Trying to understand boundaries (Full Version)

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Angelfood -> Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 9:47:21 AM)

This is my first post (although i've been a community member at collarme since early 2006), so, hello A/all!

i would greatly appreciate talking with A/anybody that can offer advice or insight:

i've been with my Master for nearly a year, and He moved in with me a few months ago.  i care about Him very deeply.  But i have questions about my own ability to "draw lines" on what behavior is acceptable to me within a romantic and life-sharing relationship, and how our M/s comittment fits with my own boundaries.

To be more specific, there are things He does and things He requires of me that i do not like.  And i genuinely do not know whether to accept His behavior and His requirements because He is my Master, and because it is my consensual position as a slave to accept those things ... or whether some of His behavior and requirements are truly past my tolerance as to what i will and won't accept in a relationship.

i am starting to fall into a depression through worry over these things, and whether or not to continue this relationship or seek release.  i am truly not at peace.

Does a slave draw those types of lines? can she?  And if so, how?

Thank Y/you all in advance for any thoughts.



zakkan -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 9:51:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelfood

Does a slave draw those types of lines? can she?  And if so, how?



Yes. By honest communication. And I predict the answers below to be variations of these four words. [:D]

Seriously though, if you are not at peace, you need to think about your relationship more.



Usako -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 9:51:32 AM)

I don't think it matters if a slave does or can draw whatever lines, if you're getting depressed over it and not at peace then it's a problem and for your own well being needs to be talked about with him. Not a matter of master, slave or BDSM, it's a matter of a human being in distress and how to fix it.

Don't know how you fix it, especially since you left out the details of what he's doing so I'll go with the standard "You need to talk to him" advice.



Daes -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 9:58:32 AM)

For starters, these things should have been worked out Before he moved in.

The situation you describe to me has a Ton of landmines in it. Now that you two are moved in you both need to Communicate. You need to tell him how you feel. Being a slave or sub does not make you a mute or a drone, you have feelings and a voice, as the dominant it is part of his obligation to the relationship to quell your fears, worries, and hear out your issues as someone who genuinely cares about your feelings. If he doesnt understand your issues, needs, or desires, he can't really help, can he?

Also, make a compromise, what are things you absolutely HATE doing, and what is okay? Usually there is some type of reward, whether it be an Actual reward, or whether the reward is joy from service - I'm not feeling that from your post. In an M/s relationship I would have thought this wouldnt be an issue. Usually the reward that comes from service is from Him in the forms of appreciation, love, and praise - in addition to the fact that my service makes him happy, which in turn makes me feel like I've done good. It sounds to me that This what I've just described Could be part of the problem. You are doing things you dont like and arent feeling that kind of joy that comes with being appreciated for your efforts. (possibly?) I cant think of any other reason why it would make you depressed.

Expectations need to be clarified and renegotiated. You need to feel safe enough to go to Him for issues in your relationship (otherwise you would not be posting here).So, I prescribe a good long difficult talk where yes you have to voice your feelings and make him understand how important it is for you. You have feelings, and this is a relationship. Screw the dynamic. This is a relationship between two people. You need communication, understanding, and honesty. That means figuring out what's really bothering you, telling him about it, and working it out in an adult manner. Sort out your feelings, what they are exactly and what is causing those reactions/feelings - and ask yourself why?

Maybe you can find your own answers.



Angelfood -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 10:06:04 AM)

Thank you all for your prompt responses.

i will speak with Him, then, and tell Him what things trouble me.  It won't be easy .. but thank you for confirming that it's necessary - and that it's OK to confront things.

angel



KatyLied -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 10:13:27 AM)

quote:

that it's necessary - and that it's OK to confront things.


Why would you even think otherwise?  Why be in a relationship if you can't discuss/confront things?



Angelfood -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 10:17:02 AM)

Daes -

Thank you!  i understand exactly what you are saying about receiving rewards and the joys of service. :)

The things within the relationship that are troubling me don't relate specifically to D/s (other than how D/s affects the relationship as a whole).  The things i am worried about relate to His temper and the way He speaks to me from time to time ... and how i see myself now adapting to Him and responding to Him when He is angry.  i do not like what i am am seeing in myself - i used to consider myself a very strong person, but now, i see myself placating behavior that i am not even sure i should be tolerating in the first place.

Thank you again,

angel



OttersSwim -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 10:24:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelfood

... i do not like what i am am seeing in myself - i used to consider myself a very strong person, but now, i see myself placating behavior that i am not even sure i should be tolerating in the first place.


Reading between the lines - it is that you do not like what you are seeing in him when he is angry.  And so verbal lambasting can be done as part of the relationship, or it can simply be verbal abuse.  Certainly something to be concerned about if that is not part of what you and he agreed to when you entered into the relationship.

Talking to him is key here - his reaction will, I think, also be key so watch for it and let it guide your next actions...



kyraofMists -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 10:39:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelfood
Does a slave draw those types of lines? can she?  And if so, how?


In my relationship, I do not get to draw the lines of what is or is not appropriate, he does.  That is how our relationship is structured.  He has all the authority within the relationship.

If I have an opinion about something that is happening, I will ask permission to express it and do so in an appropriate manner if given permission.  Sometimes he agrees with my opinion and makes changes and other times he does not.  

If something that is going on is harming my well-being, then it will get discussed.  If my thought process can be adjusted so that I am not viewing something negatively and therefore correct the negative impact it is having on me then that will happen.  If it is still harming me, then he will make a decision on how to adjust things so that I am not harmed.

In the end, it is his decision to make.  I either accept his decisions or I leave the relationship.

How your relationship works is up for the two of you to discuss.

Knight's Kyra 



Angelfood -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 2:19:44 PM)

Thank you Knight's Kyra - my dynamic with Him is a bit like yours ... which i guess is why i am having trouble drawing lines in my own head between what is something i should simply accept, versus what is something that should be brought up and discussed.

i think i will be looking at a long discussion this evening. ;)  i'm not so very good at that ...

Otterswim - thank you as well.  There is certainly a verbal element that i am *fine* with in our D/s dynamic - and i'm OK with verbal lambasting, name calling, in context.  There is consent there.  Only, there are other times that He  gets very angry over a small transgression - like either me or my kids make some noise that wakes Him in the morning - and His response towards me doesn't feel consensual to me at all!  i am having trouble with what i should be accepting of, given our agreement as to His authority. :(

This is all giving me much to think about.




LaTigresse -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 2:29:44 PM)

Other than the fact that I have a gut level, not so nice, reaction when you mention the noise of kids....... it really sounds like a communication issue.

He cannot know there is a problem unless you communicate it to him.



Angelfood -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 2:30:05 PM)

Yes DesFIP ... more than anything, that is the very issue that brought me here to start thinking about this "out loud."

Thank you



juliaoceania -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 3:19:08 PM)

deleted because other people had better advice...

your wee ones did not consent to hearing you be verbally abused.



wordstoponder -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 3:28:57 PM)

My best guess is to COMMUNICATE.  This way, you can avoid drawing lines and stating "limits" while at the same time you can express how much you dislike or truly hate this or that.

For me, however, communication is still something that I'm working on.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 4:30:27 PM)

quote:

...there are other times that He  gets very angry over a small transgression - like either me or my kids make some noise that wakes Him in the morning - and His response towards me doesn't feel consensual to me at all!...


this slave used to live with someone who would get very angry over real (or imagined) small things... in a vanilla~based relationship.
 
he began taking it out on this slave, verbally at first and then physically, shortly after a wee one was born.  anger management classes didn't help.  talking about it calmly always escalated it into a very dangerous situation and after trying different ways at different times to "fix" what the problem was, this slave finally gave up and got out for good.
 
He still doesn't believe he was in the wrong and has behaved the same way in every relationship he has had since.
 
Some people won't change, even when you tell them you feel they are diminishing you and your wee ones with their crappy behavior that just isn't acceptable in an intimate relationship...be it vanilla, D/s or M/s based.



KnightofMists -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 6:16:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angelfood

Does a slave draw those types of lines? can she?  And if so, how?


Yes... any healthy person will draw those lines to protect their well-being.

However,... no matter the relationship structure... you also have lines for a Healthy relationship.

Hopefully.. those lines are compatiable

Now.... the question is.... so... do you want to protect your well-being?  if so... what lines do you need to draw?

now.... what lines are neccessary for the relationship to be healthy?   are they compatiable to the lines you have as a person?  If they are not... you know what to do.



VoicesInTheDark -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/1/2008 6:31:47 PM)

The evolution of turf in a relationship and /or home can be quite unpredictable. Even with well thought out guidelines, perspectives are skewed things to one's own thinking and feelings. Give someone power (real or perceived) and their behavior patterns won't likely change for the better if there is no capacity for empathy. The "privacy" of the two of you is not the same as the "publically" of the 4 of you. The danger /challenge of including a family into a power dynamic is that is not always fluid nor predictable nor dynamic. Did he spend any long weekends with all of you prior to moving in? Was there any discussion of how the family as a dynamic was going to be structured and/or adapted to?  Without saying "Warning Will Robinson!" too loudly...I worry that the outcome will not be blissful.
As most other responders suggest; communicate.  I add to make your own clear agenda/list/perspectives/concerns et al written out in advance. Speak them aloud to yourself to see how they sound...make sure they say what you mean and mean what you say. Remember, life is learning; not perfection.  Good planning improves good luck!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/2/2008 4:58:11 AM)

Using anger to control someone isn't dominance, it is being a domineering asshole.  A dominant uses wisdom, leadership, and praise to inspire submission.

You are feeling depressed because he is undermining your self esteem and you are living in fear of him rather than happy inspired awe.




ModeratorSixteen -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/2/2008 6:03:05 AM)

Lets leave the discussion off minors.



GreedyTop -> RE: Trying to understand boundaries (10/2/2008 6:35:02 AM)

*waves good morning to Sixteen*



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