quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I enjoy time with bottoms. Don't get me wrong, I adore our servants, and we really have a much more intimate relationship with them--a more well-rounded relationship. But because of my particular kinks, I usually end up with servants who are submissive, but them not wanting anything to do with my more sadistic games... so I end up doing blood-sport with bottoms who are not necessarily submissive... just into receiving pain that I'm interest in inflicting. It's a different experience when you're both equals on opposite ends of a needle or blade, and mutually enjoying an activity. In some ways, there's a lot less pressure under those terms, at least, in my experience.

Calla Firestorm

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A "do me" bottom is one who likes *specific* acts done to him; ie, he is into CBT, but not bondage and will never do bondage, and he expects a self proclaimed bondage fetish to just indulge his cbt fetish.  A bottom can be selfless by being open, willing to endure a wide variety of physical and emotional sadism because his top enjoys it, even though the acts are not enjoyable in themselves.

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
...I was just swooning over the possibility of doughnuts! 

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ORIGINAL: sodsta
Isn't that more of a "submissive" thing to do?

See, this is all essentially squabbling over semantics. What one person might call a bottom, another would call submissive. What one person calls a sub with spirit, another calls a brat.

In my personal opinion, a bottom is someone who shows no submissive tendencies, and is essentially a pleasure-seeker. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest. All humans are pleasure-seekers. But I would say enduring acts that you don't find enjoyable merely for the pleasure of another was not the act of a bottom, but the act of a submissive. But that's just me. Others will have their own views.

Obviously bottoms want their Tops to enjoy themselves, but I would say a bottom was always in it for themselves, too.

I am a sub, but when I'm playing casually with friends I'm not submitting, I'm bottoming. True submission isn't something I can switch on and off with everyone... I would need a proper dynamic and emotional connection before I felt I could submit fully... but I have no problem bottoming. I love it, actually. And when I play with people as a bottom, I'm in it for me. Yes, I absolutely DO want my Top to enjoy him/herself, but NOT at the expense of my fun. I'm a bit of a hedonist when it comes to playing the bottom.

It's a bit like if I invited someone over for dinner. I'd find out what they liked and cook it for them, but only if I also liked it. If they liked spinach casserole and I absolutely hated it, it would be stupid for me to cook it. I'd either find out what else they liked, or I'd cook spinach casserole for them and something else for myself. Either way, we're both happy.

Anyway, that's all my take on things. :)

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta
Isn't that more of a "submissive" thing to do?

See, this is all essentially squabbling over semantics. What one person might call a bottom, another would call submissive. What one person calls a sub with spirit, another calls a brat.

In my personal opinion, a bottom is someone who shows no submissive tendencies, and is essentially a pleasure-seeker. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest. All humans are pleasure-seekers. But I would say enduring acts that you don't find enjoyable merely for the pleasure of another was not the act of a bottom, but the act of a submissive. But that's just me. Others will have their own views.

Obviously bottoms want their Tops to enjoy themselves, but I would say a bottom was always in it for themselves, too.

I am a sub, but when I'm playing casually with friends I'm not submitting, I'm bottoming. True submission isn't something I can switch on and off with everyone... I would need a proper dynamic and emotional connection before I felt I could submit fully... but I have no problem bottoming. I love it, actually. And when I play with people as a bottom, I'm in it for me. Yes, I absolutely DO want my Top to enjoy him/herself, but NOT at the expense of my fun. I'm a bit of a hedonist when it comes to playing the bottom.

It's a bit like if I invited someone over for dinner. I'd find out what they liked and cook it for them, but only if I also liked it. If they liked spinach casserole and I absolutely hated it, it would be stupid for me to cook it. I'd either find out what else they liked, or I'd cook spinach casserole for them and something else for myself. Either way, we're both happy.

Anyway, that's all my take on things. :)

I just wanted to make a comment.  This was a very well thought out response to the original question, though I wouldn't agree that it is about semantics. 

Just as you stated, you bottom for, not only the enjoyment of it, but because at this time, you do not feel submissive when you play.   However, with the right person, you could be.  What that says to Me is that you can be both, while still separating one from the other.

I tell people fairly regularly that I do see the roles differently depending on the situation that I'm in.  I can, and do Top.  I'm a Dominant to My clip.  I'm a Mistress to bleaux.  It's not that I change as a person, but I see the roles as different depending on who I'm interacting with.

Again, I wanted to say it was well thought.  I think your explanation is one that just about anyone could understand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I am talking about BDSM interactions that have zero service element to them. No body worship, no foot massages, no cleaning or cooking, no submissive posturing.  Just a man who enjoys being physically tormented in a wide variety of ways to fulfill his partner.

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ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

Damn... I was hoping for pics of male asses.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha
...

When I top, I like a heavy dose of "surrender" in my partner.  ... What if he doesn't enjoy it at the time, but really feels fulfilled afterward?

I am talking about BDSM interactions that have zero service element to them. No body worship, no foot massages, no cleaning or cooking, no submissive posturing.  Just a man who enjoys being physically tormented in a wide variety of ways to fulfill his partner.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA

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ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


In other words, picky guys don't pick you,

Good grief man. Give me a break, will ya.


I'll generalize about you. "No picky girls pick you." Get that stick out of your ass, bytch.

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ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA


Everyone knows guys don't discriminate and will fuck anything with a hole. You know it.

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ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

Damn... I was hoping for pics of male asses.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Are most femdoms only interested in submissives who also bottom? Are there many femdoms who are interested in ONLY bottoms?  If we really try to separate some of the stickiness of the definitions, is the reality that most women are seeking submissives who bottom, or submissives in general?

When I top, I like a heavy dose of "surrender" in my partner.  To that end, his endurance of whatever physical acts I put him through needs to be more sacrificial than self indulgent.  Does that mean I seek a submissive bottom, rather than just a bottom?  What if he's right on the line - 50/50 between self indulgent and sacrificial?  What if he doesn't enjoy it at the time, but really feels fulfilled afterward?

I am talking about BDSM interactions that have zero service element to them. No body worship, no foot massages, no cleaning or cooking, no submissive posturing.  Just a man who enjoys being physically tormented in a wide variety of ways to fulfill his partner.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Are most femdoms only interested in submissives who also bottom? Are there many femdoms who are interested in ONLY bottoms?  If we really try to separate some of the stickiness of the definitions, is the reality that most women are seeking submissives who bottom, or submissives in general?

When I top, I like a heavy dose of "surrender" in my partner.  To that end, his endurance of whatever physical acts I put him through needs to be more sacrificial than self indulgent.  Does that mean I seek a submissive bottom, rather than just a bottom?  What if he's right on the line - 50/50 between self indulgent and sacrificial?  What if he doesn't enjoy it at the time, but really feels fulfilled afterward?

I've genuinely sufferred at times for Mistresses I've served; strictly for their pleasure and enjoyment.  For the most part, the only enjoyment I received from those sessions was watching the pleasure I saw on their face at the time.  That look of pleasure and enjoyment is what got me through the experience without calling a "Red".  The sense of accomplishment I felt afterward was definitely something which I'm proud to recall.  It might be said that those experiences could well be the times we hear of when subs are known to be especially proud to wear the marks of their Mistress for as long as they may last; having a sense of loss when they eventually disappear.  

Fortunately for me, this description matches my preferences in a Domme as well.  It's an area in which I desire to grow in the submission I give to the Mistress I serve.  

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ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

And while I think I could have a satisfying relationship with a woman who wasn't a lifestyle dominant, I don't think I could have one with a woman who didn't at least like to top once in a while.  (I *would*, however, want to be with a woman who actually enjoyed it, rather than a woman who just did it to accommodate me.)

One of the worst feelings I can recall is that of knowing I'd just been placated.   I'm with you pinipedster on being with a woman who enjoys topping you as opposed to accommodating you!

 ...still under consideration with each other