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Post Debate - 9/26/2008 8:09:13 PM   
cloudboy


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I thought neither candidate particularly distinguished himself. A draw probably helps McCain.

To me what clouded the debate are the handcuffs holding the USA down, namely quagmires in IRAQ, Afghanistan, and Wall Street. These things reduce each candidate's ability to project any kind of achievable agenda.

When McCain says we are winning in IRAQ, I really have no idea what he means. When Obama said we need timetables for IRAQ, I'm not sure how that would go. Its also cloudy weather when hearing about Afghanistan.

McCain wants to reign in spending, but his earmark plan looks ridiculous. McCain wants to cap spending, but he won't eye any kind of military spending cuts and he won't go near entitlements either.

Problems in the banking system, problems in foreign policy --- big problems all around --- Obama did ask, "how did we get here?" Although I see that as the deciding factor in this election, the electorate might yet again issue the Republicans another free pass.
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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 1:57:54 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I thought neither candidate particularly distinguished himself. A draw probably helps McCain.

To me what clouded the debate are the handcuffs holding the USA down, namely quagmires in IRAQ, Afghanistan, and Wall Street. These things reduce each candidate's ability to project any kind of achievable agenda.

When McCain says we are winning in IRAQ, I really have no idea what he means. When Obama said we need timetables for IRAQ, I'm not sure how that would go. Its also cloudy weather when hearing about Afghanistan.

McCain wants to reign in spending, but his earmark plan looks ridiculous. McCain wants to cap spending, but he won't eye any kind of military spending cuts and he won't go near entitlements either.

Problems in the banking system, problems in foreign policy --- big problems all around --- Obama did ask, "how did we get here?" Although I see that as the deciding factor in this election, the electorate might yet again issue the Republicans another free pass.


I agree with your initial comment...neither candidate really "won" the debate which means if you like Nobama before the debate you still like him...if you liked McPain before the debate you still like him.  For most, I think,
it actually is not favoring either one of these guys...it a question who we each feel is "the lesser of two evils".  Obama is an immature guy who has accomplished nothing other than benefit his own career with clever politics. Every issue we face today IS above his paygrade.  McCain has no clue what the impact of our open borders, or worse, he doesn't care about the invasion from Mexico and Latin America is having on our society.

You have to recognize that Iraq is in the center of the most important and strategic area from oil that drives our economy, and will continue to drive our economy in our lifetimes and the lifetimes of our children. Obama wants to remove American influence from the area, abandon our friends in the area, by building distrust that America stands for anything and "when the going gets tough, America quits" will be how we are viewed globally.  We wrote that in bold letter in VietNam, and the premature withhdrawal from Iraq will have the same profound influence on how we are perceived by tough leaders across the globe, not to mention we would have a totally demoralized military that has sacrificed so much for our country.

The democrat party is against drilling, the democrat party is against clean coal sources of power, the democrat party is against nuclear energy even though the majority of Frence energy comes from nuclear plants, a country with whom the democrat party has a love affair.  Nope, their solution.."windmills"....Yep..WINDMILLS!  The idiocy of windmills is a national tragedy, and the greenies have our country charging ahead to attack the wind like Don Quixote.  Oh, by the way, no one discusses that green organizations don't want the infracture that will transport the windmill energy (as long as the wind is blowing of course) across the national parks.  And we all know how important our national parks are to our livelihoods.  Save the "spotted owl", save the "snail darter" save the friggin polar bears..but screw the humanity of our country...Way to go guys!

Thank God the proud Americans of today, like the proud Romans of 2,000 years ago won't be around to read the history books to be written about the Fall of the American democracy in the 21st Century.  It fell because the wind stopped and America didn't have the fossil fuels or nuclear plants to send power to the grid., and America stopped!  Just stopped!  I grew up in NYC and there are parts of the West Side that would probably applaud that development. Sieg Heil, Herr Obermann.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 6:12:58 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Winning in Iraq means the born again Christians want rapture today,  and it mean the state of Israel want the USA to handle any threat to their power in the mid east.

They can not be specific on the details because if they said we built 10 schools, 11 schools would then be bombed.

It is also about a one world government where a nation rules the world. You might think that means the USA....but IMO that means Israel will be the "managers" of the earth.     hence the term "new world order"

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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 6:27:37 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Winning in Iraq means the born again Christians want rapture today,  and it mean the state of Israel want the USA to handle any threat to their power in the mid east.

They can not be specific on the details because if they said we built 10 schools, 11 schools would then be bombed.

It is also about a one world government where a nation rules the world. You might think that means the USA....but IMO that means Israel will be the "managers" of the earth.     hence the term "new world order"




Huh?  Too deep for me to understand what you are saying, but gosh, it doesn't sound good for the USA.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 8:51:34 AM   
fearghus


Posts: 135
Joined: 9/10/2008
Status: offline 		*mostly* a draw.

McCain comes out slightly ahead on aggressive style, which is a good quality to have in a President ... but NEITHER of them said anything particularly enlightening, nor did either of them deliver any serious blow to the other.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 11:28:09 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		I concure with the no real blows landed evaluation.
I kept waiting for the obvious shots, that both sides missed taking.

McCain swing and a miss on Obama on the Budget and Taxes.
Failed to address the quote that additional taxes on capital gains are more about "fairness than bringing in more money to the government.
Failed to make all that proposed new spending stick very well on Obama.


Obama had a swing and a miss on McCain with the earmarks and the hatchet vs the scalpel
McCain failed to make the counterpunch on the scalpel remark that was so obvious
Obama says we need a scalple not a hatchet, and McCain could have followed that with we need to cut alot off the budget to make it ballance and a scalple simpley takes too long to remove enough to actually ballance the budget.
And then the second counter punch about military spending McCain did actually promise closer oversite and removal of the cost plus military contract system.
and could have retorted that Obama said we needed a scapel for the overall budget not a hatchet, yet he wan't to take a hatchet to the defense budget instead of a scalpel.
Would have been a solid hit but McCain missed the opportunity.

Obama missed McCain with the Iraq thing other then the vote getting into it in the first place. And considering that is old news no minds changed.

Obama swing and a miss on

I ranked it as Obama on style points but even otherwise last night. Not sure it has changed much since then.



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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 12:02:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		         I don't know how much opportunity they will have in the Town Hall format that is next, but I'd like too see more of the direct engagement we were seeing in the second half last night.  The bickering over Kissinger's position was revealing on both sides (Kissinger clarified for McCain this morning).  There were flashes of anger on both sides, and I'm sure both will be looking to push those buttons again.

      As I suspected when I saw it during the broadcast, YouTube video of Obama having to read Sgt. Uhhh's actual name off his bracelet was in my email this morning. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdmywc39XD0 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 12:05:01 PM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fearghus

*mostly* a draw.

McCain comes out slightly ahead on aggressive style, which is a good quality to have in a President ... but NEITHER of them said anything particularly enlightening, nor did either of them deliver any serious blow to the other.


Do you think aggressive is a good trait as President? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking that it's not really a good time to appear "aggressive". We already have a lot of enemies.


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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 12:59:21 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Do you think aggressive is a good trait as President? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking that it's not really a good time to appear "aggressive". We already have a lot of enemies.


All the more reason to appear aggressive, no one respects the 98lb weakling.

Our enemies are just that, enemies, and you negotiate with an enemy, from a position of strength.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 1:11:58 PM   
MistresseLotus


Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline 		The more I hear McCain talk.. the more I like Obama.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 2:30:02 PM   
kittinSol


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I completely agree: a president should have an operating internal cooling system. We don't need another hot head who acts on instinct: we've seen where that takes the country.

Emotions and sentimentalism are way overrated in this culture: I'd much rather see someone who's calm and collected, and who thinks before he acts, win, than someone who is emotionally damaged and prone to fits of anger.



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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 9:07:03 PM   
fearghus


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Joined: 9/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: fearghus

*mostly* a draw.

McCain comes out slightly ahead on aggressive style, which is a good quality to have in a President ... but NEITHER of them said anything particularly enlightening, nor did either of them deliver any serious blow to the other.


Do you think aggressive is a good trait as President? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking that it's not really a good time to appear "aggressive". We already have a lot of enemies.




Yes.  Yes, I do.

Worked well for Clinton, Regan, Nixon (at least on foriegn policy), Kennedy, etc.

I could go on, but I think two Repub and two Deomc examples are enough for recent history.

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Post Debate - 9/27/2008 9:49:26 PM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Do you think aggressive is a good trait as President? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking that it's not really a good time to appear "aggressive". We already have a lot of enemies.


All the more reason to appear aggressive, no one respects the 98lb weakling.

Our enemies are just that, enemies, and you negotiate with an enemy, from a position of strength.


Not everyone considers aggressiveness to be strength?  I see it as a sign of weakness.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/28/2008 8:19:39 AM   
fearghus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Do you think aggressive is a good trait as President? I don't know, I'm kind of thinking that it's not really a good time to appear "aggressive". We already have a lot of enemies.


All the more reason to appear aggressive, no one respects the 98lb weakling.

Our enemies are just that, enemies, and you negotiate with an enemy, from a position of strength.


Not everyone considers aggressiveness to be strength?  I see it as a sign of weakness.



And hence, we are all entitled to our opinions.

For me, an aggressive personality in a president is important - espcially when coupled with reasoned prudence ... which is probably why aggression on its own did not work so well for W.

< Message edited by fearghus -- 9/28/2008 8:21:23 AM >

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RE: Post Debate - 9/28/2008 9:48:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I prefer calm assertive over agressive. The idiot we have in office now has demonstrated all too well the pitfalls of an agressive president.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Post Debate - 9/28/2008 10:53:41 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Obama was dissapointing, far too polite and way too deferential to the ageing war hero. He wasn't debating with a war hero but potentially the next president if he doesn't stop pussyfooting about and nail the geriatric.

McCain was better than he could have hoped for himself but he looked old, reacted slowly, showed signs of aggrssion through frustration and has the stature of a man in steep decline. One can't imagine him having the stamina to remain alert in long detailed negotiations which is why a suspect, he doesn't believe in negotiating but believes the US's enemies should just capitulate and humiliate themselves even if they don't have to.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Post Debate - 9/28/2008 11:06:09 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		McCain as the Alpha Male

I like David Broder's summation of the debate....and it is, I think, telling that Broder is hardly a right wing idealogue.


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RE: Post Debate - 9/29/2008 6:49:30 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Too bad for McCain the polls disagree.

Not that I am complaining mind you............


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Post Debate - 9/29/2008 6:53:06 AM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I thought neither candidate particularly distinguished himself. A draw probably helps McCain.


McCain distinguished himself.... he grimaced, appeared shifty-eyed, and did not know how to hold himself. In a country that is all about appearances he managed to distinguish himself alright. He appeared constipated.

He also sounded like he was old enough to have known Moses with all his references to 20th century events. Earth to McCain... the world has changed since the stone age.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Post Debate - 9/29/2008 6:59:26 AM   
bipolarber


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Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		I've found it interesting that, as time has progressed since the debate, and the various media news outlets have been playing shortened clips from the encounter, it seems that things have shifted. Initially, most were saying that McCain won the debate, while Obama came in a close second. However, due to his "bulldog" demeanor, McCains clips make him look like a hothead and a bully, while Obama continues to seem measured and presidential... So, four days out, many are now calling Obama the winner, and the polls seem to be reflecting that.

Coming up Thursday night: Sarah Palin gets served.

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