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RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/3/2008 6:53:36 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

We the people have lost all our power and all any one can care about is that Palin has a pregnant daughter and Obama might have Muslim ties.




That is so untrue. I, and most American citizens, resent the allegation.

For instance, I care which bikini Brittany is wearing on the Mexican beaches, and what Paris is wearing out to Butter tomorrow night.

See, we do have more important things on our minds than the STATUS AND FUTURE OF THE FREE WORLD.

Uncle Nasty

LMFAO I guess thats true....man who knew that media whores would trump freedom in the 2000's.

(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/3/2008 8:28:08 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		This is one of our worst days in American history.   The people have been sold out to greed and government power.   The government has a lot of power with this bill.
They are robbing the working class and taking it for themselves.  I hate them.
 
Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/3/2008 8:30:08 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		Most economists say the "rescue package" is not useful or good. However, they miss the point. Not good  for whom? Oligarhy serves always its own interests.The bad news for oligarhy is that the base it sits on has been sucked almost dry and the whole construction may collapse soon.

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/3/2008 8:56:45 PM   
NumberSix


Posts: 1378
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		Are you russian?

cause it is ogliarchy and it aint tracking at all.

Dos Vedanya
Levrenty Beria

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 1:55:08 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

and it was the Democrats that did it by a ratio of nearly 3:1.   Stock market fell a little.   Whats going on ?  


Well, they didn't do it by themselves. 91 republican reps voted for the bill as well. 108 republicans and 63 democrats voted against it. I've spent most of the evening watching the House on C-Span debate this bill and none of those who urged a 'Y' vote said it was ideal.. only that it was necessary. In my opinion, it's a bad bill bandage that isn't designed to fix a damn thing. In my opinion, this is only the tip of a very large iceberg and buying up toxic paper is .. well, just dumb.

The market is not as 'free' as it used to be. I guess I'll have to start calling my friends 'comrade' pretty soon since, apparently, our elected government has no problems with socialism and communism is just a hop, skip and a jump from that.

::trudges out to go plant some beets::


edited to add:: Oh, and for the record .. this 'limit' on Golden Parachutes for CEO's.. WTF is that! Limit? Fucking limit? I don't want one damn penny of that 700b going to some suit. Where the hell was the moratorium against ANY $ going to line ANY fucking pocket of a suit? Pfft.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 10/4/2008 2:01:51 AM >

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 3:52:14 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		the actual voting was as follows....

                           for           against
Repubublican         91              108
Democrat             172              63

I was going to let this go but my ego was troubling me so when I said  that
the democrats   "did it" by just less than 3: 1
I was....err err right.

I am temperamentally opposed to the bailout but I do not understand in sufficient
detail how the banking system is organised.
Clearly the flow of "money" in a modern economy cannot be allowed to dry up.
The banks must be subject to tighter control.
I this case economic freedom of the extremely wealthy is not healthy.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/4/2008 3:53:34 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 6:38:42 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		The number of Representatives raises another " interesting" point.
450 odd in the US pop:300million
6-700 odd in the UK pop: 60 million.

Talk about jobs for the girls  lol.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 6:52:17 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

the actual voting was as follows....

                          for           against
Repubublican         91              108
Democrat             172              63

I was going to let this go but my ego was troubling me so when I said  that
the democrats   "did it" by just less than 3: 1
I was....err err right.


My mistake.  I thought you were talking number of D:R for votes.

quote:


I am temperamentally opposed to the bailout but I do not understand in sufficient
detail how the banking system is organised.


I don't think our elected representatives do, either.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 6:58:56 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I actually guessed what you meant MmeGigs that is why I was going to be tolerant.
Its a male ego thing. lol
You should post more often I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
Very rigorous....for a woman lol
Only jokin'

(in reply to MmeGigs)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 6:59:46 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
What's going on is you have a lot of Congressmen scared shitless of losing their jobs.  I am betting a lot of them are going to. 


Mine voted against, bless his heart. 

"Walz was still not satisfied with the bill's plan to have the government take over those debts without some stake either by the financial companies selling them or for the government in those companies. "I'm just so frustrated that we couldn't get collateral from these folks," Walz said."

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 8:28:54 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		No jobs. That was the problem to begin with.

Everytime I turn on the news there is a little segment on how to save money. Those segments are not dealing with the majority of the population that I encounter on a daily basis. Sure, your going to have a little family that lives in a two story house that has two cars, one of which is new and has a $500.00 payment a month. The whiz of the month comes on the air to give his 60 second advice.......sell the car, you only need one.  Another segment might show a 2 story house, family with three children and they spend their weekends at the mall, just shopping. It is as if it represents us all. There are segments on how not to lend to people that could obviously not afford it. It was the type of loan. Period. That is all it ever was.  They managed to generate enough fear in the media to impact the rest of this country and utilized the its all your fault method and we are going to make sure that you pay one way or the other. 

No jobs. As soon as that deal was a wrap, there were segments on why it dropped AND THEN THEY ADMITTED IT. The problem is that there are no jobs.

Your not going to have any until we have a new industry. Not a $7 an hour retail job. The US does not have that. Its ok to bitch about $7 an hour service "specialist" job that went overseas. But, fact is $7 an hour won't get it.  We have nothing innovative, nothing new. Nothing, nada, zilch.


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 8:50:01 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Well here in Orange County California all our Representive voted against it.  It should be also noted the AIG which got it's own bail out deal is here celebrating at on on the most expensive Hotels here.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 9:00:39 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		You can play Dems v Republicans all day long. You got played no matter which way you went based on fear.

There are at least 16 threads trying to pin point who and what and who's argument was the strongest and blah, blah, blah. Fact is, ain't no jobs.

Even Biden said, its not going to help the small business owner. Not the ones your thinking of. Yet, they still wrote in out of fear that was generated by the media for a Bush game.

You vote Republican and you lose your ass, oh well.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 9:10:35 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

This just outrages me. Most Americans did not want this and our congress forgets who they represent and pass it anyhow. It's ridiculous. We the people have lost all our power and all any one can care about is that Palin has a pregnant daughter and Obama might have Muslim ties. Wake up people.

The congress was pressured not by the American people but by the president and big business.  Some congress people were even saying they were threatened that American would be under martial law if it did not pass. Here is a c-span video of one congressman talking about it http://www.c-spanarchives.org/flash/player-time.html?start=2008-10-02%2020:06:57&stop=2008-10-02%2020:18:45&net=1

You just may be correct young lady as FEMA is ready for about 3-5 million protestors. This is pure capitalist extortion...complete with media complicity in trying to panic the public with fear mongering.

The media has been complicit in most government corruption since Watergate. They stick with big stuff...money So we had to fork over $700 BILLION if we didn't want to end up in jail...what a deal.

We will no longer hear of free-market/capitalism, (sic) and now know that our fiscal future is out of our hands and will forever be rife with debt.

McCain is more of the same...and Obama if elected, might try to go too far and would have to go. Use your imagination and it would likely be in another bullshit terrorist attack.

(in reply to Casie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 9:22:10 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Most economists say the "rescue package" is not useful or good. However, they miss the point. Not good  for whom? Oligarhy serves always its own interests.The bad news for oligarhy is that the base it sits on has been sucked almost dry and the whole construction may collapse soon.

Actually, it is oligarchy and that is very similar to the capitalist fascism we have now. Ruling kleptocracy (at the purpose of stealing from the state)  is more the make up of say Russia (Putin $40 billion in Europe) and now likely Venezuela. (Chavez millions in Europe) Certainly the Chinese have it down and is the model capitalist fascism. $2 Trillion cash in Chinese govt. reserves.

We will continue to get propaganda to the contrary of course and I think the new ambiguousness will remain the  'autocratic' as a some how redeemable fascism.

No matter, we and our children are now fucked...oh and their children and their children and...

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 9:32:44 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

No jobs. That was the problem to begin with.

Everytime I turn on the news there is a little segment on how to save money. Those segments are not dealing with the majority of the population that I encounter on a daily basis. Sure, your going to have a little family that lives in a two story house that has two cars, one of which is new and has a $500.00 payment a month. The whiz of the month comes on the air to give his 60 second advice.......sell the car, you only need one.  Another segment might show a 2 story house, family with three children and they spend their weekends at the mall, just shopping. It is as if it represents us all. There are segments on how not to lend to people that could obviously not afford it. It was the type of loan. Period. That is all it ever was.  They managed to generate enough fear in the media to impact the rest of this country and utilized the its all your fault method and we are going to make sure that you pay one way or the other. 

No jobs. As soon as that deal was a wrap, there were segments on why it dropped AND THEN THEY ADMITTED IT. The problem is that there are no jobs.

Your not going to have any until we have a new industry. Not a $7 an hour retail job. The US does not have that. Its ok to bitch about $7 an hour service "specialist" job that went overseas. But, fact is $7 an hour won't get it.  We have nothing innovative, nothing new. Nothing, nada, zilch.

So you too like capitalism...hey ? For labor, it is now never-ending generations after generation of debt. Jobs are where you go and now we all just have to go. Around govt. there are many jobs and many good ones that still provide a marketplace. Close relative's company has had work and just got another $35,000 retrofit job on a house and my partnership just got a $60,000 paint/finish job on a new house. Evidence that there certainly is no panic for our customers.

After a few more years we will become nomads looking for our work. Then when those go...in steps FEMA and martial law.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/4/2008 9:34:18 AM >

(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 11:05:51 AM   
subtex


Posts: 129
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Okay the bail out vote is over.  The big question now is how to value mortgage backed securities (MBS).  We could come out okay on the deal if we can get a good price.  Nobody wants to buy them so we should be able to get them cheap.  How much the government pays is critical yet this is probably the part nobody will be watching.  This is also the kind of thing the government is bad at.  I think the bail out will slow down the death spiral but only if it's handled right.  I haven't read anything in the media about how the pricing would be handled only that it would be tough to do.  Some of you have some good sources was there something in the bill?

It seems like there should be some formula.  You know the original cost of all the loans in the package.  You know how much home prices have fallen.  You know the current foreclosure rate.  I don't know how these loans are packaged.  Are they just randomly tossed into a bundle or are they grouped by geography,  price, or maybe risk?  

I'd like to see the government low ball the offers. What are the banks going to do go somewhere else?  Yeah that's probably not going to happen.  I'll just be happy if they can keep up with all the paperwork.
Bill


(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 11:20:54 AM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		To be fair, bipolar, biden and obama voted for it as well, after adding their own "pork"

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 11:37:05 AM   
bluepanda


Posts: 328
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		I've got a strong gut feeling that a lot of the legislators who voted for the deal did not do so because they think it will work - in fact, I think quite a lot of them don't expect it to work. I think the reason they voted for it is that they expect the economy to continue to fall apart, and when it does, they don't want anyone blaming them for not at least trying to fix it. 

(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "the rescue package"? has passed - 10/4/2008 12:47:56 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		There is so much pork in this 'bailout' my cholesterol doubled just reading it. ::sighs:: There's some good stuff in there .. but there's a lot of bullshit as well - sec 503 on page 300-301 is an example of just one of my WTF moments while reading through the legislative text. I don't see anything in the entire bill which 'fixes' what ails us .. but then.. you can't fix stupid.

Bailout Text

German television reported last night that 2/3 of American's were against this bailout (not sure where they got that number, but seems about right to me) and the French were in that same ballpark. They're as confused as I am.

Some of the highlights of this 'fix':

Bond issue - $800 million for integrated gasification
Bond issue - $500 million for coal-based generation technology
Bond issue - $1.25 billion for advanced coal-based generation technology
Expansion of aggregrate credits from $350 million to $350 million plus $250 million for qualifying gasification
A refund for coal exports made from 1990 (18 FUCKING years ago) to the tune of $0.825 per ton
$50 million to set up and maintain an Inspector Generals office to carry out duties - amount to be available until expended (WTF?? Until expended? What if we don't need it anymore.. it just sits in limbo??)
Increase to the statutory limit of the public debt to $11.315 Trillion dollars

There's more - much more, but that's probably enough to make most folks go.. WTF??

The bill wasn't good enough to pass on it's own, so the pork was added. It seems to me that if a bill requires pork to pass .. maybe the fucking thing shouldn't be passed in the first place because, obviously, there's something wrong with it!

What the hell do I know though.. I'm just yer average dumb American who actually lives on a budget and tries to pay my bills on time.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to bluepanda)
Profile   Post #: 40
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