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RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 1:34:27 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemyllife

BIDEN: Gwen, with all due respect, I didn't hear a plan. Barack Obama offered a clear plan. Shift responsibility to Iraqis over the next 16 months. Draw down our combat troops. Ironically the same plan that Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq and George Bush are now negotiating. The only odd man out here, only one left out is John McCain, number one. Number two, with regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops, John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a timeline in it to draw down American troops. And John said I'm not going to fund the troops if in fact there's a time line. Barack Obama and I agree fully and completely on one thing. You've got to have a time line to draw down the troops and shift responsibility to the Iraqis.


Biden did indeed point it out to Palin. However, Biden failed to mention that Obama's "clear plan" is predicated upon telling the enemy we'll quit fighting in 16-months. Note that in order to differentiate himself from Hillary Clinton on this issue during the Democratic primary, Obama's original "clear plan" was having all of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2009. Apparantly Obama himself isn't "clear" about his plan.  The draw-down plan currently being negotiated between President Bush and Iraq's Prime Minister Maliki is NOT the same as Obama's but, rather, more like Bush's/McCain's in that the draw-down time-line is not only 24-months rather than Obama's 16-months but the pace of the draw-down is predicated upon what is happening "on the ground" rather than Obama's cast in stone draw-down pace.  That Biden said he is in full and complete agreement with Obama vis-a-vis withdrawing all of our troops out of Iraq by a specific date IRREGARDLESS of Iraq's ability to assume responsiblitly proves they are the odd-men out here. Period.


You're wrong.

From the start Obama said his plan was predicated on conditions on the ground.  His plan also calls for leaving a U.S. security force in place to protect Americans that remain in Iraq.

As far as I have seen, McCain has never signed on to any plan to withdraw troops in a specific time-frame.  He has not endorsed Maliki's 24 month plan nor any other. 

He has only said the troops will remain as long as it takes to achieve victory.  What he defines as victory he has never said. 

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 1:59:16 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

For those that insist on facts.. check out factcheck.org


Factcheck.org is owned by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, which ran the Annenberg Foundation, which gave Obama his start in "Community Organizing".

Hardly an unbiased, non partisan group.



I've seen you post this nonsense every time someone mentions Factcheck. 

This website has been cited by every major media source in the country, including those that are highly conservative.  Factcheck has been as hard on Obama and his campaign for factual inaccuracies as it has been on McCain.

It is a NON-PARTISAN, NON-PROFIT site.

The funding by the Annenberg Foundation, which funds many public and charitable projects, is totally irrelevant. 

Trying to claim the site is biased because Obama happened to do work on projects funded by the Annenberg Foundation is ridiculous.

You only need to log on to it to see how often they are critical of him.

 
FactCheck.org is a nonprofit website[1] that describes its own goal as "[reducing] the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics." In its efforts, FactCheck says it is nonpartisan.[2] It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.[2]
Most of its content consists of rebuttals to what it considers inaccurate, misleading, or false claims by politicians. FactCheck has also targeted the misleading claims from various partisan groups.
(wikipedia)

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 2:05:06 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

For those that insist on facts.. check out factcheck.org


Factcheck.org is owned by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, which ran the Annenberg Foundation, which gave Obama his start in "Community Organizing".

Hardly an unbiased, non partisan group.

You must not have bothered to actually check the site. They have been consistently neutral and non partisan since their creation. In this specific case they found issues with claims made by both Palin and Biden.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 2:25:41 PM   
tornaway


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Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline 		  I'm definitely not real hot for Sarah - but I'll admit she presented herself  better than I expected - even while avoiding certain questions entirely.  That cutesy winking stuff though ,  made me want to slap her silly !   
 
     Gotta keep your sense of humor , so I will share here some post-debate  fun back and forth stuff between me and a friend :
 
 
"after watching this last night i have become convinced that sarah palin is nothing more than a dick with a vagina."  ".... who wears lipstick - and shoots wolves from planes " "   but as a beer drinkin' soccer mom i have to say that me and my pregnant 14 year old shur doo like the way she shoots them caribou....by golly, hot damn! "      "yesiree  Bob ,  that there little gal is one fiesty babe - who cares if'n shes knows a whole lot O' that pol-lit-ti-chian stuff   ,   I'd like to take her out in the woods a huntin' ....  have a few beers ....  an maybe bend her over a log somewhere ... or use that mouth fer sumthin besides talkin' ....  if'n  ya knows what I mean  "  *wink-wink*                  Just think -  in only a few more weeks - it will all be over .  Then the real fun begins !                     





(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 2:34:28 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Palin and her advisors treated her audience like they were morons - but most of them aren't morons, and they weren't fooled by it, were they :-) ? 


I'm revealing my inner cynic here, but I think that this is just what an awful lot of people want to hear.  Many of us want a warm-and-fuzzy feeling that there are indeed easy answers to all of life's difficult questions and to believe that there are folks out there who have all these answers and that it's easy to tell who these folks are.  We want to hear that those easy answers won't require us to make any sacrifices.  We love hearing stories of personal sacrifice and overcoming adversity, and we feel virtuous by association, but we get all bunged up when it's suggested that we personally might have to make some sacrifices.

Anyone who's done any study of national issues (which doesn't seem to be too many of us) knows that they're really complex, and that any solution that has ever been put in place to address any issue has had unintended consequences.  Sometimes they're the price we have to pay for doing the right thing, but too often they're unneccessary costs that could have been avoided.  Too often the solutions are politically expedient but don't actually do much about the problem they set out to solve.  And too many of us don't really care as long as we're not personally affected.

We're becoming a nation of cynics. 


I'm getting myself all depressed......

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 2:40:16 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

How many times have you referred to this debate as a waste of your time now? Three, or four times?


How could it have wasted his time if he didn't watch it?

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 2:44:52 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

How many times have you referred to this debate as a waste of your time now? Three, or four times?


How could it have wasted his time if he didn't watch it?


....who knows......MofG actually suggested it was a waste of all our time.........thus implying that all of us waste our time attempting to inform ourselves about anything to do with politics. As politics affects every aspect of our lives i am forced to conclude that he is a nihilist who probably thinks that  life is nasty, brutish and best got over with quickly.

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 3:29:35 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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My favorite line in the whole debate was when Biden pointed out his offer for assistance for families with health insurance...and Palin came back with something like "Joe...in your plan, all that money will just go straight to an insurance company"....and I was thinking..."Uhhhhmmmmm......isn't that where most insurance premiums end up?"

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 3:33:38 PM   
xXLithiumXx


Posts: 723
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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

While I like Obama and Biden, I do have to agree with this...it was a play to the people who are single parents and it was low...I wasnt at all impressed with that...and kind of eye rolled at him for being dramatic.



I have to disagree. Palin kept on playing the saintly mom card, as if Biden was out of touch with reality. I think he had enough of these implications, and that he just let her know he was aware of the difficulties of parenthood, especially in his own personal circumstances: his wife did die with their daughter in a horrific car crash.


I can see how that would be seen.  Thats something to think about for sure.


i think that the hits that Palin took in reference to her dealing with her own families challenges relating to special needs children in the press, prior to the debates were unfair and that the public needed to be reminded of the tragedy that Biden had to deal with in the deaths in his family. Being a single parent is hard enough, but a grieving one? i can not imagine the strength that takes. i hope i never have to know.
There is nothing more dramatic in a persons life than a problem of such magnitude within your own family...a challenged child...or the death of one....Biden's physical and emotional reaction to having to reference his significant losses in life on national television were reasonable.





As I said, a perspective I hadnt considered. I tend to look at politics as just that, politics.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 3:39:57 PM   
xXLithiumXx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply........

Even though it does not matter, since I am quite comfortable that McCain has no chance now, I was curious about his health care plan.

Having worked in the health insurance industry and watching all the people that needed it most, get shoved out of having it by skyrocketing premiums when they actually started using it, AND being denied by any new company they applied to because of pre-existing conditions........I want to know how they expect individuals to even be able to purchase their own coverage. Here in Iowa, where we have so many self employed (farmers) that have to purchase it on their own, is a very painful subject.

As for premiums. When I was working in the business, it was nothing to meet a couple in their 50's with average health issues, paying $ 1,200.00 in premium a month. That was in 2000. I am sure it has increased dramatically, just like everything else.




This is my personal opinion of how I see it working.

When taxes come back to families, say in March or what have you, there will be an extra 5 grand in that check, now that 5 grand will most likely be used in part to pay any taxes that would be owed in, just like when you get earned in come and child tax credits...at least thats how I would think it would work.

You are supposedly going to use that to buy insurance for your family for one year. Which to me, and here's where I get a lil irritated, means that you would be putting that money right back into the pockets of those guys that arent getting any tax breaks to pay for insurance for maybe 2 months for a family of 4.

Now, I could be wrong, and I may be, when it comes to the economic end of things, I tend to look at it as a house hold with a really bad money manager.

So, take what I just said as my opinion, because thats what it is.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement


You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 3:46:15 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Gwen should have had a buzzer wired to each of them so she could zap them when they took a left turn and went into talking point mode rather than answering the questions they were asked,


I've long thought that too!

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:05:23 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		All of the left wing news agencies said Biden won...Duh, what a surprise!  I think she was hands down the winner.  On Fox last night with over a million responses, Sara was ahead 86% to 12%.  You won't find that on CNN or CBS or NBC....They had Joe Biden winning before the debate even started....NOPE  no bias there!!!

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:08:34 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, fox is pretty mainstream shit, fair and impartial, glad someone got it right.

Bill O'Reilly

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RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:16:25 PM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

All of the left wing news agencies said Biden won...Duh, what a surprise!  I think she was hands down the winner.  On Fox last night with over a million responses, Sara was ahead 86% to 12%.  You won't find that on CNN or CBS or NBC....They had Joe Biden winning before the debate even started....NOPE  no bias there!!!


oh dear god....are you serious??
Gee, i wonder why a senior Senator who has devoted more than a quarter of a century to public service would be considered a winner versus a backward beautyqueen "governor" of an ice cube.....see, thats a biased statement.
Indicating that a general hands on knowledge of politics would outdebate a puppet armed only with memorized talking points and a prayer...is simply accurate.

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:29:05 PM   
xXLithiumXx


Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
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Status: offline 		[

oh dear god....are you serious??
Gee, i wonder why a senior Senator who has devoted more than a quarter of a century to public service would be considered a winner versus a backward beautyqueen "governor" of an ice cube.....see, thats a biased statement.
Indicating that a general hands on knowledge of politics would outdebate a puppet armed only with memorized talking points and a prayer...is simply accurate.
[/quote]


How hard is it to govern 250 people and a million non voting penguins anyway?



_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement


You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:41:19 PM   
Sanity


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The reason people give for giving Governor Palin preference over Senator Biden is that she's like us, like Main Street, which I can see that.

Biden and Obama both are as plastic and phony they come... they're both true career politicians.

Screw 'em. We don't need more of that.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:50:22 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The reason people give for giving Governor Palin preference over Senator Biden is that she's like us, like Main Street, which I can see that.

Biden and Obama both are as plastic and phony they come... they're both true career politicians.

Screw 'em. We don't need more of that.



Absolutely right.

We need someone who really has no clue about foreign policy, domestic policy, or any of that boring political stuff.

Let's elect someone who we like and makes us feel all warm and fuzzy 'cause, gosh darn it, they're just plain folks like you and me.

Just one question though.

Isn't that how we ended up with the good 'ole boy in the White House now?

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 4:51:02 PM   
xXLithiumXx


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From: Hell, Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The reason people give for giving Governor Palin preference over Senator Biden is that she's like us, like Main Street, which I can see that.

Biden and Obama both are as plastic and phony they come... they're both true career politicians.

Screw 'em. We don't need more of that.




But we obviously do need more of Bush Politics and economic that have sent us into a downward spiral? We need a woman with 5 weeks of serious political experience? We need a confused old man who wants to ride the coat tails of his POW history into the grave and who wants to give hot water bottles to dehydrated babies?

Neither candidate is perfect, but lets face it, at this point, the American people are so screwed by the way the two Bush's have done us that in reality, Obama makes more sense. Palin is not Main Street, Palin is soccer mom flaunting her down's baby for the world to see. Palin is a mistake waiting to happen and McCain is just the speed bump to knock the car off the wheels. He's got the age that will put him at risk for serious health issues about mid way thru his term and we will be left with Little Miss Teen America smiling and winking at us while she talks out the side of her head like we are all fat crayon using drool boxes who eat puree'd tapioca for dinner while shitting in our diapers. Mean while, she cant make up her mind from one minute to the next and is going to send a nuke all the way to Iraq before she brings the boys home 16 months from now and then want to call as its landing in their asses to say she made a boo boo and where can she send an apology note.

Jesus. THATS what we dont need.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement


You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 8:01:20 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		General ...

Kind of amazing how many can't see past someone they don't like, or fear, or don't agree with ... to the point where they discuss the debate on only those terms.
 
The Republican spin machine's aim for this debate was bolstering their wavering supporters, and taking clear aim at undecided, swing voters in mainstream America ... swing voters that distrust Washington insiders.
 
The Republican are behind by a couple of touchdowns Everyone know it. The only smrt play was to go deep. It might not work ... probably won't ... but as they were pretty far behind to begin with, at least they gave themselves a chance to go down fighting as the folksy candidates vs. the slicksters from Washington.
 
Governor Palin won by a wide margin, because she gave her ticket a chance to compete, when they had none before. Senator Biden lost because he only attracted voters they were going to get anyway.

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: So what did you think of the debate? - 10/3/2008 8:20:50 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Nevertheless, caitie, the score remains the same.  It was much ado about nothing. A waste of oxygen by all concerned.

Ron

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 180
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