RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (Full Version)

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Joenextdoor -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 7:52:01 AM)

McCain suspended the campaign by not making appearances and not running ads.  Effectively, it stopped.  If the other side had done this, maybe the media would have been 100% focused on DC, and maybe, would have done a better job of explaining just what this bill is, so that the average person would understand it.




NumberSix -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 7:55:46 AM)

In counter-point, then again; maybe not.  Seems we are all pretty focused on this dogshit legislation, right now.  I understand it, and don't like it.  McCain didn't take my eye off the ball, as in Iraq.






slvemike4u -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 8:05:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

McCain suspended the campaign by not making appearances and not running ads.  Effectively, it stopped.  If the other side had done this, maybe the media would have been 100% focused on DC, and maybe, would have done a better job of explaining just what this bill is, so that the average person would understand it.
And again Joe,I am left wondering about this media shortage you keep referring to.Or is it the attention deficit of the American voter you are worried about.BTW I never noticed the ads stopped....




MasterG2kTR -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 8:09:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

The seeds of this whole mess were planted in the first Clinton administration.  After 4 years, he saw the mess that was going to happen, but for whatever reason, he didn't push to fix it.  It was further spurred on by Barney Frank who demanded that Fannie and Freddie encourage banks to give loans to those who don't qualify.  Housing starts went up, as well as housing prices.  Most if those loans for less than qualified people went out with no money down.  These homes were over valued.  When the housing bubble began to burst, and prices started falling back to more a more true valuation, ARMs reset and the foreclosure mess began.  Once that began, it fed itself, in that as more were foreclosed, it depressed prices which caused more resets, and more foreclosures.  I am tired of hearing that the fault lies with Bush.  He has been a convenent boogeyman for the last 7 years.  He was not in office when the rules were relaxed.  He is not guilt free, as he could have made this an issue, but really all parties were asleep at the switch anyway.  In this country, we do a poor job of looking ahead, and only seem to react to disaster. 
  The last point I want to make is about ACORN.  ACORN was going out and encouraging poor people to buy homes.  They helped them find lenders, helped with the applications, and basically put people in this situation.  They pressured lenders to make loans, and now they are calling those same lenders "predatory".  This organization needs to be looked at by the Justice Dept., but that won't happen as the Democrats won't let it.  They are corrupt and committing voter fraud, but nobody seems to care.
  We need to get back to a situation where people who buy homes actually have a documented income, an acceptable credit score, and a down payment of 5-10%.  What on earth did Barney Frank think would happen if we got away from this standard??  The idea is a good one.  Create home ownership among those that might not otherwise become owners, but we see now the huge mess this has created.  It all goes back to what I have always believed....You can't help those who won't help themselves.  Government should not give people things, but instead, create an environment where hard work rewards the individual with the things that they want, such as a home. 



Ok, so if Bush has known about this for the past 12+ years (since as you state that the problem started in the first Clinton administration) why did he wait until now to do anything about it? He should have put a stop to it 8 years ago when he first took office. Clearly he IS the boogeyman and is using this to make himself and his party look good as he exits the office. Nothing more than political posturing.

A good portion of the blame also falls on the idiots who think they can live beyond their means by biting off more debt than they can handle. When you are stretched so thin financially that if any one part of the equation fails it will all collapse like a house of cards, you are not being fiscally responsible. I have always left myself a cushion zone.I am by no means rich or even well off (less than $50k/yr), yet I own my home and will have it paid off about 4 years early, and that is in addition to paying child support for the past 10 years!




rulemylife -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 8:13:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub

Actually, this is a common fallacy. Since 2002, the Republican party - specifically, John McCain and others - had warned us no less than 17 times that an economic crisis was increasingly likely as the subprime scandal took off.

Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o for more information on the root of the problem.

Interesting to note, guess who's received the most money - ever - from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? That'd be Obama.

Finally, the Democrats, being in the Majority, do not even need the Republicans to pass the bailout bill. So why on earth are they waiting around for them? Cause they need to be able to claim complicity should something go wrong.

Always handy to have those Republicans around to dump on should the shit hit the fan from this. No one bothers to check further


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really find this truly fascinating.

Republicans have held control of Congress for almost 12 of the last 14 years, the White House for almost eight, yet somehow Democrats are to blame what was already spiralling out of control by the time they gained the majority less than two years ago.

You do realize the bailout was proposed by the Rebublican Aministration and crafted by Bush's appointees?  Yet you make it sound like it was put forth by the Democrats in Congress.

Too funny!

Btw, in regard to your first "fallacy", this is from an interview John McCain gave to the Keene (NH) Sentinel this past December:
 
“But so, in this whole new derivative stuff, and SIBs and all of this kind of new ways of packaging mortgages together and all that is something that frankly I don’t know a lot about.
"But I do rely on a lot of smart people that I have that are both in my employ and acquaintances of mine.  And most of them did not anticipate this.  Most of them, I mean I can find some that did.  But, a guy that’s on my staff named Doug Holtz-Eakin, who was once the head of the Office of Management and Budget, said that there was nervousness out there.  There’s nervousness.  There was nervousness that we had such a long period of prosperity without a downturn because of the history of our economy.  But I don’t know of hardly anybody, with the exception of a handful, that said ‘wait a minute, this thing is getting completely out of hand and is overheating.'
"So, I’d like to tell you that I did anticipate it, but I have to give you straight talk, I did not.” 





cloudboy -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 8:49:00 AM)


I see others already made my point.

The Republicans have shown zero, nada, zippo ability to run a responsible US budget, its no wonder they couldn't read any of the balance sheets in the private sector to foresee a financial crisis.




rulemylife -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 8:50:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor


  We need to get back to a situation where people who buy homes actually have a documented income, an acceptable credit score, and a down payment of 5-10%.  What on earth did Barney Frank think would happen if we got away from this standard??  The idea is a good one.  Create home ownership among those that might not otherwise become owners, but we see now the huge mess this has created.  It all goes back to what I have always believed....You can't help those who won't help themselves.  Government should not give people things, but instead, create an environment where hard work rewards the individual with the things that they want, such as a home. 


Unfortunately, you are trying to oversimplify the issue.  Only a part of the problem was extending credit to people who would not have qualified under previous rules. 

The primary problem was the belief by both lenders and borrowers that the increase in housing prices was sustainable.

I've seen foreclosures on homes valued in the millions.  Many people with good credit bought more home than they could afford based on the belief it would continue to increase in value, a practice ecouraged by mortgage lenders to people in all economic brackets.




bestbabync -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:07:47 AM)

both republicans & democrats will vote on this bail out bill!  Joe is right, these practices began during the Clinton admin and continued all through the Bush admin.  what does that tell us?  the POTUS both dem & rep are both responsible.  both pawns imho.




Musicmystery -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:10:08 AM)

Ron is right. This started in 1980 with the push for deregulation as a panacea.




cjan -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:13:36 AM)

Sounds fair to me...we get porked, should be some bacon in it for us too, eh ?




DomKen -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:20:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

Actually Obama did do legal work for ACORN. 

As an associate of a law firm ACORN hired. Would you then declare that a lawyer whose firm defended the KKK worked for the KKK?




Musicmystery -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:21:41 AM)

quote:

Sounds fair to me...we get porked, should be some bacon in it for us too, eh ?


Morning in America.




cjan -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:44:19 AM)

[sm=rofl.gif]




michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Democrats trying to force pork into bailout bill (9/28/2008 9:49:05 AM)

i'm still waiting to find out where the surprise in this topic is...afterall...this is American politics... tacking on stupid things to smart things just to sneak the past the public is standard procedure in America...isn't it...just like the lying and deceit that government shoves at us on a daily basis. i, for one, am not surprised.




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