RE: Appreciating male bottoms

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AAkasha -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/2/2008 12:23:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster I would have to say that one reason I would be reluctant to identify as a bottom rather than a sub, is that there don't seem to be many women here looking for bottoms rather than subs. It seems like ads from women stress wanting real, service-oriented submissives. And I think there's a fear of getting the "you ought to go look for a prodomme" response. For that matter, I don't see many women here who identify as tops, rather than dominants. Looking over this thread, I see a number of women who have enjoyed playing with male bottoms. But are there any actually looking for a relationship with a bottom, rather than just occasional play? I have thought about bringing this up in the past myself, because sometimes I am not sure exactly what I am. And while I think I could have a satisfying relationship with a woman who wasn't a lifestyle dominant, I don't think I could have one with a woman who didn't at least like to top once in a while. (I would, however, want to be with a woman who actually enjoyed it, rather than a woman who just did it to accommodate me.) If I had to make a choice to give up topping or giving up "being served" or anything that goes along with being the dominant partner in my relationship, I would NEVER give up topping. I'd keep doing that, and pay a maid, a masseuse, a driver, a cook, whatever. There is a fine amount of relationship nurturing that comes from even a vanilla romance - the cuddling, snuggling, kissing and feeling appreciated. If I was in a relationship that my partner was at least my equal and didn't try to boss me around, I'd give up the rest -- but I can't give up satisfying the hunger I get to see a man helpless or in pain or humiliated for my pleasure and amusement. That's why the idea that some men are in relationships where they 'serve' as almost an exchange (currency) for being topped is odd to me. I don't need that man to be the same person. However, I need my bottoms to be HOT bottoms - HOT, in that they work hard to please my inner sadist, and that requires skills and effort that some men cannot ever grasp. The fact that they put my pleasure above theirs, to some degree, I guess makes them "submissive." But at the end of the day, I'd top a hot switch or vanilla guy in a heartbeat if he could "bring his A game" in a manner that got my rocks off - submissive or not. I do have a need to be the dominant person in my relationship. I have no idea if that's even related to the fact that I am a sadist. There is no "erotic pleasure" in being the one to make the decisions in my relationship, or having all my needs met before his or being pampered on a daily basis. The fact that I am sexually in charge in the bedroom (but still quite happy to be fucked doggy style, mind you), and I get the orgasms on demand and he doesn't, also has nothing to do with my sadistic, topping "needs." My bondage fetish and all the other fetishes are independent, for the most part, of my social wiring. But clearly, I have needs related to topping that are best served by a competent bottom. I have had wonderful submissive partners who were willing to do anything for me, but they did not bottom to me in a manner that pleased me, despite a lot of trying on both ends. Akasha

pinnipedster -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/2/2008 10:53:09 PM)
Well, let me ask a couple of questions then. Assuming I am a bottom looking for a top, how would I go about it? What "bottoming skills" are you looking for? Much of the advice to male subs who aren't sure how to advertise talks about their non-kinky skills -- can you do competent housework? Cook well? Are you a certified massage therapist? An auto mechanic? Or something else that might prove useful to a given Dominant woman. I'm not sure what sort of skills or other qualities a bottom is expected to have. I mean, I can take at least a moderate amount of pain, and greatly enjoy all the bondage I've experienced so far, and really want to experience much more in that area, but what is it about a bottom that punches buttons? Attitude? (If so, do you want enthusiasm? Fear? Resistance?) Flexibility? Role-playing aptitude? The way he moans? Or just a hot body? (And does it make a difference if he's just going to be an occasional play partner, or if you are looking for an actual boyfriend who is also a bottom?) The only real data I have on that from my last few encounters is that one woman loved the way I flinched when she hurt me, but the next couldn't stand it, and I think was disappointed that I didn't make more noise. I admit that my reaction to pain tends to be more physical than verbal -- I probably gasp, but I don't tend to yelp or whimper, and trying to do so, I think, would usually come across as being artificial. Also, I apparently give pretty good foot massages. And love kissing feet. And one woman was oddly gratified when she had me cuffed on her floor and I fell asleep -- she seemed to think it said something that I was comfortable enough when bound to do so. (It wasn't particularly uncomfortable bondage, IIRC, but it wasn't a totally natural sleeping position either.) And there are a lot of things I would be willing to try, and some things you might well get me to beg for. Anyhow, not trying to convince anyone that I'm their perfect bottom (though if anyone thinks so, feel free to write [:D]), just trying to get a notion of what is considered to be a good bottom. I have a notion of what most women are looking for in a good submissive. I personally feel I am someplace in between the two, which might be part of the problem.

AAkasha -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/2/2008 11:01:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster Well, let me ask a couple of questions then. Assuming I am a bottom looking for a top, how would I go about it? What "bottoming skills" are you looking for? Much of the advice to male subs who aren't sure how to advertise talks about their non-kinky skills -- can you do competent housework? Cook well? Are you a certified massage therapist? An auto mechanic? Or something else that might prove useful to a given Dominant woman. I'm not sure what sort of skills or other qualities a bottom is expected to have. I mean, I can take at least a moderate amount of pain, and greatly enjoy all the bondage I've experienced so far, and really want to experience much more in that area, but what is it about a bottom that punches buttons? Attitude? (If so, do you want enthusiasm? Fear? Resistance?) Flexibility? Role-playing aptitude? The way he moans? Or just a hot body? (And does it make a difference if he's just going to be an occasional play partner, or if you are looking for an actual boyfriend who is also a bottom?) The only real data I have on that from my last few encounters is that one woman loved the way I flinched when she hurt me, but the next couldn't stand it, and I think was disappointed that I didn't make more noise. I admit that my reaction to pain tends to be more physical than verbal -- I probably gasp, but I don't tend to yelp or whimper, and trying to do so, I think, would usually come across as being artificial. Also, I apparently give pretty good foot massages. And love kissing feet. And one woman was oddly gratified when she had me cuffed on her floor and I fell asleep -- she seemed to think it said something that I was comfortable enough when bound to do so. (It wasn't particularly uncomfortable bondage, IIRC, but it wasn't a totally natural sleeping position either.) And there are a lot of things I would be willing to try, and some things you might well get me to beg for. Anyhow, not trying to convince anyone that I'm their perfect bottom (though if anyone thinks so, feel free to write [:D]), just trying to get a notion of what is considered to be a good bottom. I have a notion of what most women are looking for in a good submissive. I personally feel I am someplace in between the two, which might be part of the problem. I think a successful and competent bottom is experienced at reading the needs and emotions of his dominant partner so that he can satisfy her. He has to be very perceptive and intuitive and really hone those skills. That said, he's probably a bit of a natural flirt but not in an obnoxious way, but he knows what women like, and how to get into their head a little bit. He is able to be "present" while bottoming in that he can be inside her head and inside his own head at the same time. I think good bottoms ask a lot of intuitive questions before and after and get a sense of the dominant's desires and why she needs and enjoys what she wants. I think it's a lot like being a great lover, kisser and excellent at foreplay - he's sensual, erotic, passionate, exciting. He knows when to resist and when to surrender, and he can read a lot in her eyes, body language and non verbal cues. He can also balance between his own vulnerability and his ability to roleplay when necessary. Probably a great way to find out more would be to ask a professional female submissive/bottom, I think - these ladies must "bring their A game" to pro sessions with men they do not know, and be exciting and sexy to them while remaining believable, present, and real in their reactions. Akasha

pixelslave -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 6:47:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I think a successful and competent bottom is experienced at reading the needs and emotions of his dominant partner so that he can satisfy her. He has to be very perceptive and intuitive and really hone those skills. That said, he's probably a bit of a natural flirt but not in an obnoxious way, but he knows what women like, and how to get into their head a little bit. He is able to be "present" while bottoming in that he can be inside her head and inside his own head at the same time. I think good bottoms ask a lot of intuitive questions before and after and get a sense of the dominant's desires and why she needs and enjoys what she wants. I think it's a lot like being a great lover, kisser and excellent at foreplay - he's sensual, erotic, passionate, exciting. He knows when to resist and when to surrender, and he can read a lot in her eyes, body language and non verbal cues. He can also balance between his own vulnerability and his ability to roleplay when necessary. Probably a great way to find out more would be to ask a professional female submissive/bottom, I think - these ladies must "bring their A game" to pro sessions with men they do not know, and be exciting and sexy to them while remaining believable, present, and real in their reactions. Akasha Interesting description Akasha. Wouldn't you also add that to be a "good" bottom, a male would also need to have a fairly high pain threshold? My impression is that most Dommes who seek bottoms also have something of a preference for "pain sluts", if you'll excuse the expression. [&:] - pixel Lady Pact's bleaux still under each other's consideration [;)]

Madame4a -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 7:25:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I think a successful and competent bottom is experienced at reading the needs and emotions of his dominant partner so that he can satisfy her. He has to be very perceptive and intuitive and really hone those skills. That said, he's probably a bit of a natural flirt but not in an obnoxious way, but he knows what women like, and how to get into their head a little bit. He is able to be "present" while bottoming in that he can be inside her head and inside his own head at the same time. I think good bottoms ask a lot of intuitive questions before and after and get a sense of the dominant's desires and why she needs and enjoys what she wants. I think it's a lot like being a great lover, kisser and excellent at foreplay - he's sensual, erotic, passionate, exciting. He knows when to resist and when to surrender, and he can read a lot in her eyes, body language and non verbal cues. He can also balance between his own vulnerability and his ability to roleplay when necessary. Probably a great way to find out more would be to ask a professional female submissive/bottom, I think - these ladies must "bring their A game" to pro sessions with men they do not know, and be exciting and sexy to them while remaining believable, present, and real in their reactions. Akasha I think that's great.. but I guess I'm different in that I feel like it can be a lot less complicated. Tonight is my example. I'm going out to play with a friend who is also a sometime roomate and sometime play partner. We are friends, he's a bottom and masochist, I'm a Dominant, who loves to Top and hasn't in ages. For success -- its kind of like good sex... everyone reacts honestly, you do things you both like... and hopefully everyone has a good time. shrug Maybe I got this wrong, but it does sound like a submissive, not a bottom. I tend to think of people that are purely bottoms to not necessarily "reading the needs and emotions of his dominant partner so that he can satisfy her. " .. or need to get into someone's head, or even make themselves vulnerable... I suppose I'm thinking of this in terms of strictly Top/bottom play -- which in my mind is so much more physical, although not completely. While I am first dominant, top perhaps second, the bottom I will play with tonight isn't in anyway submissive to me. I'll stop.. I need coffee...

AAkasha -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 8:31:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave Interesting description Akasha. Wouldn't you also add that to be a "good" bottom, a male would also need to have a fairly high pain threshold? My impression is that most Dommes who seek bottoms also have something of a preference for "pain sluts", if you'll excuse the expression. [&:] - pixel Lady Pact's bleaux still under each other's consideration [;)] Not for me. The amount of pain a bottom can take doesn't matter most of the time (sometimes, yes, I am in the mood to do a lot of pain, but prefer chemistry to intensity). However, the way he reacts to pain is key. Akasha

pixelslave -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 2:19:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha However, the way he reacts to pain is key. Doesn't that kind of go without saying? I doubt anyone really enjoys being with a non-responsive partner! - pixel Lady Pact's bleaux ...still considering each other [;)]

subtex -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 9:27:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Not for me. The amount of pain a bottom can take doesn't matter most of the time (sometimes, yes, I am in the mood to do a lot of pain, but prefer chemistry to intensity). However, the way he reacts to pain is key. Akasha This is something I've often wondered about. Why would someone necessarily be interested in someone who can take a lot of pain? It seems a sadist could get just as good reactions with less effort when playing with someone who can't take a lot of pain. What I came up with is maybe the top likes to get the feeling that the bottom is enjoying what is going on. I think maybe that's what people mean when they talk about a pain slut. Am I near the ballpark? Although pain isn't my favorite I do enjoy it on some level. Maybe it's more fun to whip someone who lives for it.

LadyPact -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/3/2008 9:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtex quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Not for me. The amount of pain a bottom can take doesn't matter most of the time (sometimes, yes, I am in the mood to do a lot of pain, but prefer chemistry to intensity). However, the way he reacts to pain is key. Akasha This is something I've often wondered about. Why would someone necessarily be interested in someone who can take a lot of pain? It seems a sadist could get just as good reactions with less effort when playing with someone who can't take a lot of pain. What I came up with is maybe the top likes to get the feeling that the bottom is enjoying what is going on. I think maybe that's what people mean when they talk about a pain slut. Am I near the ballpark? Although pain isn't my favorite I do enjoy it on some level. Maybe it's more fun to whip someone who lives for it. If I may, actually, there are advantages for both. The thrill about playing with a masochist who can take pain is one particular kind of thrill. I can let My sadist out with her full teeth, uninhibited, inflicting the kind of pain I chose, as intense as I chose. Someone who can't take a lot of pain, I appreciate on a different level. When I play with them, it's about how far they can go and how I can take them beyond experiences that they've had prior. Both of these are rewarding in their own way. Think of it as two different types of amusement park rides. Maybe one is like the Tower of Doom and takes you to a great height. The other, perhaps a roller coaster. Both of these are great thrills and even if you sometimes prefer one over the other, they are both still a hell of a lot of fun. It's something like that. Each experience, you appreciate on it's own level. Each play experience is unique. I've had the privilege in this life to play with people who could take as much pain as I could dish out through the full spectrum of taking the scene "cherry" and barely flogging them beyond a whisper. All of them have been fulfilling. All of them have been wonderful experiences for Me. I hope this helps to answer the questions that you have. Sometimes, My passion doesn't allow Me to be as articulate as I would like to be.

Dilseachd -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/4/2008 12:13:28 AM)
The person who isnt into pain in truth probably gives as much of themselves to the level you can go with them as the person who can take a singletailing or caning until the blood freely flows.....but damn...isnt it nice to be able to play with someone who can indeed go to that point? I think thats the biggest differance. One of my former Ladies used to make that observation. She would tell me that her boy who wept after only a light beating gave her as much or more as me..who she could beat to a bloody pulp....and I agree. Regards

subtex -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/4/2008 5:24:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I hope this helps to answer the questions that you have. Sometimes, My passion doesn't allow Me to be as articulate as I would like to be. Yes, thanks LadyPact that's a good explaination (and articulate btw). Bill

marsneedswomen -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/4/2008 10:48:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA Everyone knows guys don't discriminate and will fuck anything with a hole. You know it. That explains why I tried to fuck an electrical plug....thanks for clearing that up for me. mnw

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/5/2008 6:46:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marsneedswomen quote: ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA Everyone knows guys don't discriminate and will fuck anything with a hole. You know it. That explains why I tried to fuck an electrical plug....thanks for clearing that up for me. mnw If you need more help, call me.

hardbodysub -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/5/2008 8:39:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA I hope this doesn't sadden or frustrate you [more than you already are] but I wasn't moved by our talks one bit. Try some more, maybe you'll make it happen. NOT. OK .... this is relevant to ... anything? Try calming down a bit, and maybe you'll realize it's just not all about you.

OttersSwim -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/5/2008 9:04:38 AM)
Would you two like a kiddie pool of lime jello to sort this all out? [;)]

MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/5/2008 9:30:50 AM)
okay misogynist, 1: I am calm - SORRY to burst that bubble your in, 2: I couldn't care less if things were all about me or not. It's not important nor is it necessary. Who burned you?

HarryVanWinkle -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/5/2008 7:06:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Are you at all interesting in men who are not submissive at all, but are bottoms? Have you had experience with bottoms who were better at pleasing you, compared to a submissive that bottomed to you? What about switches who were not submissive, but liked to be on the other end of the whip, or bondage play or sensation play? I have never received an email on collarme from a man who identified as a bottom. Then again, I don't think I have ever received an introduction from a male bottom anywhere. Where are they? Akasha <<<<<< Right here.

LadyPact -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/6/2008 4:09:28 AM)
After reading the profile, Harry, I do want to say that I'm glad to see what you say there. You really are one of those folks who specifically point out that you're into the top/bottom thing rather than D/s. (Btw, I happened to enjoy the read. Ty.) I'm kind of wondering something on the subject now. Would folks be more prone to express they were a top or bottom if those were actual role selections on the site?

Alixandria -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/6/2008 7:00:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm kind of wondering something on the subject now. Would folks be more prone to express they were a top or bottom if those were actual role selections on the site? I think they would and I believe there are more who prefer those roles than many here would believe. I know that when I was exploring I had no interest in D/s (found it a turn off in fact). But D/s seems to be the only show in town sometimes. On the down side, you could expect threads on "what's the difference between a dom and a top" in the same way as the sub/slave debates which I believe originate from the necessity to make that choice while registering. Alix

AAkasha -> RE: Appreciating male bottoms (10/6/2008 11:29:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dilseachd The person who isnt into pain in truth probably gives as much of themselves to the level you can go with them as the person who can take a singletailing or caning until the blood freely flows.....but damn...isnt it nice to be able to play with someone who can indeed go to that point? I think thats the biggest differance. One of my former Ladies used to make that observation. She would tell me that her boy who wept after only a light beating gave her as much or more as me..who she could beat to a bloody pulp....and I agree. Regards I found this post that I wrote in 1999 on the same topic, and it's still true for me today: Another random musing. As a dominant, which is more appealing (all other things being equal - attraction, etc.) A submissive that cannot take much (pain wimp, terrified of humiliation, hates bondage..) but looks at you with adoring eyes and says, "I'll take as much as I can, but understand this is only for you." vs. the submissive that you can really put through the wringer, can step up and take it all, and then some, and let you really stretch yourself as a dominant? I have been thinking a lot recently about how submissives sometimes measure their worth in how much they can "take" -- either by a long, wide list of torments they're ready to accept, or by the level and intensity of which they can take. Or, in the more unrealistic sense, the subs that say, "I will do anything to please" (yeah, right. But that is another story). For me, it has never been about how much a person can take, but more about why they will take it, and how much they are willing to stretch for me. I don't care if the submissive is a total wuss, relatively speaking, who can barely take a light swat on the ass. If he offers it up to me, earnestly, and for me, that's much more appealing than a submissive who I can walk all over (but, then again, anyone else can, too). I guess it comes down to relationship vs. act again -- do you seek the relationship and then the act, or the act, and hopefully the relationship falls into place. To me, it is much more about a man's willingness to suffer or put aside his desires to make me happy - and that has little to do with his, perhaps, strict "limits" as to what he can take. Thoughts?

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