic than any other western country. Thing is... nobody can make these assertions until they've confronted the Beast - the bureaucracy is crazy, and I bet you that it costs far, far more money than it's worth to run it.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:08:58 PM)
quote: Thing is... nobody can make these assertions until they've confronted the Beast - the bureaucracy is crazy, and I bet you that it costs far, far more money than it's worth to run it. I'm not arguing that it's not huge. Every Federal agency is huge and overly-complicated, and I am not against reforms. It's still not an excuse to break the law, which the author of Cloudboy's link was trying to do.

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: The fact is that illegal immigrants do some of the hardest lowest paid work in the nation Yeah and they drive wages down as a result. Let's not forget that we don't know who any of these people are. Violent criminals do come into the country. If you don't believe that, take a good look at El Salvador. The country has had to deal with all the MS-13 gangsters we've deported. I am all for allowing people to come here for better opportunity, but they have to obey the law. Our system is no more complicated or bureaucratic than any other western country. Slaveboy I do believe you have drunk the kool-aid...put the cup down and slowly back away from the table....when was the last time an illegal immigrant took your job...the first time? anytime? Have your wages ever been driven down by the presence of an illegal and if so.....report the employer! Why is enforcement always focused on the low-end...arrest the one's benifiting the most when laws are broken,,,not the poor fools busting their ass's trying to feed a family but the factory owner trying to maximise profits by paying below market wages to illegals...

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:14:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: The fact is that illegal immigrants do some of the hardest lowest paid work in the nation Yeah and they drive wages down as a result. Let's not forget that we don't know who any of these people are. Violent criminals do come into the country. If you don't believe that, take a good look at El Salvador. The country has had to deal with all the MS-13 gangsters we've deported. I am all for allowing people to come here for better opportunity, but they have to obey the law. Our system is no more complicated or bureaucratic than any other western country. Slaveboy I do believe you have drunk the kool-aid...put the cup down and slowly back away from the table....when was the last time an illegal immigrant took your job...the first time? anytime? Have your wages ever been driven down by the presence of an illegal and if so.....report the employer! Why is enforcement always focused on the low-end...arrest the one's benifiting the most when laws are broken,,,not the poor fools busting their ass's trying to feed a family but the factory owner trying to maximise profits by paying below market wages to illegals... It doen't matter if they are just busting their hump. They broke our laws, they should face the consequences along with those who employ them. And I am sorry, but this isn't just a republican boogeyman, in fact a lot of republicans are in favor of "amesty". So in my view the democrats and republicans are dishing out the koolaid. And while I may not have had my job taken or my wage lowered by an illeigal, both of my brothers have. So it is personal.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:18:45 PM)
quote: Slaveboy I do believe you have drunk the kool-aid...put the cup down and slowly back away from the table....when was the last time an illegal immigrant took your job...the first time? anytime? Have your wages ever been driven down by the presence of an illegal and if so.....report the employer! Why is enforcement always focused on the low-end...arrest the one's benifiting the most when laws are broken,,,not the poor fools busting their ass's trying to feed a family but the factory owner trying to maximise profits by paying below market wages to illegals... Mike, no they haven't taken my jobs. But I'm not a blue collar worker; it's the reason I went to college. My little brother is a carpenter, and you're damn skippy that he's had jobs taken from him by illegals. He worked for a long time with a contractor that refused to hire illegals. Time after time, they were underbid for jobs. Oh, and they reported the SOBs all the time. Nothing was ever done about it. I think it is you that "has been drinking the Kool-Aid" if you don't understand that wages get driven down when the market is flooded with cheap labor. I'm all for arresting the employers that break the law. But as far as I'm concerned, illegals should be deported and never allowed to return. You either follow the law or don't come here.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:20:17 PM)
Amen

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:21:55 PM)
Well I hate to be the one to break it to you rexrgisforidoni(sheesh that's a mouthful)but these illegals are here to stay.You can tighten up the borders,you can streamline the system...you can facillitate the legal emigration of immigrants.....The one thing you can not do is excise those already here,we do not have the capacity nor the political willpwer to root out and deport the millions of illegal immigrants presently in this country....a fucking police state could not accomplish what you and others are suggesting...so keep rejecting and protesting those amnesty plans...keep cheering each time some small town border sherrif runs a photo-op scooping up some unlucky illegal....just remember there are millions more,and they are all around you.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:26:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well I hate to be the one to break it to you rexrgisforidoni(sheesh that's a mouthful)but these illegals are here to stay.You can tighten up the borders,you can streamline the system...you can facillitate the legal emigration of immigrants.....The one thing you can not do is excise those already here,we do not have the capacity nor the political willpwer to root out and deport the millions of illegal immigrants presently in this country....a fucking police state could not accomplish what you and others are suggesting...so keep rejecting and protesting those amnesty plans...keep cheering each time some small town border sherrif runs a photo-op scooping up some unlucky illegal....just remember there are millions more,and they are all around you. and the fact they are here to stay is people with zero willpower to kick their law breaking asses out. Its pretty simple, big a damn wall and tell them in spanish on every channel and radio they have a month to leave or they get forcibly removed, and then begin the sweeps. They are not that hard to find.

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:36:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Slaveboy I do believe you have drunk the kool-aid...put the cup down and slowly back away from the table....when was the last time an illegal immigrant took your job...the first time? anytime? Have your wages ever been driven down by the presence of an illegal and if so.....report the employer! Why is enforcement always focused on the low-end...arrest the one's benifiting the most when laws are broken,,,not the poor fools busting their ass's trying to feed a family but the factory owner trying to maximise profits by paying below market wages to illegals... Mike, no they haven't taken my jobs. But I'm not a blue collar worker; it's the reason I went to college. My little brother is a carpenter, and you're damn skippy that he's had jobs taken from him by illegals. He worked for a long time with a contractor that refused to hire illegals. Time after time, they were underbid for jobs. Oh, and they reported the SOBs all the time. Nothing was ever done about it. I think it is you that "has been drinking the Kool-Aid" if you don't understand that wages get driven down when the market is flooded with cheap labor. I'm all for arresting the employers that break the law. But as far as I'm concerned, illegals should be deported and never allowed to return. You either follow the law or don't come here. Okay my fellow kool-aid drinker,mind telling me how you suggest we do this.What draconian laws would you enact to help facillitate this massive round-up...and keep in mind the rest of us citizens do not like to be bothered by delays and security checkpoints.....this should be interesting.BTW you do realise once you round all these people up they are still entitled to due process before you shuffle them off to whence they came...that is going to overload the system,we will need to drastically expand the Dept of Immigration,might have to build some more holding facillities....heck we might have to raise some taxes(only for those that are here legally of course)well while we're at it we (the government) are going to need shit loads more money because under the heading of unintended consequences,,,no one realised these people pay taxes ,but don't file tax forms...no returns the government gets to keep that money.Well don't worry about it ...you the taxpayer can pony up....but we wll get rid of the stinking immigrants....wooopie!!!!!

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:39:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Slaveboy I do believe you have drunk the kool-aid...put the cup down and slowly back away from the table....when was the last time an illegal immigrant took your job...the first time? anytime? Have your wages ever been driven down by the presence of an illegal and if so.....report the employer! Why is enforcement always focused on the low-end...arrest the one's benifiting the most when laws are broken,,,not the poor fools busting their ass's trying to feed a family but the factory owner trying to maximise profits by paying below market wages to illegals... Mike, no they haven't taken my jobs. But I'm not a blue collar worker; it's the reason I went to college. My little brother is a carpenter, and you're damn skippy that he's had jobs taken from him by illegals. He worked for a long time with a contractor that refused to hire illegals. Time after time, they were underbid for jobs. Oh, and they reported the SOBs all the time. Nothing was ever done about it. I think it is you that "has been drinking the Kool-Aid" if you don't understand that wages get driven down when the market is flooded with cheap labor. I'm all for arresting the employers that break the law. But as far as I'm concerned, illegals should be deported and never allowed to return. You either follow the law or don't come here. Okay my fellow kool-aid drinker,mind telling me how you suggest we do this.What draconian laws would you enact to help facillitate this massive round-up...and keep in mind the rest of us citizens do not like to be bothered by delays and security checkpoints.....this should be interesting.BTW you do realise once you round all these people up they are still entitled to due process before you shuffle them off to whence they came...that is going to overload the system,we will need to drastically expand the Dept of Immigration,might have to build some more holding facillities....heck we might have to raise some taxes(only for those that are here legally of course)well while we're at it we (the government) are going to need shit loads more money because under the heading of unintended consequences,,,no one realised these people pay taxes ,but don't file tax forms...no returns the government gets to keep that money.Well don't worry about it ...you the taxpayer can pony up....but we wll get rid of the stinking immigrants....wooopie!!!!! Deny them due process, they don't deserve the trial. Just put them on a damn bus and shut the gate.

Arpig -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:51:16 PM)
quote: Deny them due process, they don't deserve the trial. Just put them on a damn bus and shut the gate. That's just lovely...however its also unconstitutional....you have to prove they are illegals before you can throw them out

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 1:52:45 PM)
Oh well. Its not like its not being violated now anyways.

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:01:59 PM)
Rexrgisforidoni you have done a finer job than I could ever do at trivializing your argument with these last 2 post's.Thanks, these poor people have nothing to fear as long as those that wish them gone keep talking in absolutes and nonsense

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:06:03 PM)
Well I am glad I am entertaining at least. Sadly I find your arguments defeatist.

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:13:07 PM)
But realistic my friend which gives them the advantage of being sensible and grounded in truth.....after all some defeats are inevitable...culling millions of illegals from within a "free society"has always been and will always remian a pipe dream of the right.Amnesty and a path to citizenship is the only way to go here ...and till the politicians start being honest with us and admit that in the clear light of day,you and others will keep demonizing and scape goating this class of non-citizen...it is sad.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:18:25 PM)
quote: Okay my fellow kool-aid drinker,mind telling me how you suggest we do this.What draconian laws would you enact to help facillitate this massive round-up...and keep in mind the rest of us citizens do not like to be bothered by delays and security checkpoints.....this should be interesting.BTW you do realise once you round all these people up they are still entitled to due process before you shuffle them off to whence they came...that is going to overload the system,we will need to drastically expand the Dept of Immigration,might have to build some more holding facillities....heck we might have to raise some taxes(only for those that are here legally of course)well while we're at it we (the government) are going to need shit loads more money because under the heading of unintended consequences,,,no one realised these people pay taxes ,but don't file tax forms...no returns the government gets to keep that money.Well don't worry about it ...you the taxpayer can pony up....but we wll get rid of the stinking immigrants....wooopie!!!!! You're right. It's a complicated problem, so fuck it. Let's just forget that we have laws. Law enforcement is a giant pain in the ass, and we can't stop crime. So every man for himself. To hell with the borders; we will just put out a big welcome sign and let anyone in that wants to come. We can all just take your apathetic attitude and just turn our entire country into a crowded, third world cesspool.

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:24:07 PM)
So slaveboy what part of Amnesty and path to citizenship confuse you? That is and will always be the only sane and doable way to address your issues....and BTW the Rep.Candidate for President supported a path to citizenship amnesty program....right up till he needed the support of the Republican base and the fringe right.....all of a sudden to appeal to them he was ready to lead the roundup....but feel free to keep beating this drum,I notice you have no suggestions for overcoming the obstacles I mentioned?

Sanity -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:24:17 PM)
Once they know we're serious about enforcing our laws they'll quit coming here in such large numbers, and quite a few who are here illegally now will leave in an orderly and voluntary manner rather than face being forcibly deported and risk having their families' lives torn apart in the process. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Okay my fellow kool-aid drinker,mind telling me how you suggest we do this.What draconian laws would you enact to help facillitate this massive round-up...and keep in mind the rest of us citizens do not like to be bothered by delays and security checkpoints.....this should be interesting.BTW you do realise once you round all these people up they are still entitled to due process before you shuffle them off to whence they came...that is going to overload the system,we will need to drastically expand the Dept of Immigration,might have to build some more holding facillities....heck we might have to raise some taxes(only for those that are here legally of course)well while we're at it we (the government) are going to need shit loads more money because under the heading of unintended consequences,,,no one realised these people pay taxes ,but don't file tax forms...no returns the government gets to keep that money.Well don't worry about it ...you the taxpayer can pony up....but we wll get rid of the stinking immigrants....wooopie!!!!!

slvemike4u -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:26:53 PM)
Really, voluntary surrender is what your going to go with here.....you are so much fun. [:D]

popeye1250 -> RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy (9/26/2008 2:38:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So slaveboy what part of Amnesty and path to citizenship confuse you? That is and will always be the only sane and doable way to address your issues....and BTW the Rep.Candidate for President supported a path to citizenship amnesty program....right up till he needed the support of the Republican base and the fringe right.....all of a sudden to appeal to them he was ready to lead the roundup....but feel free to keep beating this drum,I notice you have no suggestions for overcoming the obstacles I mentioned? How's about Bank Robbers, Rapists and Murderers, do they get "amnesty" too? We most certainly can get rid of the 20-30 million illegals in the U.S., just not in 30 days. It may take 3 or 4 years. You start by sending people who hire them to prison for 3-5 years. And slvemike, this isn't a "Republican" bogeyman issue only, us Independants are against it by far as well as many if not most Democrats. I don't know one person in these parts who is "for" any type of "amnesty" for any illegal aliens.

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