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RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 7:25:51 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You have no clue do you ?

First of all if Obama really was a pro at this game he would let them say whatever they want. Then he can rightly accuse them of lying and back it up with facts. This is like a chess game with them bringing out a rook, and he warns them not to take his knight, but doesn't mention that his queen is poised to take the rook afterward. I would trade one knight for one rook, but not both.

Let me give you a scenario. This odd website pops up, a REALLY wierd group gets enough money to get on TV. Let's say they alledge that Obama is a baby killer, a baby burner and all that, and that he eats his neighbors' dogs and cats.

What would you do if you were he ? I would respond, not react. I would run an ad with my family and a couple of animals. "They say I'm a baby killer, [hold up a kid] do you see any burn marks ? Does he look burned to you ? See this dog, look close for teeth marks, satisfy yourself. At the very least I know this, if there are any teethmarks on this dog, they are not mine".

However there is another contingency. What was cited would be evidence of warning. In a libel case, if the opposition had run false derogatory ads, especially right before the election so that nothing can be proven or disproved, and the election is within a scant few points, a close run, Obama would have a case in tort law.

In some cases at tort law, the plaintiff must have warned the defendant at some point that continuing his actions would result in legal action. This is not extortion. The case has alot more merit no matter what, when there is solid evidence of a warning. Generally when you are dealing with an encroachment on property lines and things like that you give written notice. If part of their garage is already built and it is on your property a bit, if you didn't watch what was going on you would have a very hard time not allowing the easement. If you gave notice they would have to tear it down. Unnastan ?

Tort law is funny, there are many aspects of it, but the part involved now is slander and libel. It would be interesting to see what price the court or jury would put on winning the election.

Obama is a lawyer. He is a member of the bar no doubt and as per the real amendments should not hold office. But he is the lesser of two evils. That is not the point. They only recognize the laws that suit them at the moment. Why would anybody think that would change ?

Now, when faced with an environment where you are not held to account for your actions from day one, what would you do, if you were playing the game ?

T

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 7:57:18 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Unfortunately lies in a political campaign are protected speech...Ask the Supreme Court of the state of Washington.
False advertising is indeed legal in some cases however Obama wouldn't be the first to try to stop such things there have been
a number of attempts at making campaign lies actionable, of course if you make them illegal what would Karl Rove do for a living?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 7:59:19 PM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline 		It's okay for socialist thugs to use law enforcement to their own ends because, you know, it's "for the people."  

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:01:55 PM   
zenderella


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/18/2008
Status: offline 		"Democrats are releasing an ad in VA that says McCain still has cancer. I dont see McCain suing anyone. "

Ok I viewed the cancer ad and it doesn't say that McCain has cancer. It just said he had had it and the results of a spread, IF it spread. I don't see any problem with this as there is a chance if McCain had cancer 4 times, there could certainly be a 5th or it could spread.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:11:37 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Who cares anymore?   Neither candidate has a clue.   Obama has the right to defend himself against this if it is a lie.  
 
I am writing in Senator Clinton.   She would have done a wonderful job.
 
Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:16:17 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Certainly, the suggestion that McCain could suffer another bout of cancer, especially at his advanced age, is not outside the realm of possibility... So, I think this ad is probably relevant to people making up their mind to vote for McCain or not... Why would you want to vote in a possibly terminal President?

Unfortunately, when it came time to open his medical records for public scrutiny, the McCain camp balked. They only allowed a handful of reporters to go through the encyclopeic volumes of McCain's medical history... all his many, many problems... and only gave the a couple of hours to do so...

Obama, on the other hand, sent everyone copies of his three page, full medical history.

So how can we assess the risk to McCain of a resurgence of this diesease, and the risk to the country, which could put a political neophyte,  know-nothing hockey Mom in charge of the nuclear arsenal, our flailing economy, and the two wars that we are mired in?

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:21:57 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

      I can't find much more on this story.  Kirata's earlier link to the statement by the Missouri Governor might be worth a closer look...

What Senator Obama and his helpers are doing is scandalous beyond words, the party that claims to be the party of Thomas Jefferson is abusing the justice system and offices of public trust to silence political criticism with threats of prosecution and criminal punishment.
 
Link      


    

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:37:08 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vegeta

That smells of communism. Obama does not like criticism.The scary thing is if he is elected expect a Hugo Chaves type socialist administration where the first Amendment is in jeopardy.


*snorts*  They've already pretty well destroyed the first amendment with the Patriot Act and Patriot Act 2 and the institution of "homeland security."
 
Which of the current candidates were in office in washington when those were passed?  McCain, Obama, and Obama's running mate Biden.  Which of the 3 voted for it?  All 3 - it passed by Unanimous Consent in the Senate.  I don't include Palin in the list because she's rather obviously Not a member of Congrease, and therefore did not get an opportunity to vote in either direction.  This is absolutely not meant to be taken as my "approval" of Madame Palin - after taking a good long look at things, she sucks as much as "da boys" do.  It is simply meant as a statement of fact - she wasn't in a position to cast a vote, they all 3 were, and unanimously voted For such filth.
 
As for the OP, and Obama whining that he's going to sue... well... just how insecure is he about his positions and Truth?  If he weren't worried - either that the voters are to stupid to check facts (in which case he might very well be correct to worry) - or that fact checking will show that some of it perhaps isn't as far From the truth as he'd like us to otherwise believe (in which case he also might very well be correct to worry) - then why not ignore it and let the folks running the ads hang themselves?  Once you begin to fear that you "could" lose the fight - you've already lost it.

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(in reply to vegeta)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:42:34 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Again....how the hell does this justify what Obama is doing by claiming the other side does the same thing? Obama is the one that claims to be running a campaign of change. But it looks to me like he is no different than any other Chicago politician.

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 8:49:01 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Justification?  There is none, and never has been. 
 
Frankly, none of them are any better than a group of 6 yr olds out on the playground, whining "he hit me".. "but he hit me First" - "did not"... "did To"... until the Teacher (that'd be US - the Public) steps in, sends them BOTH to the principal's office for a well deserved ass whooping, and then sticks them both in opposite corners of the school room with their collective noses in the corner until it's time to get on the bus and go home with notes to their parents about how ill mannered and obnoxious they are.

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Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 9:06:32 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Again....how the hell does this justify what Obama is doing by claiming the other side does the same thing? Obama is the one that claims to be running a campaign of change. But it looks to me like he is no different than any other Chicago politician.


Obama is a crook and a crybaby like everyone else in that cesspit. Sadly some people think he represents change, or are just so partisan and blind followers of an ideology that means nothing, that they'll see the truth and not believe it.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 9:11:22 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

Sadly some people think he represents change, or are just so partisan and blind followers of an ideology that means nothing, that they'll see the truth and not believe it.



Ah yes. this kind of thing seems to happen all the time throughout history...

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/27/2008 9:14:52 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

Sadly some people think he represents change, or are just so partisan and blind followers of an ideology that means nothing, that they'll see the truth and not believe it.



Ah yes. this kind of thing seems to happen all the time throughout history...



History is a giant wheel....but seems to be getting smaller...moving faster

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 12:25:05 AM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

You raise a good point, Rich. Because the prosecutors were in civilian clothes and sounded like ordinary folks, the fact that they're part of law enforcement didn't fully sink in. If they're acting as law enforcement officers, then their deciding what ad subjects are appropriate is indeed disturbing.


Hi, DC...

Yes, attorneys, law enforcement officials (police, investigators, etc.), and judges are all considered "Officers of the Court" (at least in the Commonwealth of VA) and that isn't something to be taken very lightly.  They have certain "judicial" authority that others do not have.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 3:50:44 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vegeta

That smells of communism. Obama does not like criticism.The scary thing is if he is elected expect a Hugo Chaves type socialist administration where the first Amendment is in jeopardy.


You realize under the Bush Administration, your 4th Amendment rights have been lost, your 5th Amendment rights have been lost, and your 14th Amendment rights have been lost.

You are lied to, spied on, and if you're like Sami al Haj, you get tossed into the Gulag and tortured for 6 years before being released without charge.

So, pardon me if the hysteria about Obama taking away rights just doesn't resonate with Americans who have already lost their rights.



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(in reply to vegeta)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 5:13:47 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

It would be great if he could sue the pants off some liar, but winning such a claim in court would be a difficult battle.


So basically in a land riddled with bogus and silly lawsuits where someone looks at another funny or says something they don't like we want a President of  the US who runs to sue people because they said something about him that may or may not be true and he doesn't like all that much during an election?  We really want this in a President?  His campaign is sqeaky clean huh, so do we all get to sue him for breach of promise if he doesn't deliver what he says he will IF he becomes President?  I mean we have him promising some pretty HUGE things.  I think we should all send him Certificates of Guarantee and have him sign them and notarize them so when he doesn't deliver he can be sued for same, personally.    We sometimes do this in union NLRB elections because companies aren't allowed by law to give any promises or imply any, but the union reps can promise all types of things that they won't be able to deliver on.  In most cases the union reps won't sign because they know the legal ramifications and they know what they can and cannot actually deliver on.

Someone who puts strain on an already overburdened legal system because or meritless or silly lawsuits because someone said something mean or slightly about him -- do you know how many lawsuits this country would have if average people did this?  What's he gonna do if  he is president (which if he becomes President he will be running again in 4 years) -- sue other countries because they said mean and bad things about him? Have people running around finding all the people he can sue AS president so he wins the next election or sue people who may negatively influence people about a bill he wants to go through?

Sorry, its an election, if he is incapable of getting past the negative to have people follow him without threatening legal action or implied legal action, then to me he isn't a leader for this country.  I mean come on SUE the media who he needs as his friends?  That's someone i don't want for President because it tells me he is willing to cut off his nose despite his face.

angel

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 5:32:50 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vegeta

That smells of communism. Obama does not like criticism.The scary thing is if he is elected expect a Hugo Chaves type socialist administration where the first Amendment is in jeopardy.

It's all in the wording, isn't it?  You mean Obama doesn't like intentionally misleading(read here:false) ads that if used anywhere else would be labled libel, and that is a criminally punishable offense. Even in a non-Communist system.

i am not sure if these "reports" hold any water.  A lot of these things sort of get sorted in the wash, of course.  If it is true, i personally think it's a bit of a crybaby way of dealing with something that's been part of the electoral two- party process forever...but i can understand his frustration.  The thing is, most people that believe the false ads, actually choose to believe lies rather than find out the truth on their own.  In politics, "that's the breaks".  And it goes both ways.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 6:08:17 AM   
rulemylife


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Find me evidence that the Republicans have...

Democrats are releasing an ad in VA that says McCain still has cancer. I dont see McCain suing anyone.


Evidence?

You can't be serious.

The man's whole campaign has turned into a piss and moan fest about how the media is being mean to him and poor little Sarah.


Here is the ad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHvJPGnkQxE

This ad was put out by James Dean...Howard Dean's brother.


Yes, it's tasteless, but what does it have to do with your original post?

First, it's not an ad put out by Obama's campaign, it was put out by a PAC, which candidates have no control over.

Second, there was nothing blatantly false about it.  A candidate's fitness for the job includes whether he is physically healthy.  In this case, especially, considering the lack of confidence many have in his choice of running mate. 

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 7:47:49 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		The standard of libel for public figures has been a statement that is knowingly false or with actual malice (also stated as a reckless disregard for the truth). This has been the standard since New York Times Co v Sullivan in 1964 (376 US 254). None of the attacks on The One come anywhere near that standard. The One has no legal basis for any action against any ad aired thus far.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama campaign threatning legal action against critics - 9/28/2008 8:43:16 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		          This has nothing to do with libel laws, Celt.  This is about intimidation under the color of authority.  This is about apparently 'on the clock' law enforcement types inserting themselves into a political debate.  It is unacceptable, regardless of political affiliation.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 60
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