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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 6:22:51 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I find those that "swear there ain't no heaven, pray there ain't no hell..."


Actually, I don't pray -- I don't beg some ethereal force, regardless of its existence or not, for what I don't have. I don't plead for different circumstances than the ones I am in. I don't fear death (and yes, I've faced it straight on, and do currently, as someone who lives her life with an incurable illness that will progressively and painfully end her life). I don't believe in heaven or hell. I work hard to figure out how to fulfill my desires for this life, plan so my companion will not have undue hardship when I die, and try to make sure that my kids have a head start to fulfilling their own dreams. I have no fear that -maybe- there is a hell, and as hard as my life has been, I've never broken down and begged for some imaginary 'force' to make everything all better and remove my responsibility for the decisions I make and the life I shape.

I do, however, believe in everyday miracles, and in the power to face one's life head-on, regardless of the comparative 'reality'. I've been destined for death since the day I was born. We all are. I chose, years ago, not to get mired down in fear of something that I had absolutely no control over, and from that point, was able to make conscious decisions to make the most of the life I have.

I am not completely nihilistic. I believe that our purpose for living is the experience itself. Living is its own purpose -- we don't need more than that. That, in itself, is a profound opportunity, and one that I refuse to compromise by diminishing it wishing for a happy-dappy future in the sky, floating around in some seemingly perfect, challenge-free existence shaped of fantasy, wishing, and guilt.

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to MistresseLotus)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 7:02:48 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		....well, i've just spent way too long on a greyhound bus, and i'm still bus-buzzed.......but now i'm back on a decent machine with a real keyboard, i'd like to make everyone annoyed by revisiting that idea about science and religion being the same sort of thing because they both require faith.........

Religion requires faith. No-one disputes this. Faith is belief in something with no need for actual proof. Arguably (at least according to Douglas Adams) proof actually destroys faith. i'm not making any value judgement about this....it just is.
Science does deal with intangibles, but does not require an act of faith.....in fact its the opposite, it requires an act of proof. Let's take the problem of what light consists of as an example. It's a wave and a particle, designated a photon. We can easily demonstrate both of those properties with easy experiments. Now, let's uppose that someone in the future comes up with an experiment that proves that light is, in fact, made up of tiny tiny elephants. The theory changes, the hypothesis is updated and science moves on. There is no analogue for this process in religion.  This is the crucial point and difference. To describe both these things as acts of faith is to ignore the miraculous in religion and the point of science.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 7:05:06 PM   
goodgirlslave


Posts: 15
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline 		thoughts (beliefs) are derivative of genetic-code-dependent brain chemestry responding to environmental inputs.  so, why does anyone care what anyone thinks (believes) when it comes to determining truth?

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 7:12:40 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirlslave

thoughts (beliefs) are derivative of genetic-code-dependent brain chemestry responding to environmental inputs.  so, why does anyone care what anyone thinks (believes) when it comes to determining truth?


...i was wondering when we'd wander towards existentialism......

(in reply to goodgirlslave)
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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 7:13:09 PM   
bluepanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirlslave

thoughts (beliefs) are derivative of genetic-code-dependent brain chemestry responding to environmental inputs.  so, why does anyone care what anyone thinks (believes) when it comes to determining truth?


Well, two reasons come immediately to mind. First of all, hearing what others think gives me more ideas to consider while I'm sorting out what I believe; and second, once I've decided how I feel about something, hearing other points of view helps me test the validity of my beliefs by challenging me to examine them more thoroughly.

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RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 8:00:35 PM   
MistresseLotus


Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline 		Actually, that was a line from a CCR song. However, the one saying I like the best is:
 
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
and die to find out there isn't,

than...

live my life as if there isn't,
and die to find out there is.

Just wanted to add that this isn't to change anyone's mind.  I've lived long enough where I have explored both philosophies.  I just feel there is "something out there" is all. 

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 10/4/2008 8:04:21 PM >

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/4/2008 9:30:36 PM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

Actually, that was a line from a CCR song. However, the one saying I like the best is:
 
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
and die to find out there isn't,

than...

live my life as if there isn't,
and die to find out there is.

Just wanted to add that this isn't to change anyone's mind.  I've lived long enough where I have explored both philosophies.  I just feel there is "something out there" is all. 


That sort of thinking veers towards punishment as a basis and motivation for morality, which seems to be a fairly flawed reason to declare a belief.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 6:59:21 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I don't beg some ethereal force, regardless of its existence or not, for what I don't have. I don't plead for different circumstances than the ones I am in. I don't fear death...as hard as my life has been, I've never broken down and begged for some imaginary 'force' to make everything all better and remove my responsibility for the decisions I make and the life I shape.
Well done.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I do, however, believe in everyday miracles, and in the power to face one's life head-on
That is powerful magic. You are spiritually active.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I refuse to compromise by diminishing it wishing for a happy-dappy future in the sky, floating around in some seemingly perfect, challenge-free existence shaped of fantasy, wishing, and guilt.
You err in supposing that people in heaven sit on literal clouds. Physical afterlife is not possible at the moment anyway, so wishing for it most likely will be fruitless. As for spiritual afterlife, that does not even last the blink of an eye, as there is no time "outside" the universe where the Divine "resides". So the only options open at the moment are oblivion if one has screwed up in a major way, is defective in some way, or reincarnation as a blank slate. But reicarnation as what, who, where, when?

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 7:59:12 AM   
MistresseLotus


Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

Actually, that was a line from a CCR song. However, the one saying I like the best is:
 
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
and die to find out there isn't,

than...

live my life as if there isn't,
and die to find out there is.

Just wanted to add that this isn't to change anyone's mind.  I've lived long enough where I have explored both philosophies.  I just feel there is "something out there" is all. 


That sort of thinking veers towards punishment as a basis and motivation for morality, which seems to be a fairly flawed reason to declare a belief.


No, I'd live the same regardless of my above statement because there is a right and wrong and there is a desire for fairness ad co-operation  in life.  Hell actually is of one's own making.

If a person is a switch to "cover all bases".. what's the difference?

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to patwi)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 8:00:55 AM   
patwi


Posts: 296
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline 		Ahh see i took it as something akin to "I'd better believe in god, because I sure don't want to go to hell" rather than "Even if there isn't a god, i'm going to do good things."

there is a large difference!

(in reply to MistresseLotus)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 1:53:46 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You err in supposing that people in heaven sit on literal clouds. Physical afterlife is not possible at the moment anyway, so wishing for it most likely will be fruitless. As for spiritual afterlife, that does not even last the blink of an eye, as there is no time "outside" the universe where the Divine "resides". So the only options open at the moment are oblivion if one has screwed up in a major way, is defective in some way, or reincarnation as a blank slate. But reicarnation as what, who, where, when?[/size]


I see your point -- I think that my point, rather than dwelling on the location of heaven or seeking a concept for afterlife, was more that it seems like a waste of time, to me, to spend this life wishing and praying for the next life, rather than trying to fully experience every single moment for the experience itself.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/5/2008 1:54:25 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 2:06:40 PM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		~kneels down and looks under my bed and whispers to the boogy man~ 

nope, none here.

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i am woman! er, godzilla! hear me roar!

http://wavcentral.com/cgi-bin/log/log.cgi?id=2856&sound=/sounds/movies/godzilla/roar.mp3


He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 3:08:09 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Pure atheisim is it's own religion, in a way. And, like all other religions, it seeks comfort in absolute certainty about a single train of thought. Yet, that train of thought may not reflect the reality of our situation than any other religion based on "making shit up."

They believe that there is no possibility...  I just can't subscribe to such an absolute point of view without all the information being available.


Atheism is a belief system like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I don't "believe" there is no god; I never even consider the question. I don't sit around "believing" there are no pink Unicorns, either. The notion never occurs to me.

The whole notion that atheism is a belief system or "religion" is preposterous.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 3:10:03 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
my point, rather than dwelling on the location of heaven or seeking a concept for afterlife, was more that it seems like a waste of time, to me, to spend this life wishing and praying for the next life, rather than trying to fully experience every single moment for the experience itself.
Living life is wise. Well done.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Any atheists here? - 10/5/2008 4:29:52 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nope just guessed at for now. There is still much debate on what light is in the scientific community.

BUT we both understand what the other is saying… you just don’t believe I am right…And I am not sure your are wrong.

Lets just let others read and decide for themselves… no sense arguing past a point...and we have reached it.
Butch
Who are these scientists who are 'debating' what light is? I would like to read some of these discussions. I assume you have a link to a primary source, such as "Scientific American" or "Nature", yes?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 255
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