Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (Full Version)

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UncleNasty -> Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 11:05:42 AM)

This is a cut and paste from Catherine Austin Fitts blog. I thought it interesting enough to post here, particularly bullets 1 and 2.

Here is a link to the entire blog entry, including comments by readers:

http://solari.com/blog/?p=1646

(1) Crime that pays is crime that stays.
There is reason to believe that Wall Street and those they represent are holding loans without collateral, multiple loans secured by the same properties, and other fraudulent instruments among the “troubled assets.” Based on the secret “Treasury Conference Call” with 800 Wall Street insiders, we know the deal proposed to be passed by Congress isn’t the real deal promised to Wall Street.
(2) This smells like obstruction of justice.
Bail-out without due diligence of so called “troubled assets” is a perfect way to hide documentation of financial crimes. It is also a perfect means to launder both the past ill-gotten gains and new federal money spent recklessly and without necessary safeguards and oversight mechanisms. Be very suspicious when they tell you “we just can’t tell what’s in these troubled assets.” We can assure you that the federal government has field offices all across the country that deal with significant amounts of real estate and mortgage assets on a dailyl basis. If Treasury refuses for more than a decade to comply with the laws, with approximately $4 trillion missing (and counting), it is not competent to manage $700 billion of taxpayer money while its arm is twisted by Wall Street.
(3) Wall Street owes the federal government money.

We need to get stolen money back from the banks that served as depositories for the US government (including trillions for which the Pentagon and HUD could not account) and punish them, not create another opportunity for them to game the system and engage in criminal enterprises to rob consumers. To the extent there has been regulatory wrong-doing, let’s not let the miscreants leave town with the evidence.

(4) Good guys are shut out.
A bail-out provides no way for honest leaders to come to the fore and use their creativity and expertise to restore balance and integrity to the system or for unproductive and poorly-managed banks that contribute to current over-capacity in the banking system to die a dignified death.
(5) This results in more investment in the “bubble economy.”
Spending massive amounts on non-productive uses (“buying” worthless credit default swaps, mortgages with no collateral and derivatives, which could even include the derivatives used to manipulate the precious metals markets) as opposed to productive uses (repairing infrastructure, creating alternative energy systems, supporting inventing and production of “green” products) is inflationary.
This bail-out will drive prices of food, water and energy up for the people who can least afford it.
(6) Bail-out does not result in capital circulating in healthy ways.
The bail-out of Wall Street and too-big-to-fail banks and insurance companies that are getting bigger by the minute by swallowing up other failing financial institutions (and creating more institutions that are “too big to fail”) does not result in trickle-down to those whose money was stolen in recent swindles (S&L, dot.com, current housing crisis), i.e., the taxpayers/middle class and working poor.
(7) These arrangements will result in more corruption.
Centralized “fixes” are sure to result in black holes, no-bid contracts and other scandals.
(8) The bail-out drains the real economy, rather than invests in the real economy.
The US economy can’t be productive or grow if consumers don’t have jobs and can’t afford to purchase goods and services. Real stimulation of Main Street is accomplished through productive investment, not bail-outs that shift money to unproductive sectors. We should use all of our precious resources to reinvest in our people in the real economy.
(9) It props up sectors that need to downsize and consolidate.
There is significant overcapacity in the financial and banking sectors. Brainpower and talent needs to stop blowing financial bubbles and shift to economic activities that create real value.
(10) It is a temporary “fix” to keep Wall Street afloat until after the election.
Our resources are better invested in permanent, long-term solutions. This bail-out will not fix anything. Rather, it will help the perpetrators get away and ensure that the ultimate day of reckoning is worse.
The Administration wants to drain the real economy to bail out Wall Street. It seems to us that the more appropriate plan would be to require Wall Street to return the $4 trillion plus that is missing and use that to rebuild the real economy.
We think the time has come to reverse the flow. Go to any business school in the country. That is what they teach. Money should move out of unproductive sectors into productive sectors. The bail-out does just the opposite.
“Just say NO!”

Uncle Nasty



popeye1250 -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 11:16:52 AM)

I agree!



Casie -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 12:29:51 PM)

Agreed, it would be amazing if our Senate had that same kind of common sense.



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 1:21:11 PM)

Agree 1000000000000000000000000000000%. I called both of my Senators offices and told them I was furious about them ignoring the people. 



seeksfemslave -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 3:24:25 PM)

I have read in the UK that the FBI is investigating possible corporate crime.
Is that reassuring or not ?
I really dont know.
If point 1 (multiple packages of the same product) is proved to be true then I say throw the book at the barstards..



kinkbound -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 3:32:07 PM)

My prediction is that this thread won't go far, because it doesn't give enough opportunity for either the left or the right to point the finger at each other. Without the typical regression to polarization, the usual suspects won't be interested.



TNstepsout -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 4:00:18 PM)

Add #11-we need a good solid depression and some real hardship to make American babies grow up and quit whining. Call it tough love. I'm a convert. I think it's what this country needs more than a bailout.



slavefortpeohio -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 4:47:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I have read in the UK that the FBI is investigating possible corporate crime.
Is that reassuring or not ?
I really dont know.
If point 1 (multiple packages of the same product) is proved to be true then I say throw the book at the barstards..



A few till take the fall...very few. Too many lobbyists and skeletons in the closet for that many convictions.



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 4:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Add #11-we need a good solid depression and some real hardship to make American babies grow up and quit whining. Call it tough love. I'm a convert. I think it's what this country needs more than a bailout.



I agree 1665567865548754765%



Aneirin -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 4:56:43 PM)

Personally, I think people need to experience hardship to understand about money, so a bailout would only serve to delay the lesson about money. I say delay, as it will happen again if people fail to learn. Taking loans, which is what credit is all about, used to be anethema to the working man, he preferring to pay his way by the sweat of his brow, a pride thing I believe, and why not. Could it be that Bush is so keen on a bailout, because he would rather not deal with the problems of hardship in his last few months in office ?

Perhaps a valid question, but what is the role of the president, is he there for the people or seperate from the people ?



Termyn8or -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 5:53:10 PM)

11. It's not their money.

Do a search on Horatio Bunch and his conversation with then congressman David Crockett. Bunch's statements reflect mine alot better than my own ever could.

T



MmeGigs -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 5:54:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Add #11-we need a good solid depression and some real hardship to make American babies grow up and quit whining. Call it tough love. I'm a convert. I think it's what this country needs more than a bailout.


Welcome to the dark side.  ;)

The bill the Senate passed is loaded with unassociated amendments and additions.  They seem to have bought votes for the legislation with pork.  Some of it's good stuff - stuff we should do - but it really pisses me off that everyone's using this "vital legislation" to get their pet projects through.  I imagine a lot of that would get stripped off in conference committee, but it's still pretty damned disgusting.  It makes it so clear that they just don't get it.  Both of my senators voted for.  I'm going to write and ask them why.  I wrote and told them I didn't want them to vote for, but got the standard "too busy to look at your mail" response.  I understand that one or both got big piece of pork added to this - the number I heard was $140 million coming back to MN, but I'll have to check on that.  One of them actually said, in so many words, 'We had to do something and this was something.'  Yeesh.

My congressman is planning to vote against, and I've heard a couple of others from nearby districts are also planning to vote against.  I'm hoping the House will keep this under control and insist on some regulation and oversight rather than just throwing money at the problem.  All of those folks are up for reelection, so they're listening more than the Senate is. 




UncleNasty -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 6:25:26 PM)

MmeGigs,

I read a quote from a congressman whose name I don't recal last Wednesday saying, "Look, we don't have the time to figure out if this a good thing or a bad thing we just have to do something!!" The truth is these guys are not very bright, their problem solving skills are incredibly lacking, as is their abilities for abstract thought and reasoning.

Uncle Nasty



pahunkboy -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 8:07:16 PM)

I doubt we can stop it.

What to do tho as a lay man.



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 8:15:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I doubt we can stop it.

What to do tho as a lay man.


Defeatist. We may not be able to de-rail this train, but the big one we can if everyone pushes. Just takes a few yelling loud enough, then it builds to a roar of millions.



bestbabync -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 9:14:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

My prediction is that this thread won't go far, because it doesn't give enough opportunity for either the left or the right to point the finger at each other. Without the typical regression to polarization, the usual suspects won't be interested.


oh true so true![:)]



TNstepsout -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 9:14:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Add #11-we need a good solid depression and some real hardship to make American babies grow up and quit whining. Call it tough love. I'm a convert. I think it's what this country needs more than a bailout.


Welcome to the dark side.  ;)




Thanks, but I'm probably not here for the reason you think. *g*



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 9:43:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I doubt we can stop it.

What to do tho as a lay man.


Defeatist. We may not be able to de-rail this train, but the big one we can if everyone pushes. Just takes a few yelling loud enough, then it builds to a roar of millions.



Hrmmm, I don't understand what train you are talking about. What's the big one? I mean we are going to get a president that is okay, with this type of thing, both Obama and McCain are down with it. I'm pretty sure this thing is going through.

What's next, martial law? Giving control of the currency to a private corporation. Oh wait that already happen, how about a hyper out of control military that is spread all over the planet, scratch that to already happened. Hmmm, this is hard, oh, the government taking control of most of the mortgages in some kind of psuedo fascist state, damn they already did that with fannie and freddie. Domestic spying? Well, shit that is already done. Sanctioned Torture, well that is already a done deal. Oh backing corporate risk, oh wait, they did that multiple times already. Oh, I know, you are refering to them wiping their ass with the constitution. I mean it is pretty much a useless document now, it's not living and breathing, it's dead. They just ignore it.

Honestly there is not much left, the RNC convention and the rounding up of independent journalists, proved Freedom of the Press is dead, among other events, except for the non-news of the CBS variety, which is hardly hard hitting journalism.




rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 9:47:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I doubt we can stop it.

What to do tho as a lay man.


Defeatist. We may not be able to de-rail this train, but the big one we can if everyone pushes. Just takes a few yelling loud enough, then it builds to a roar of millions.



Hrmmm, I don't understand what train you are talking about. What's the big one? I mean we are going to get a president that is okay, with this type of thing, both Obama and McCain are down with it. I'm pretty sure this thing is going through.

What's next, martial law? Giving control of the currency to a private corporation. Oh wait that already happen, how about a hyper out of control military that is spread all over the planet, scratch that to already happened. Hmmm, this is hard, oh, the government taking control of most of the mortgages in some kind of psuedo fascist state, damn they already did that with fannie and freddie. Domestic spying? Well, shit that is already done. Sanctioned Torture, well that is already a done deal. Oh backing corporate risk, oh wait, they did that multiple times already. Oh, I know, you are refering to them wiping their ass with the constitution. I mean it is pretty much a useless document now, it's not living and breathing, it's dead. They just ignore it.

Honestly there is not much left, the RNC convention and the rounding up of independent journalists, proved Freedom of the Press is dead, among other events, except for the non-news of the CBS variety, which is hardly hard hitting journalism.





Defeatist. metaphor? ever heard of it? train=housing bail out bullshit.  big train=congress, midterm elections, enough people angry enough to make a difference for once.
And the conspiracy, blame game garbage is half of the problem. Its every ones fault. mine and yours included.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Ten Reasons not to Bail Out Wall Street (10/2/2008 10:06:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni


Defeatist. metaphor? ever heard of it? train=housing bail out bullshit.  big train=congress, midterm elections, enough people angry enough to make a difference for once.
And the conspiracy, blame game garbage is half of the problem. Its every ones fault. mine and yours included.


metaphors I use them all the time, however, I had no indication of what you were talking about in terms of the big train, there was little connection.

Trully it isn't my fault, I have a mortgage, but it isn't through a bank. It's with a person, and we pay them like a bank at a fixed interest rate. I walk most places mind you. I support Ron Paul. I have in the past have lived without electricity for months, and the thought never occurred to me to beg the government for money.

Anyway, don't blame my ass, I buy new overstock stuff, demos, and returns and fix more of the returns than I'll ever consume. My carbon footprint is negative, without a doubt and that is a choice. I'm working on converting a room in my building, to grow some of own my food even, to try to break away more from the system.

The Problem is I'm one of very few that are actually trying to break the system, via actions.

Fuck what do you want me to do.

And yes, I can blame people, because people in general don't give a shit until they lose something, very selfish reasoning, and that is the only reason most here care about it now, is because "THEY" might lose something, when they should have been thinking of the structure of it all long ago, and the equitable treatment, philosophy,etc...

Anyway, as far as booting congress out, that is little solace, once the deed is done. I won't vote against them though, I just won't vote unless there is a better alternative.



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