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Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 3:38:14 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think a very challenging aspect of relationships is learning to accept love from others. I am not referring to believing that you deserve to be loved, but learning to accept and appreciate the way the other person demonstrates their love for you. We each have our own way of demonstrating the affection that we feel for another person and expectations of how it should be demonstrated to us. Conflict can occur when reality does not meet expectations.

I think often people grow up and they create this ideal in their head of how someone will behave when they care about you. At one time or another, I am sure that we have all heard or maybe even possibly used the statement, “If you really loved me, you would/wouldn’t do…” It is a manipulative statement designed to get someone to show their love in a way that is acceptable.

In a D/s or M/s relationship, the Dominant sets up the structure in a way that is pleasing for them. For Dominants in a loving D/s relationship, do you require the behaviors that will demonstrate this affection in a way you expect? If so, do you think that it inhibits your submissive/slave from showing you affection in a way that is true to their inner-selves? As a submissive do you find alternate ways to show affection that will fit within the structure of the relationship? What do you do when the Dominant does not show affection in a way that meets your expectations?

A small personal example: one way I typically show affection is by using terms of endearment, dear, honey, etc. However, I am restricted in using only “my Lord” as a form of address. It has taken a significant conscious effort on my part not to use any other terms of endearment with him and address him only the way he expects. Over the last few months I have made the mental adjustments to consider “my Lord” as a term of endearment. There are other similar examples like this where I am restricted in behaviors that I have typically used to show affection and now I must find new ways to express myself.

I am lucky in that my Lord demonstrates affection in many of the ways that I would expect. But I also made sure that I chose wisely before offering myself to him and I am in a relationship that allows me to be true to my inner-self and where demonstrated behaviors are closely aligned with my expectations of giving and receiving affection.


Knight's kyra
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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 3:46:27 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

As a submissive do you find alternate ways to show affection that will fit within the structure of the relationship? What do you do when the Dominant does not show affection in a way that meets your expectations?


Hmm, not an easy question to answer. You are correct in your assumption that everyone shows affection differently, and that often it is not in a way that we often want, need, or like. As a submissive, I do find ways to show my affection that is pleasing to my Dom/Master. It could be nothing more than a spontaneous hug, or a smile at the right time, or just a look in the eyes. From the receiving end, I have been in two very wonderful relationships. The first with my husband, who was the kind who NEVER said the words 'I love you', but every day, he showed me that he did. The second was with my first Dom, who also, never said that he loved me, but showed instead with actions how much he cared.

While the words are indeed nice to hear, for me, they are not a necessity. The old saying that actions speak louder....really is true, if you take the time to watch and understand :)

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 5:16:04 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
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quote:

What do you do when the Dominant does not show affection in a way that meets your expectations?


i like to be very touchy feely with my partner. i think it is one way i know of to show my affection intimately with my partner that discludes everyone else. Master however doesnt like to be touched much, one of the reasons is he is ticklish, this is very difficult for me. i went through a period of feeling rejected.I guess cuz he doesnt like it himself, he doesnt do it to me either. i still dont know if im completely used to the idea, in fact i know im not cuz im having a slight emotional reaction to writing this.
Dont get me wrong, we cuddle lots..but just those moments when we are alone, laying together or whatever,, i'd like to be able to stroke his thigh..or..well you know.
He shows me he loves me in lots of other ways that do meet my expectations though.
thanks for the topic kyra, it was a good one.

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 5:21:21 PM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I am sure that we have all heard or maybe even possibly used the statement, “If you really loved me, you would/wouldn’t do…” It is a manipulative statement designed to get someone to show their love in a way that is acceptable.


I'd just like to insert a quick note here about this phrase. While I do believe it's manipulative I don't feel that it's used to get someone to show their love in an acceptable way.

I feel that it's used by people to pressure others into doing something that the other person isn't comfortable with. Ex: "If you really loved me you'd have sex with me."

I can't see this as an acceptable show of love when it was coerced in an orchestrated attempt to push someone beyond what they feel is moral, acceptable, good, etc.

_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 5:32:26 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia


quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I am sure that we have all heard or maybe even possibly used the statement, “If you really loved me, you would/wouldn’t do…” It is a manipulative statement designed to get someone to show their love in a way that is acceptable.


I'd just like to insert a quick note here about this phrase. While I do believe it's manipulative I don't feel that it's used to get someone to show their love in an acceptable way.

I feel that it's used by people to pressure others into doing something that the other person isn't comfortable with. Ex: "If you really loved me you'd have sex with me."

I can't see this as an acceptable show of love when it was coerced in an orchestrated attempt to push someone beyond what they feel is moral, acceptable, good, etc.



Dahlia,

I agree and I did not mean to infer that it was acceptable show of love, but what the person making the comment considered acceptable. The sentence I wrote was not that clear in making that distinction.

Thank you for pointing that out.

kyra

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 5:49:25 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a very affectionate person and love to touch as well as be touched. When I am seeking a sub for a loving D/s relationship, he needs to be the same way, and it needs to come natural to him. This means that I will never require that my sub be a particular way with me when it comes to showing affection. We need to be a strong match from the start with how we demonstrate and accept love and affection.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 7:12:03 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i'm allowed to demostrate affection in any way i see fit, i'm even allowed NOT to demostrate affection.

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 7:42:09 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I do think that sometimes there are unrealistic expectations of how affection is expressed. I cannot count how many times I've heard women say (never mind how many times I said it myself in the first year or so of my marriage) "I wish he were more romantic." I had to redefine my expectations of what romance was so that I could accept the many forms of showing affection my husband did do rather than clinging to my unrealistic Knight on a White Horse syndrome. It was a lengthy process but I am able to accept the little things he does that really are very sweet and romantic. They're not the grand gestures I had originally hoped for but they are meaningful nonetheless.

However, there was still a part of me that at times felt unfulfilled. Despite giving my expectations a reality check there were times when I still felt I wasn't getting what I needed. I'm someone who experiences love predominantly through touch. I need a hug, a hand on my shoulder, a snuggle on the couch, a quick grope, etc just as much as some other people need to hear those terms of endearment or "I love you." My husband is not an overtly touchy person but when I explained this to him he did make a conscious effort to show me affection in a way that made it a meaningful experience for me.

It wasn't until years later...last year, actually...that I came across a book called The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Despite the sometimes hokey or seemingly simplistic way it was stated, this book made great sense to me. The basic premis is that different people experience love in different ways. If the person's significant other doesn't express love in their preferred 'love language' then the person's 'love tank' (I know, hokey!) gradually depletes and empties. The five love languages he describes are:

1. Words of Affirmation
2. Receiving Gifts
3. Quality Time
4. Acts of Service
5. Physical Touch

I think that for some people (myself and, obviously, the OP) there is some ability to adjust or at least appreciate other love languages. However, for me, the need for expressions in my preferred language (physical touch) didn't lessen by being able to appreciate the many acts of service my husband performed (his predominant expressive language). I still needed that to keep my 'tank' full. With a full tank I was able to give back to him and a mutually satisfactory feedback loop was created. While it was a bit of a mental hurdle for me to get past the hokey way it was presented, once I did I realized that the reasoning behind Chapman's theory was sound, at least for me.

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 7:51:30 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		mmmmmmmmmm how about the "Knight on a Dark Horse" *G*


thank you for the post... I think I will be looking for that book.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 7:52:35 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Hehe. That definitely floats my boat

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 8:07:46 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		This is a great topic , thank you so much for posting it. I could really relate to what you wrote and am going to spend more time thinking about it. While I do not have this issue in regards to affection I can draw a strong parallel to when I attempt to have a conversation with the Owner. His speech patterns and mine are very opposite, also I apparently have a problem with what he sees as interrupting , while for me it seem a more natural ebb and flow of conversation. I have become inhibited in talking to him because I want to please him. It is something I really struggle with and find very frustrating.

< Message edited by kisshou -- 12/2/2005 8:09:26 PM >

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 8:59:45 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		but learning to accept and appreciate the way the other person demonstrates their love for you.
=====

hmmmmmmm.
okay. i know. i am usually the stone cold s.o.b.---and most everyone steers clear of me because of it...and usually i like it that way. get the hell outta my way and leave me alone.......

no. i don't have people skills. never have. never wanted to. bah humbug..

yeah-------you guessed it..Mistress is trying to break me down and melt that cold iron heart i got.

learn how?

don't act like it's all THAT easy!


time might tell,??????????


happy holidays




_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 9:31:40 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I like those five love languages. For me, that is an excellent way to express that - in all types of loving relationships. (Friendships, parent-child, etc.)

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 9:50:29 PM   
galsdelight


Posts: 9
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:


This is a great topic , thank you so much for posting it. I could really relate to what you wrote and am going to spend more time thinking about it. While I do not have this issue in regards to affection I can draw a strong parallel to when I attempt to have a conversation with the Owner. His speech patterns and mine are very opposite, also I apparently have a problem with what he sees as interrupting , while for me it seem a more natural ebb and flow of conversation. I have become inhibited in talking to him because I want to please him. It is something I really struggle with and find very frustrating.



I know exactly how this feels Kisshou, my Sir does the same thing and I have recently found myself just sitting back listening to Him instead of conversing and when He asks for my opinion I find that I cant offer one unless it was really strong in my mind. In a way yes since then W/we have become a little stunted but I have also seen that I am able to see more of His insight and understand Him more, but He is annoyed at my reluctance recently to communicate. Something I have to work on is to balance how He expects us to interact while still adhering to His right to speak fully before I offer my opinion
Ahh the evil web we weave......


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What goes up must come down

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/2/2005 10:36:43 PM   
MistressYlwa


Posts: 263
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline 		I am not opposed to signs of affection from a slave. I am more reticent, only because I prefer to stay emotionally distanced. But hope that the things I require of a slave, eventually are done out of affection rather than because it is what I demand.

Mistress Ylwa


You see what power is - holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them! - Amy Tan

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/3/2005 2:11:30 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

I am not opposed to signs of affection from a slave. I am more reticent, only because I prefer to stay emotionally distanced. But hope that the things I require of a slave, eventually are done out of affection rather than because it is what I demand.

Mistress Ylwa



I must wonder how that works for you over time MistressYlwa, I'm one who like MsIncognito needs genuine affection shown by touch. A Sub or Slaves needs may
not be high on many Dominants lists, but if a need goes unfufilled long enough it
will eat away at the fabric of the relationship to a person like this.

Q

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/3/2005 5:04:33 AM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		I recently gave back my collar because of this. This is a subject very close to my heart right now, and its given me much to think over.
As a submissive, i felt restrained from showing affection spontaneously. I felt i had to translate it into subspeak all the time.
My natural spirit took a dive. I felt i was failing too often, as he'd pull me up. It all got messed up.
It is taking a lot of communicating through. I am not sure where this is heading.
a scary place sometimes

excellent thread, one that will touch many hearts i feel

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/3/2005 5:12:24 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I must have affection. And I fear it deeply. My family are not a bunch of huggers, and I've made it a point to hug my kids a lot. To me, signs of affection are tied to intimacy. I want that abruptness, hardness, dismissivness, and coldness (at times), but I deeply hunger for affection as well.

_____________________________

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/3/2005 5:19:33 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

A small personal example: one way I typically show affection is by using terms of endearment, dear, honey, etc. However, I am restricted in using only “my Lord” as a form of address. It has taken a significant conscious effort on my part not to use any other terms of endearment with him and address him only the way he expects. Over the last few months I have made the mental adjustments to consider “my Lord” as a term of endearment. There are other similar examples like this where I am restricted in behaviors that I have typically used to show affection and now I must find new ways to express myself.



Funny I had that exact problem too in the beginning. I call everyone I care about hun, sweetie, sugar. I'm Southern so I even call the bag boy at the grocery store darlin'. My Sir didn't want me calling him terms of endearment like that and it drove me nuts. I had all this mushy feelings for this man and couldn't express it the way I was used to doing. But, I have come to think of Sir in the same light as I do other endearments. And I will call him my Joe or Daddy and those are both very close to both our hearts.

I'm truly blessed that I have a dom that is wonderful at showing love and affection to me. He actually has commented that he hopes it doesn't get in the way of my training because he could easily spoil me way too much.

We are long distance so to us touching is the thing we crave the most. I once asked him if I will have to ask permission to touch him and he said no way. I can touch him all I want. We're both longing for the day we can get our hands all over each other.


< Message edited by Littlepita -- 12/3/2005 5:20:20 AM >

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Accepting Demonstrations of Affection - 12/3/2005 5:31:41 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

At one time or another, I am sure that we have all heard or maybe even possibly used the statement, “If you really loved me, you would/wouldn’t do…” It is a manipulative statement designed to get someone to show their love in a way that is acceptable.


this slave always hated hearing that from people and would break them of it by responding.."IF you really loved me you wouldn't start sentences with 'If you really loved me...'"

quote:

As a submissive do you find alternate ways to show affection that will fit within the structure of the relationship?


this slave is allowed to show affection and does so every chance Master gives her...kissing His feet when putting on or taking off His shoes, etc.

quote:

What do you do when the Dominant does not show affection in a way that meets your expectations?


Master is a very affectionate person, including PDA- He attributes it to His Italian upbringing! this slave was well aware of that BEFORE the collar went on and something that she accepted...this slave has no "expectations" save that He will behave as affectionate as HE wants to, WHEN He wants to. It is not for this slave to dictate Master's behavior, ever.

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