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Casie -> Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 1:05:59 PM)


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1
3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 8, 2008 6:15:06 The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys. Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home. Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks. It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas. But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities. After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one. “Right now, the response force requirement will be an enduring mission. How the [Defense Department] chooses to source that and whether or not they continue to assign them to NorthCom, that could change in the future,” said Army Col. Louis Vogler, chief of NorthCom future operations. “Now, the plan is to assign a force every year.” The command is at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo., but the soldiers with 1st BCT, who returned in April after 15 months in Iraq, will operate out of their home post at Fort Stewart, Ga., where they’ll be able to go to school, spend time with their families and train for their new homeland mission as well as the counterinsurgency mission in the war zones. Stop-loss will not be in effect, so soldiers will be able to leave the Army or move to new assignments during the mission, and the operational tempo will be variable. Don’t look for any extra time off, though. The at-home mission does not take the place of scheduled combat-zone deployments and will take place during the so-called dwell time a unit gets to reset and regenerate after a deployment. The 1st of the 3rd is still scheduled to deploy to either Iraq or Afghanistan in early 2010, which means the soldiers will have been home a minimum of 20 months by the time they ship out. In the meantime, they’ll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it. They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack. Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area. The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them. “It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.” The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets. “I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body. “I’m not a small guy, I weigh 230 pounds ... it put me on my knees in seconds.” The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced “sea-smurf”). “I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.” While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply. “If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq. Some brigade elements will be on call around the clock, during which time they’ll do their regular marksmanship, gunnery and other deployment training. That’s because the unit will continue to train and reset for the next deployment, even as it serves in its CCMRF mission. Should personnel be needed at an earthquake in California, for example, all or part of the brigade could be scrambled there, depending on the extent of the need and the specialties involved. Other branches included The active Army’s new dwell-time mission is part of a NorthCom and DOD response package. Active-duty soldiers will be part of a force that includes elements from other military branches and dedicated National Guard Weapons of Mass Destruction-Civil Support Teams. A final mission rehearsal exercise is scheduled for mid-September at Fort Stewart and will be run by Joint Task Force Civil Support, a unit based out of Fort Monroe, Va., that will coordinate and evaluate the interservice event. In addition to 1st BCT, other Army units will take part in the two-week training exercise, including elements of the 1st Medical Brigade out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Bragg, N.C. There also will be Air Force engineer and medical units, the Marine Corps Chemical, Biological Initial Reaction Force, a Navy weather team and members of the Defense Logistics Agency and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency. One of the things Vogler said they’ll be looking at is communications capabilities between the services. “It is a concern, and we’re trying to check that and one of the ways we do that is by having these sorts of exercises. Leading up to this, we are going to rehearse and set up some of the communications systems to make sure we have interoperability,” he said. “I don’t know what America’s overall plan is — I just know that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that are standing by to come and help if they’re called,” Cloutier said. “It makes me feel good as an American to know that my country has dedicated a force to come in and help the people at home.”

-------------------------------------------Well we've know for a while that the Posse Comitatus Act has been thrown down. How does everyone feel now that their are federal military operating on our soil in a way not permitted since the Civil War?




Termyn8or -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 1:24:09 PM)

Talked to a soldier a while back. I asked "What if there was a revolution in the US ?" and he responded "We'll put it down".

Possee comitatus is gone along with habeaus corpus. It is all gone. Get used to it.

T




Slavehandsome -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 1:39:49 PM)

Ah, life in the People's Republic of America.  Can't you just smell the capitalism?  Its just a shame our stock is in the shitter.




DomKen -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 1:56:59 PM)

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 3:01:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

Ah, life in the People's Republic of America.  Can't you just smell the capitalism?  Its just a shame our stock is in the shitter.

What we have in this country is not capitalism. We don't have a freemarket at all. Period. Thats the problem with this country. Well one of many anyhow.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 3:04:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Talked to a soldier a while back. I asked "What if there was a revolution in the US ?" and he responded "We'll put it down".

Possee comitatus is gone along with habeaus corpus. It is all gone. Get used to it.

T

I know some soldiers that feel the complete opposite. In fact saying they would go as far as abandoning the military and joining the resistance. Then again, I'm young so many of my friends are in the military so perhaps it's from a different perspective.

Yeah they are gone....but I refuse to get use to it. Just gives me the drive to work even harder for the cause of liberty.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 3:06:40 PM)

I sure hope your right. Sad but true our troops are the ones fed with the most propaganda bull shit there is. I suppose I'm not as optimistic as yourself.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.




igor2003 -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 4:22:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.


May 4, 1970.  Kent State University.  U.S. Troops vs. U.S. civilians.  It already HAS happened and could EASILY happen again on an even larger scale.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 4:32:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.


May 4, 1970.  Kent State University.  U.S. Troops vs. U.S. civilians.  It already HAS happened and could EASILY happen again on an even larger scale.

I was just coming here to add that to my post...thankx for beating me to it!!




Alumbrado -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 5:18:17 PM)

Our troops have been training in Operations Other Than Warfare (urban operations against non-uniformed, i.e. indistinguishable from civilian  'insurgents')  for years, and the line between conducting illegal military or law enforcement operations against American citizens, and 'securing a sector against hostiles'  is increasingly, and IMO deliberately blurred. 




LadyEllen -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 5:37:18 PM)

The problem of having your army engage the population from which it is drawn is easily solved.

What one does is to post locally raised units to other localities far away, where they have no roots in or loyalty to the population and preferably have some degree of distrust or even antipathy for the locals. For instance, to do this in the UK one would post Scottish units to England, English units to Scotland, in the full knowledge that resistance to certain orders would be minimal.

Equally, one might raise units from other ethnic or cultural groups or nations to those populations which one might wish to engage, where the degree of distrust and antipathy runs deeper still and resistance to certain orders be further minimised. For instance, one might deploy Protestants to Catholic areas of Northern Ireland, and Catholics to Protestant areas of Scotland, or in the days of Empire use Colonial units almost anywhere within the Home Countries and vice versa.

Of course, all this is hypothetical.

E




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 5:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Our troops have been training in Operations Other Than Warfare (urban operations against non-uniformed, i.e. indistinguishable from civilian  'insurgents')  for years, and the line between conducting illegal military or law enforcement operations against American citizens, and 'securing a sector against hostiles'  is increasingly, and IMO deliberately blurred. 


The line has surely been blurred. The problem for me is that this federal military troops are specifically to "help" and deal with American citizens.The line surely has been blurred. The problem for me is that these federal military troops are specifically to "help" and deal with American citizens. Our founding fathers promoted civil disobedience (or civil unrest as they call it.) and now our government is doing everything to prevent it.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 6:56:51 PM)

quote:

Of course, all this is hypothetical.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The problem of having your army engage the population from which it is drawn is easily solved.

What one does is to post locally raised units to other localities far away, where they have no roots in or loyalty to the population and preferably have some degree of distrust or even antipathy for the locals. For instance, to do this in the UK one would post Scottish units to England, English units to Scotland, in the full knowledge that resistance to certain orders would be minimal.

Equally, one might raise units from other ethnic or cultural groups or nations to those populations which one might wish to engage, where the degree of distrust and antipathy runs deeper still and resistance to certain orders be further minimised. For instance, one might deploy Protestants to Catholic areas of Northern Ireland, and Catholics to Protestant areas of Scotland, or in the days of Empire use Colonial units almost anywhere within the Home Countries and vice versa.

Of course, all this is hypothetical.

E

I often think this as well. I think if they are gonna control us on a mass scale by means of military...it won't be by our military.




DomKen -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 9:09:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.


May 4, 1970.  Kent State University.  U.S. Troops vs. U.S. civilians.  It already HAS happened and could EASILY happen again on an even larger scale.

Kent State was not a case where a unit was sent into the field ordered to fire on civilians. The worst that can be said is one 2nd lieutenant lost his cool and made a terrible mistake but do not mistake that incident for an indication that US servicemen would cooperate with a Tianamen style crackdown.




DesFIP -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 9:15:42 PM)

I thought this was what the National Guard was meant for? It must be a good ten years or more since New York State was hit by a vicious ice storm. Power didn't get restored for over 11 days in the Adirondacks. The National Guard was called in to help go house to house to get people to shelters and have a centralized clearing house to field calls from frantic out of town relatives.




DomKen -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 9:28:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I thought this was what the National Guard was meant for? It must be a good ten years or more since New York State was hit by a vicious ice storm. Power didn't get restored for over 11 days in the Adirondacks. The National Guard was called in to help go house to house to get people to shelters and have a centralized clearing house to field calls from frantic out of town relatives.

The NG is supposed to help out with natural disasters. What troops are not supposed to do is be involved in law enforcement. Look into the Posse Comitatus Act for details.




igor2003 -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/3/2008 10:08:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.


May 4, 1970.  Kent State University.  U.S. Troops vs. U.S. civilians.  It already HAS happened and could EASILY happen again on an even larger scale.

Kent State was not a case where a unit was sent into the field ordered to fire on civilians. The worst that can be said is one 2nd lieutenant lost his cool and made a terrible mistake but do not mistake that incident for an indication that US servicemen would cooperate with a Tianamen style crackdown.


The NG troops were sent with LIVE ammunition to maintain order on the Kent campus.  There is contraversy as to why the shooting started.  One 30 minute reel-to-reel tape supposidly caught the words "Right here!  Get set!  Point! Fire!" immediately preceeding the barage of gunfire.  But, regardless, they were US troops firing on US civilians.  One 2nd lieutenant alone didn't fire 67 times killing four and wounding nine US civilians, many of which had no part what-so-ever to do with the protest.  Even as an "accident", it has happened and could happen again.

If for any reason marshal law were declared and troops were brought out to patrol the streets, and if those troops are told that a group they were going to confront were trouble makers bent on breaking the law (whether true or not), and if those troops were for some reason told to fire on that group, I don't doubt for a second that they would not hesitate to do so.  They are trained to follow orders and not hesitate.

I definitely hope that it will never come to that in this country, but I have no doubts that the possibility does exist.




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/4/2008 7:47:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I thought this was what the National Guard was meant for? It must be a good ten years or more since New York State was hit by a vicious ice storm. Power didn't get restored for over 11 days in the Adirondacks. The National Guard was called in to help go house to house to get people to shelters and have a centralized clearing house to field calls from frantic out of town relatives.

The NG is supposed to help out with natural disasters. What troops are not supposed to do is be involved in law enforcement. Look into the Posse Comitatus Act for details.

The problem is the posse comitatus act is irrelevent thankx to I believe the military commissons act of 2006




Casie -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/4/2008 7:48:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think this is a very bad idea but remain confident that no one could successfully send US troops against US civilians.


May 4, 1970.  Kent State University.  U.S. Troops vs. U.S. civilians.  It already HAS happened and could EASILY happen again on an even larger scale.

Kent State was not a case where a unit was sent into the field ordered to fire on civilians. The worst that can be said is one 2nd lieutenant lost his cool and made a terrible mistake but do not mistake that incident for an indication that US servicemen would cooperate with a Tianamen style crackdown.


The NG troops were sent with LIVE ammunition to maintain order on the Kent campus.  There is contraversy as to why the shooting started.  One 30 minute reel-to-reel tape supposidly caught the words "Right here!  Get set!  Point! Fire!" immediately preceeding the barage of gunfire.  But, regardless, they were US troops firing on US civilians.  One 2nd lieutenant alone didn't fire 67 times killing four and wounding nine US civilians, many of which had no part what-so-ever to do with the protest.  Even as an "accident", it has happened and could happen again.

If for any reason marshal law were declared and troops were brought out to patrol the streets, and if those troops are told that a group they were going to confront were trouble makers bent on breaking the law (whether true or not), and if those troops were for some reason told to fire on that group, I don't doubt for a second that they would not hesitate to do so.  They are trained to follow orders and not hesitate.

I definitely hope that it will never come to that in this country, but I have no doubts that the possibility does exist.


It is a quite frightening possiblity that is for sure.




DomKen -> RE: Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 (10/4/2008 8:04:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I thought this was what the National Guard was meant for? It must be a good ten years or more since New York State was hit by a vicious ice storm. Power didn't get restored for over 11 days in the Adirondacks. The National Guard was called in to help go house to house to get people to shelters and have a centralized clearing house to field calls from frantic out of town relatives.

The NG is supposed to help out with natural disasters. What troops are not supposed to do is be involved in law enforcement. Look into the Posse Comitatus Act for details.

The problem is the posse comitatus act is irrelevent thankx to I believe the military commissons act of 2006


The law you're talking about was already repealed in its entirety. Posse Comitatus stands.




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