RE: Creationism in public schools

RE: Creationism in public schools (Full Version)

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bipolarber -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 10:33:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Marion, Intelligent Design, and Creationisim are exactly the same thing. Exactly. During the court battle in (I think) Kansas over allowing it into the classrooms there, the folks defending REAL science found that the "ID" pamphlets were earlier "Creationist" pamphlets, only the two phrases had been swapped in their word processing program. All the other information about what the "theory" supposedly was, the "evidence" for it, and the people who supported it, were all exactly the same. Yes and Ben Stien just made a movie about that a while ago. Kinda of odd though....if it's true that there are NO scientists that believe in creationism, where did Ben get all those scientists for his movie? They found them the same way the tobacco industry finds doctors to say that smoking doesn't cause cancer... or the same way you find "experts" who will tell you the the US government is hiding a '47 Roswell out in some hanger somewhere, and that dreams of aliens mean you REALLY HAVE been abducted by them, and have a chip in your ass now. BTW, if you've seen "Expelled" you'd realize it's one of the best examples of WHY the evolution argument has no serious opposition.

Owner59 -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 10:46:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Marion, Intelligent Design, and Creationisim are exactly the same thing. Exactly. During the court battle in (I think) Kansas over allowing it into the classrooms there, the folks defending REAL science found that the "ID" pamphlets were earlier "Creationist" pamphlets, only the two phrases had been swapped in their word processing program. All the other information about what the "theory" supposedly was, the "evidence" for it, and the people who supported it, were all exactly the same. Yes and Ben Stien just made a movie about that a while ago. Kinda of odd though....if it's true that there are NO scientists that believe in creationism, where did Ben get all those scientists for his movie? Same place Exon gets their scientists....at the store. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ So Ben Stien has proof that the earth was created in six days,about 10,000 years ago? Got a link for that? In case you didn`t know,this is at political debate.Not a scientific or theological one either. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Added: I like that many folks are pointing out that mainstream churches and religious schools teach biology as it should be taught. This is why people distinguish fundies from normal, regular religious folks,because fundies are not like mainstream church goers. Before Tony Snow joined the dark side,I once read him use the phrase "American Taliban" in reference to the religious right. This was pre-9/11, though.

LDRandAstarte -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 10:58:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Marion, Intelligent Design, and Creationisim are exactly the same thing. Exactly. During the court battle in (I think) Kansas over allowing it into the classrooms there, the folks defending REAL science found that the "ID" pamphlets were earlier "Creationist" pamphlets, only the two phrases had been swapped in their word processing program. All the other information about what the "theory" supposedly was, the "evidence" for it, and the people who supported it, were all exactly the same. Yes and Ben Stien just made a movie about that a while ago. Kinda of odd though....if it's true that there are NO scientists that believe in creationism, where did Ben get all those scientists for his movie? Same place Exon gets their scientists....at the store. Actually I think it was Central Casting.

NorthernGent -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 11:15:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Putting them on brown paper though? We're a nation of colossal perverts, Ken......we'll do anything to anything.......particularly when employed by the church....

seeksfemslave -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 12:28:28 PM)
To take the mickey out of simplistic creationism that has an anthropomorphic Deity as the prime mover is easy enough. That doesnt alter the fact that our existance raises deep philosophical problems of cause, meaning , is everything reducible to a materialist mechanics capable of producing the downright impossible including all stops from an atom to a galaxy with life in between. Science simply cant answer questions like this despite what the cleverer buggas amongst you might think. As for the less clever buggas, you think what you want. ps I want my LFCR back. Got 'em back I think. Lets see.

kittinSol -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 12:32:51 PM)
I still don't want my progeny to be indoctrinated at the public school they attend. If people want to brain wash their brood, let them do it at home. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that: I thought America was engaged in a war against theocracy abroad. It's good when countries practice what they preach, you know.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 12:52:36 PM)
Brainwashing has nowt to do with it. One point of view would not be taught. Its a question of the differing views put in their context. For example its not that difficult to see that a paternalist religious out look is basically based on human projection.NO? Its also quite clear that many are unthinkingly committed to N/Selection despite the major factual uncertainties upon which it rests.. ie its their religion based on reductionist mechanics. Thats good ennit. In an age of Quantum Mechanics the certainties claimed by Dorkonians are an anachronism. Thats good as well. Actually its probably a load of old tosh.

kittinSol -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 12:55:55 PM)
Note I don't disagree that they could include creationism in a course on Crackpotheorism, make that a brand new line of research. Throw in the Sasquatch, little green men and Nessie, and you've got one hell of an entertaining class for today's youngsters.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:03:36 PM)
Nothing as interesting as reading a closed mind in action.

kittinSol -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:04:34 PM)
I knew you were a fan of introspection.

Moloch -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I still don't want my progeny to be indoctrinated at the public school they attend. If people want to brain wash their brood, let them do it at home. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that: I thought America was engaged in a war against theocracy abroad. It's good when countries practice what they preach, you know. Yep! Don't pray in my school and I wont think in your church.

kittinSol -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:51:12 PM)
Bingo, we 'ave a winnah.

Raechard -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:53:04 PM)
People like to teach religious subjects because they are open to interpretation and so you can't be proven wrong. Anyone can be an expert on the bible after reading it once and then saying this means that and that means this. Those that can do, those that can't teach, those that can't teach preach. Am I wrong probably, who cares. See.

kittinSol -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:57:23 PM)
I don't think you're wrong. Religious zealots, by opposition to people of faith, like to use religion to impose their view of the world on others. This is why I hold the opinion that the creationist movement, which strives to have its beliefs 'taught' in schools, are in it for a political ride, not out of a desire to illuminate anybody.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 1:59:06 PM)
The way I think about it is, if it's taught like religious studies are, it's looked at from as scientific approach as it can be... And since Darwinism hasn't been duplicated (as well as the Big Bang), they're technically just theories as well.

Raechard -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 2:09:51 PM)
These are theories with supporting evidence, such as fossil records, and observed changes in species. When I studied a part course in geology, which is also theory to some extent, one of the markers for the age of a sequence of rock was this fossilised organism in the rock that had changed over generations. If evolution is wrong then are we also saying some aspects of Geology are wrong? What parts do you take as being right? There is supporting evidence which paints a certain picture that none of us can be absolutely sure about but this picture is painted with logic and understanding from various separate studies in different fields. There is no equivalence to Darwinism in terms of the maturity of the theory.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 2:51:37 PM)
But they are already indoctrinated, just not to relgion but to be good, behaving citizens that follow the government no matter what. quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I still don't want my progeny to be indoctrinated at the public school they attend. If people want to brain wash their brood, let them do it at home. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that: I thought America was engaged in a war against theocracy abroad. It's good when countries practice what they preach, you know.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 3:02:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raechard If evolution is wrong then are we also saying some aspects of Geology are wrong? What parts do you take as being right? No, I'm not saying evolution is wrong at all. My personal thoughts on the subject are mix and match of religion and science. I'm just saying they're both theories and perhaps if people are so in favor of Creationism being taught in schools, it could be approached as I mentioned previously.

thishereboi -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 3:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Do you think creationism should be taught in public schools as if it were a valid scientific theory? I already answered that, but for the record.....No When they get to the point that they can truthfully state that all graduating students can read and write at the right level, then I will discuss adding or not adding classes. At this point they can't get the basics down, why would I trust them to teach religion.

thishereboi -> RE: Creationism in public schools (10/6/2008 3:13:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Marion, Intelligent Design, and Creationisim are exactly the same thing. Exactly. During the court battle in (I think) Kansas over allowing it into the classrooms there, the folks defending REAL science found that the "ID" pamphlets were earlier "Creationist" pamphlets, only the two phrases had been swapped in their word processing program. All the other information about what the "theory" supposedly was, the "evidence" for it, and the people who supported it, were all exactly the same. Yes and Ben Stien just made a movie about that a while ago. Kinda of odd though....if it's true that there are NO scientists that believe in creationism, where did Ben get all those scientists for his movie? You do know creationists are an embarrassment to America. A scientist who blieves in creationism isn't a scientist and that's a fact! You do know, I really don't care if you think that. But at leasy your admitting there are scientists who believe in it.

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