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RE: trust - 10/7/2008 6:59:14 PM

pridedenied

Posts: 83
Joined: 9/28/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL:sravaka

trust is something I feel or don't feel. I may choose to behave in a way that indicates trust

I totally agree with this. Trust is a toughy for me as I have been hurt many times. (not in the pleasurable way*smiles*) Usually it takes a lot of concrete proof and a decent period of time for me to really let someone into "the innermost sanctum" of me. But weirdly there are those rare people that sneak into my heart and set up camp without permit or authorization. My current domme being one. The heart works in mysterious ways. I'm just hoping and praying it has my best interest in mind...

pridedenied

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 21

RE: trust - 10/7/2008 7:15:52 PM

dualityinmotion

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/7/2008
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I used to trust more easily than I do now. I was honest amd honorable myself and could not conceive of dishonor in someone for whom I felt affection. I have learned better.

Now I see trust as something that is fragile and tenuous at first...part leap of faith on one person's part, yes...and part intellectual comfort with giving over (power or love or just being vulnerable in any way. I see dominants needing to trust in order to be emotionally vulnerable, too.) based on the other person's actions. That's where being "trustworthy" comes in. When they show me they are worthy of my trust...by the little things first, like calling when they say they will and doing what they say they will...and later by showing themselves to be persons of integrity in everything from how they address the wait staff in the restaurant to how they speak to me...trust is increased.

In a way, I see us weaving threads of trust toward each other over a space over time. If we are very fortunate, we will find people who help us weave very strong bridges between us.

I'm pretty sure that philosophy would stand regardless of the "flavor" of the relationship. Trusting people is trusting people. Caution is advised, and thinking with one's "naughty bits" is usually not a good idea, in my experience.

(in reply to pridedenied)

Post #: 22

RE: trust - 10/30/2008 5:57:17 PM

panthersub

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/20/2008
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Trust to me is when i can trust my Dom to not permanately harm me in anyway and know my limits without asking. Also by knowing my body language enough to stop or slow down play as needed. Our trust developed over a period of time and took a while as i did have issues trusting any guy. So he took his time and over time we developed that trust issue and he basically broke down my wall. To this day he can do almost anything to me and will know how far to push.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 23

RE: trust - 10/30/2008 6:28:29 PM

shivermetimbers

Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
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My trust is gained simply by going with my instincts talking with a person. My dearest Deanna and I have both shared our experiences, and we both know to never to engage in anything we haven't either done to someone else, or don't feel that what was done to us gave us the expertise to engage in with each other. We may both love having x/y/z done to us, but we won't try to step outside of our comfort level (fire play is a good example-I have had it done to me, but I never learned how to safely do it to someone else). Discussing these things before hand let's us both know where we can go for each other, and I trust her with my life. She can do anything she wants with me, because I know whatever it is that's she's doing, she's well versed in the act.

_____________________________

I love you Deanna, you make every day a better day.

If we descended from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?

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(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 24

RE: trust - 10/30/2008 7:42:27 PM

antipode

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Joined: 4/19/2004
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I concur with the someone you're arguing with - I trust by default, until such time as I determine the trust is misplaced. In my view, one cannot do otherwise, that would mean there is no trust, or little trust, when a relationship (of any kind) begins. I would not consider asking another to deal with me straight if I mistrusted them. And the consequence is that if they misuse my trust, they're very much toast. It is a lot quicker than the other way around, and one always has a valid, rational reason to behave and interact the way one does.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 25

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 1:26:45 AM

sravaka

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Joined: 6/20/2008
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At risk of being intrusive, may I ask if you have always trusted this way? or did you make a decision to do so, or did it evolve?

What you say about the beginnings of relationships makes a great deal of sense, and leads me to recognize that despite the confusion in the OP, it's not as though I enter things with an explicitly distrustful attitude... though at the same time I am seldom surprised if the lack of distrust turns out to have been misplaced (if that makes sense).

Maybe the really difficult part (for me) is knowing when to trust a feeling of distrust. It sounds like this doesn't arise for you, and that makes me curious (and intrusive).

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 26

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 2:57:51 AM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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Trust is something I feel. Or not.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 27

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 7:39:20 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this: What is trust to you? How does it develop? How is it earned? How do you know (or what makes you suspect) you have enough of it for x/y/z/ purpose?

I have serious trust issues, currently. To the degree where it is unlikely that I will ever give myself over completely again. This is not to say I won't, but it currently seems unlikely for me.

I've been spending the last couple of months with what seems to be a very kind and caring man. But, you see, I say "seems to be" because I don't yet trust that he actually is. I'm aware of my distrust and of its source, so I try not to dump that baggage on him (I don't outwardly question the things he says or his motives, but there's always a part of me now that asks "What if he isn't sincere?"). He and I talked about this just last night, actually.

I don't know what it will take for me to ever truly trust again, but some of the things others have said here come to mind - taking things slowly and developing a "history" with him that I can reflect on. And talking a LOT. I must also bear in mind that he is not "him" and to not judge him as such.

Our conversation last night had to do with a submissive's trust, the responsibility of a Dom/Master, and understanding both. I have been seriously burned by placing complete trust into hands that either didn't understand it or didn't care about it. I don't entirely fault them - I chose to do it. But now I am extra careful. Perhaps too careful.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 28

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 8:23:29 AM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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For me, trust is a choice that I make whether consciously or subconsciously. In regards to trusting a partner that choice is not made blindly or in a vacuum. As leadership mentioned, trust in someone else is the confidence that I have that I can reasonably predict someone's future behavior based on past experience or knowledge of that person.

Often times, trust in someone else is not needed for me to engage in an activity. What I need is trust in myself that I can cope with any consequence that comes from engaging in that activity.

For me, trust in others developes over time and shared experiences together and it is earned by them behaving consistently and often it is consistency between words and actions.

Trust is not always in regards to positive (for lack of a better description) actions either. As a kid, I knew that I could trust my brother to do exactly what he wanted to do especially if our parents told him not to do it. With a boyfriend in college, I could trust that he was going to be late for any activity that we had planned. If he said he would be there in X amount of time, I would double it and not expect him until later.

These things are not exactly desirable, but I could trust that they would happen and I adjust my expectations of that person accordingly.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 29

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 8:35:03 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Trust is something that starts very small and either grows or diminishes with the other person's actions.

If I accept a dinner invitation, I trust the man will show up within ten minutes of the specified time. If he shows up two hours late, he's lost a lot of my trust and respect. If he does show up on time and offers a compliment, I'll be more likely to extend a little more trust. Perhaps plan an outing where I don't know all the details, just what to wear and the hours we'll be out.

But I need to see him in action, in stressful situations to see how he really reacts. And I need to see that he keeps his cool even then to really trust him. Because too many people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

i absolutely agree with this...i lose all kinds of respect and trust instantly if my perception of him is that he loses control of his emotions over a discussion or definitely if he loses his cool over a situation....not to say a person cant have a transient response to something....but if the initial response taints the way he ultimately handles things...then i cant believe that hell remain cool throughout whatever might come my way in regards to whatever crisis or issue. Once thats shot i cant even play anymore, let alone move ahead with anything else.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 30

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 9:14:44 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
By way of background, I have an ongoing dispute with someone about the nature of trust. He insists that trust is a choice-- decide to trust someone, and voila! you trust them. If you turn out to be wrong, you worry about that later. But to me, trust is something I feel or don't feel.

There are some people whose inner dialogue and self-talk is more powerful than for others. Some of these people can adopt a feeling merely by telling themself to do so. So it sounds like, for your friend, he can make that choice.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 31

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 10:53:26 AM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Trust takes time to build. In my personal experience it was also a two -way street as well. Trusting that another could finally let go of their old baggage regarding relationships, plus having the patience to show them that I am worthy of their trust.
I was fortunate to have had a good marriage, however prior to that I spent some serious years in hell's war where trust was placed in the wrong hands. Now with Sir, I had to be patient with myself and try not to rush into things and laced our relationship with fantasy.I knew we both had skeltons in our closets that held our memories of days long gone by. These memories would make it hard to put 100 % faith and trust in another, without the benifit of time.
I can put trust in a person from the beginning, but never 100%. Experience and time can only open that door for me. As in any primary relationship that I have, I too need to show that person I am worthy of their trust.
oceanwynds

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 32

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 10:56:42 AM

wulfgarw

Posts: 752
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline

Trust? What is this word, trust?

*sarcasm from one with severe trust issues....*

_____________________________

"Alone I Walk
Broken I Stand
Betrayed I Fight
Forgotten I Fall"

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 33

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 11:09:40 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
There are some people whose inner dialogue and self-talk is more powerful than for others. Some of these people can adopt a feeling merely by telling themself to do so. So it sounds like, for your friend, he can make that choice.

I don't think that this is stated accurately. I think everyone's internal dialogue is extremely powerful and has a strong influence on what they feel. It is internal dialogue that either sows the seed of distrust or inspires trust. What we think generates certain feelings and then those feelings create new thoughts and it is a continual feedback loop that can have varying consequences on our lives.

Some people choose to become very aware and intuned with their inner dialogue and its impact on their life and choose to learn the skill of changing their thoughts so that they can change their feelings. Others choose not to gain this awareness. It isn't that one person's internal dialogue is more powerful than anothers, it is just that one person has choosen to use their internal dialogue as a tool to create the emotions they want to feel and another hasn't.

There is no 'yes or no' as to whether trust is a choice or a feeling. It is either, neither or both depending on your own perceptions of the world and yourself.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 34

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 11:23:40 AM

girlivy

Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this: What is trust to you? This answer greatly varies between the indiviuals in my life.

How does it develop? It starts with trusting oneself. Having patience, and spending time getting to know and understand another.

How is it earned? Gradually

How do you know (or what makes you suspect) you have enough of it for x/y/z/ purpose?

I never "know", suppose that is where trust comes into play, and listening to my gut.
Cheers!

_____________________________

AUTHENTIC SPIRITUAL GROWTH NEVER COMES FROM EXPERIENCES THAT THE EGO CAN PREDICT OR CONTROL.
OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 35

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 11:36:35 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

I had someone recently lose my trust by violating my limits and being unskilled. It makes me appreciate the trust I have in my Warden. I have always felt safe with him. he understands safety and puts it first.

You can give trust to someone. but you can also lose trust in the same person.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
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(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 36

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 6:16:56 PM

Barelily

Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
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I'd have to agree with you, I don't think you can just wake up one day and decide to trust someone and have it work. I do think you can decide to trust someone and work toward that, subtle difference but it's there.
It's just my opinion but I'm not all together sure one person can ever completely fully trust another person in all aspects of their lives. We all have "baggage" we carry around even in our subconscious minds that we aren't fully aware of. We can however strive to work at it and try to recognize the times this baggage is getting in the way and do something about it.

< Message edited by Barelily -- 10/31/2008 6:29:06 PM >

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 37

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 7:14:31 PM

antipode

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Joined: 4/19/2004
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No, sravaka, I learned to handle trust this way. Or taught myself, I supppose. When my career did not go up the way I wanted, I kept getting back up the ladder until I eventually hit New York City (I know, that's kind of the opposite of what would be logical), and learned very quickly that if you want to stay up on that ladder you can't run around doubting yourself and others - trust is as much a matter of believing in yourself, as it is believing in others. You simply cannot give yourself or somebody an assignment and say "let's see if you can hack it". You can't even think it, they can see it in your face. You have to hand it to them and believe for them. Scary, but there is no other way.

Make sense?

I saw many around me dig their own graves, self-destruct, fall flat on their face, look over their shoulders 24/7, and slink back to Hicktown and lick their wounds. This was my solution. It worked. I have mentored a few people in their careers or studies, and "walked" them through this, and it works for them, even if I have to sometimes go see them in London or Beijing (last month) to pep 'em up. But that is part of that responsibility, and a fun thing to do.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 38

RE: trust - 10/31/2008 11:47:38 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

Trust is a matter of judging your own fight or flight instinct. Simple.

If someone creeps you out, it is USUALLY for good reason. Yet, because we get lonely or mis-interpret our own instincts sometimes we ignore the warning signs (physical or mental) totally. Your hair might stand on end yet you stay on that bad date out of guilt? or the time you took to do your hair? who knows.

Trust in that sense can also decieve you. How many of us in our lifetime have been with the 'perfect' person, a calm, thoughtful person (vanilla) and whammm one day they are abusers or you arise in the morning and find them just downright evil? Answer...many.

Trust is the ability to accept the (understatment) of another's hidden agendas when they occur. Simplified: 'for better or for worse' in a marriage vow. You either trust an issue will pass or that the person/situation is good/or will improve until proven otherwise.

aka, Trust is a caveat emptor situation. Let the buyer/seller (of souls) beware.

Simplest advice: don't be a sucker lol.

< Message edited by came4U -- 10/31/2008 11:49:05 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 39

RE: trust - 11/1/2008 7:58:24 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
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Thank you for your reply, Antipode. I must say, I've never thought twice about trust in the context of the workplace-- there I've never had a problem figuring out quite promptly how reliable people are and what their motives are, and manuevering accordingly to accomplish whatever I'm trying to do. And if trust is betrayed there I'll be annoyed or amused, depending on the stakes, but it doesn't faze me personally.

So I'm puzzled, again/still... why does it require so much more thought and anxiety in the context of personal relationships?

I think I want to be like you and the interlocutor mentioned in the OP when I grow up. :-)

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 40

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