RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah!

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RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:09:22 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
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quote:

McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be, especially when just about everyone else in the world apart from the US and Israel talk to Iran.

Well, just out of curiosity, if everyone else is talking to IRAN and nothing is changing with Iran and Iran isn't changing nor are agreements happening with Iran, exactly how does talking to Iran help? Why would the US have to talk to Iran if everyone else talking to Iran is proving that talking to Iran isn't getting anywhere. Are you saying the US is the ONLY country in the world capable of having Iran change and do things the way the WORLD wants it too?

It seems to me that everyone believes the US should be a major force in the world and all side with us when things go right but then bitch and moan when we make decisions they don't like or don't always work out as planned.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 9/27/2008 6:13:36 AM >

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Post #: 81

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:17:08 AM

Sanity

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You must have been using the loo or something! Yes, McCain did address that last night when he said (something like) "...so you sit down with Iran and they say they're going to wipe Israel off the map, you say no you're not and they say yes they are - where does the conversation go from there?" He said it would give Iran a propaganda tool and lend them legitimacy...

McCain said much more than that about the situation too, go look up the transcript.

quote:

McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be, especially when just about everyone else in the world apart from the US and Israel talk to Iran.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/27/2008 6:20:04 AM >

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Post #: 82

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:24:18 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be,

Huh? McCain was very clear on that, MC. He even repeated the point when Obama seemed incapable of grasping it. We will not legitimize that unshaven, unwashed, goofball by sitting down across a table from him. Doing so would enhance his credibility, and imply that we might be ok with the stated declarations about the destruction of Israel. (And before you get started on that, the 'palestinians' had their chance, and blew it. Fuck 'em.)

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 83

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:27:16 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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The criticisms of Obama are that he is too gracious and respectful. He also strikes me as an extreme rationalist, or a highly defined "T" on the meyers briggs scale. Hence he is also criticized for a lack of passion and emotion. I think some Americans just don't get what he is saying --- because he can be too over refined in his words and delivery. Unlike Bill Clinton, who was also very smart, Obama just doesn't relate as well to others and he can come off as too smart and too educated at times. Clinton was the best, smart populist we've seen. The Republicans could never touch him, and most Americans loved him.

Obama, though, is more together than Clinton -- personally. Funny how personality traits are both an asset and a liability. Clinton could relate to others because he was saucy, human, and smart --- but this also got him impeached and generated scandal. Obama is much cleaner by comparison, but he's more distant and "up there" as a result.

Obama, though, is self aware. When he picked Biden as his running mate, he choose a strong, experienced, and complimentary person, who is largely his opposite: more emotional, down-to-earth, and passionate.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/27/2008 6:36:06 AM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 84

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:31:04 AM

Sanity

Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Except that Biden is really brainless, which really isn't a criticism, just an observation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The criticisms of Obama are that he is too gracious and respectful. He also strikes me as an extreme rationalist, or a highly defined "T" on the meyers briggs scale. Hence he is also criticized for a lack of passion and emotion.

The good thing about Obmama is that he did choose a strong, experienced, and complimentary running mate in BIDEN, who is more emotional, down-to-earth, and passionate in his ways.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 85

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 6:44:07 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be,

Huh? McCain was very clear on that, MC. He even repeated the point when Obama seemed incapable of grasping it. We will not legitimize that unshaven, unwashed, goofball by sitting down across a table from him. Doing so would enhance his credibility, and imply that we might be ok with the stated declarations about the destruction of Israel. (And before you get started on that, the 'palestinians' had their chance, and blew it. Fuck 'em.)

That goofball is legitimized, he is the President of a sovereign nation. Now I know many Americans and certainly American politicians haven't got over having the US's nose put out of joint by the Iranian revolution but being unable to move on is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength. As I pointed out, everyone else talks to that goofball apart from the US and Israel and the US doesn't seem in a position to get into another war in the region though I could see McCain happy to oblige taking a few hundred thousand innocents with him when he leaves this would. He probably thinks starting another war would cement his place in history because he probably hasn't got enough time on this planet to solve the US's most urgent problems.

One day Israel will be too expensive for the US to keep bankrolling. A true allie would try to get comprehencive peace in the region rather waving its dick around like some adolescent in the school shower rooms.

_____________________________

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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 86

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:11:36 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

WTF was up with how Obama pronounced Pakistan. He sounded like Madonna after she turned British.

Edited to add...the actual words they said...blah blah blah. Same old garbage from both. Neither will change this country in a positive way. Neither has the balls to do or say what really needs to be done.

That's pretty much right -- except -- they'll do what needs to be done -- For Number One.

We ain't even NUMBER TWO.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 87

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:33:42 AM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

Obama, though, is self aware. When he picked Biden as his running mate, he choose a strong, experienced, and complimentary person, who is largely his opposite: more emotional, down-to-earth, and passionate.

Yeah, just don't touch his Baretta....which he thinks is a shot gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyLeOm6yGc
i hate when people try to pander to the audience by saying "ain't" and wearing ugly assed hats.....

~moderate slut

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 88

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:35:47 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Obama got schooled on Pakistan and Russia.
McCain went deep into the politics of the region and Obama clearly had no clue what he was talking about.

It's obvious foreign policy is not Obama's strength.

Apparently we didn't watch the same debate at all.

I think that McCain has one idea for foreign policy: Aggression.

Clearly that has worked so well....

We need someone who can be diplomat and avoid wars not rush into them and maintain them and encourage them.

I love how neocons jump on the "war band" when they have a candidate who has "war experience" whatever that may be but when they don't (such as Bush II) they belittle "war experience" and attack veterans. That's called hypocrisy and I won't vote for hypocrites of either party.

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(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 89

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:36:51 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The criticisms of Obama are that he is too gracious and respectful. He also strikes me as an extreme rationalist, or a highly defined "T" on the meyers briggs scale. Hence he is also criticized for a lack of passion and emotion. I think some Americans just don't get what he is saying --- because he can be too over refined in his words and delivery. Unlike Bill Clinton, who was also very smart, Obama just doesn't relate as well to others and he can come off as too smart and too educated at times. Clinton was the best, smart populist we've seen. The Republicans could never touch him, and most Americans loved him.

You described Obama very well. I guess I like that sort of thing. I was very impressed. I don't like politicians who seek to use emotional response and manipulation to garner support, I prefer rational and reasonable explanations of real issues. I never liked Clinton, I always thought he was slimy.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 90

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:37:39 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
McCain said talking to Iran would be naive and dangerous but never said why it would be,

Huh? McCain was very clear on that, MC. He even repeated the point when Obama seemed incapable of grasping it. We will not legitimize that unshaven, unwashed, goofball by sitting down across a table from him. Doing so would enhance his credibility, and imply that we might be ok with the stated declarations about the destruction of Israel. (And before you get started on that, the 'palestinians' had their chance, and blew it. Fuck 'em.)

That goofball is legitimized, he is the President of a sovereign nation. Now I know many Americans and certainly American politicians haven't got over having the US's nose put out of joint by the Iranian revolution but being unable to move on is a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength. As I pointed out, everyone else talks to that goofball apart from the US and Israel and the US doesn't seem in a position to get into another war in the region though I could see McCain happy to oblige taking a few hundred thousand innocents with him when he leaves this would. He probably thinks starting another war would cement his place in history because he probably hasn't got enough time on this planet to solve the US's most urgent problems.

One day Israel will be too expensive for the US to keep bankrolling. A true allie would try to get comprehencive peace in the region rather waving its dick around like some adolescent in the school shower rooms.

Here, here.

The idea that a nation can strong arm another should be terrifying to anyone who claims to love democracy but then I have very serious doubts that neocons give a damn about democracy. They mostly want folks to live in fear and make money for the elites.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 91

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:44:25 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

The idea that a nation can strong arm another should be terrifying

And what would you call Iran's stance towards Israel, Tammy?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 92

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:51:49 AM

pusssnbooots2

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

WTF was up with how Obama pronounced Pakistan. He sounded like Madonna after she turned British.

I know what you mean - same thing with 'taliban' - very odd!

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 93

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:56:19 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

The idea that a nation can strong arm another should be terrifying

And what would you call Iran's stance towards Israel, Tammy?

The problem people never mention is that countires like Iran are reacting to US/Israeli aggression and are not the originators of the aggression in the region.

Also people like you conveniently never hear the calls for negotiations the USA/Israel always rejects because it doesn't suit Israel's ambitions for a greater Israel, the main cause of the problem in the whole region.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/27/2008 7:59:53 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 94

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:58:25 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

As promised, here is the video of Barry having to read the name off the bracelet. I suspect it will be the moment that gets remembered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRTTYe_1h0&NR=1

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 9/27/2008 8:01:40 AM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 95

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 7:59:57 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

Obama, though, is self aware. When he picked Biden as his running mate, he choose a strong, experienced, and complimentary person, who is largely his opposite: more emotional, down-to-earth, and passionate.

Yeah, just don't touch his Baretta....which he thinks is a shot gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyLeOm6yGc
i hate when people try to pander to the audience by saying "ain't" and wearing ugly assed hats.....

~moderate slut

There are Beretta shotguns.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/beretta-shotguns.php

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 96

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 8:01:13 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Except that Biden is really brainless, which really isn't a criticism, just an observation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

This from a poster who thinks the Hockey mom is just swell....

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(in reply to Sanity)

Post #: 97

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 8:03:28 AM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

Obama, though, is self aware. When he picked Biden as his running mate, he choose a strong, experienced, and complimentary person, who is largely his opposite: more emotional, down-to-earth, and passionate.

Yeah, just don't touch his Baretta....which he thinks is a shot gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyLeOm6yGc
i hate when people try to pander to the audience by saying "ain't" and wearing ugly assed hats.....

~moderate slut

There are Beretta shotguns.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/beretta-shotguns.php

Well...whaddayaknow!!!! my mistake....though the hat, and "ain't" comments stand.
~they call me tulip, and i approve this message

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 98

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 8:06:33 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

As promised, here is the video of Barry having to read the name off the bracelet. I suspect it will be the moment that gets remembered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRTTYe_1h0&NR=1

Thanks for putting up the video showing Obama not reading the name off the bracelet. I suspect this lie will be another one remembered forever for the pathetic attempt to make political hay over nothing.

Now go find the video where McCain spends far longer fiddling around desperately trying to get the bracelet he was wearing where he could see it and explain why he spent all that effort trying to hide exposing the bracelet if he did actually know the man's name.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 99

RE: The Great Debate Tonight!!!!! Hell yeah! - 9/27/2008 8:06:36 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Also people like you conveniently never hear the calls for negotiations the USA/Israel always rejects because it doesn't suit Israel's ambitions for a greater Israel, the main cause of the problem in the whole region.

I'm calling Bullshit on you, MC. We hear the press release crap all the time. What "people like you" live in denial of are the so-called "palestinians' walking away from the deal, because they choose war over peace. I repeat; Fuck 'em.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 100

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