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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 2:54:23 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

No sir, give me a leader, not a "server" to the people.


Then you must truly love the Decider.  He doesn't listen to anyone. 

That's worked out pretty well hasn't it?

(in reply to corysub)
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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 4:00:29 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

No sir, give me a leader, not a "server" to the people.


Then you must truly love the Decider.  He doesn't listen to anyone. 

That's worked out pretty well hasn't it?


You do understand, of course, that George Bush does not control the purse.  Bush has made lots decisions that surprised even me, but it's Congress that votes the money. Congress votes ALWAYS in its self-interest it seems, and not the public. 
Nancy Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Obama, I understand, are in the democrat party, a party that has controlled Congress for the past two years, and achieved the lowest rating in the polls (one poll they don't wave) because of their partisan, dysfunctional management, and not caring about the voice of the people. 
We keep being told by this group of political under-achievers that the majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq...we are never told by the same group that the majority of Americans want our borders protected against the invasion across our southern border!  Gosh...wonder why that is...one of the only things this group of egotists actually agree with Bush about...and why his popularity is also suffering.
And now, while the country is on the brink of the worst financial disaster since the depression, Nancy takes the opportunity to bash Bush and the republican party in her final five minutes before the vote on the rescue plan.  And than she attacks the "republicans" for not coming up with ten more votes...when 100 of her own party voted against what she said she supported.  I can't imagine any speaker of the house not being able to get 10 or 12 more votes out of a hundred if she REALLY wanted those votes.  Those commitee appointments are like purple robes of royalty to Congress...and Nancy can make or break you in Congress.  She had a moment to be a statesman but could not rise above her mediocrity.   She is a server of her constituents...a leader...well, you decide.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 6:49:04 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		From what I've seen, she has trouble getting her shadow to follow her.  It is people like her and her cronies that made me decide to leave the Democrat party.  If they were in a heard of cattle, they would be cut so they didn't contaminate the breeding stock.  Its a shame that we embrace mediocrity and even inferiority in our leaders.  I am so often amazed that the Bush bashers cannot see that he is not the only useless piece of crap in the Washington toilet bowl.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:01:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

From what I've seen, she has trouble getting her shadow to follow her.  It is people like her and her cronies that made me decide to leave the Democrat party.  If they were in a heard of cattle, they would be cut so they didn't contaminate the breeding stock.  Its a shame that we embrace mediocrity and even inferiority in our leaders.  I am so often amazed that the Bush bashers cannot see that he is not the only useless piece of crap in the Washington toilet bowl.


Actually, the herd mentality in rubber-stamping Bush led to culling their numbers in 2006.

Lawmakers aren't supposed to march in lockstep--they should represent their districts, and this time, they did. Far more Dems (numbers and percentages) voted for it, probably only due to Pelosi. Republican leaders couldn't get even a third of their members to support their president and presidential candidate.

Typically Washington has sharply partisan votes. Republicans balked on this one---yes, along with a number of Dems.

But now we get a shot a hopefully better bill.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:04:48 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		So you're saying that far fewer Democrats listened to the people.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:06:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		I'm saying, Irish, you can't argue it both ways. Your beef was Pelosi. Or maybe you just wanted to beef.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:24:10 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		My beef with Pelosi still stands.  She is ineffective as Speaker of the House.  I doubt that very many people voted for anything because of her.  More likely it was that they voted how they voted regardless of her opinion.  The Dems need to get better leadership in Congress. 
And, I have yet to argue it both ways.  I merely pointed out that, per your own statement, more republicans listened to the people.  Not something I am used to hearing you say.
As for a better bill, the only way a bill would be an acceptable bailout IMO would be if they bought off the loans that are failing at pennies on the dollar and let the crippled companies go down the toilet.  People would then pay back the government and do it far cheaper than their original loans.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:32:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, first you said it was Pelosi's leadership. Then you picked up on perhaps more Dems second-guessing their district's opposition. That's two different reasons.

The Pubs wanted to pass this and blame it on the Dems. If Pelosi is incapable of leading her party, Republican leaders are even more so.

My own representative is a Republican. He voted for it.

The real problem is that the bill sucks. And actually, I agree with you that the money would be better spent at the consumer end than the financial institution end. There ARE solvent banks who made better decisions. And consumers are 2/3 of the economy---that's a far more effective solution to me too. Propping up financial institutions is a bandaid that leaves the fundamental problem untouched.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/30/2008 3:33:32 PM >

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 3:37:02 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps I should have put a question mark at the end of that statement.  Still, it is hardly an either/or.  Pelosi's leadership can still suck even if more republicans listened for the first time ever. 
Maybe we should try writing the lower end plan to our congressmen and women.  It may be asking too much for them to listen to us twice in one lifetime.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 5:03:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Here's what happened.

Republican leadership told its members they could vote however they wanted. Pelosi responded with "I'm not going to whip my members if you're not going to whip yours." This plan was DOA, and I'm surprised it got as many votes as it did. There was no leadership anywhere.

Then just contradictory fingerpointing: "This is not the time to blame. This was X's fault."

The whole thing's tragically silly.

Time to go back and write a real bill.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/30/2008 5:04:36 PM >

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 5:41:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
Bailout Rejected! the headlines cry. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!
 
cluck cluck cluck
 
Meanwhile, the price of oil is dropping and the value of the dollar is going up.
 
That must be bad news for somebody.
 
K.
 

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 6:15:15 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Agreed.


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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 6:27:36 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Wonder what would happen if the US just walked away from its debt.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 6:48:02 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Bailout... The only ones they're bailing out are the heads of these defunct failures of businesses.  Plain and simple.  Even if this 'bail out' goes through, there's no guarantee anyone gets to keep their homes, jobs, anything.  The only guarantee is that CEO's will wander off with a nice few million dollars in 'year end performance bonuses'.  You know, I was always taught that if I screw up on the job, my 'bonus' was a swift kick to the ass and a rather uncerimonious 'get out!'.

EDITED THE BIG PART OUT:  Because of stupid decimal points. 
Either way, this doesn't help the economy at all, the only people it helps are the ones that screwd the pooch to begin with.  Someone recently put it rather beautifully when they said, "In a free market, one has the right to succeed.  One also has the right to fail."  Well, these business leaders failed.  Period.  And now they're saying "Ohhh, help me, help me.", and they're going to still live in the lap of luxury, while the people under them get stepped on and forgotten.

Bailout... my ass.  Smoke, mirrors, greed and politics, plain and simple.  Doesn't take the love child of a rocket scientist, economist and sherlock holmes to figure THAT out.

< Message edited by BKSir -- 9/30/2008 7:24:50 PM >

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:14:19 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

2.258 million dollars


I think you mean thousand, not million.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:15:58 PM   
kittinz


Posts: 1
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline 		Ignore me...


< Message edited by kittinz -- 9/30/2008 7:30:50 PM >

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:21:55 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Whoops.  You know, he's right.  Stupid decimal points. >.<

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We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

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RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:24:28 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Bah. What's a few millions between friends  ?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:25:54 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Haha, if that's the case, mind if I borrow about $500k, kittinSol? 

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Congress 3 USA 0 - 9/30/2008 7:28:40 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Sure. It's a done deal: go ahead with whatever your plans were. I'll write you an IOU.

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