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RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 6:33:51 AM

Stroke

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Joined: 8/17/2007
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If a sub enjoys being with a man who does not take control and wants her to make the decisions regarding their relationship then absolutely that is her business. And if you choose to defend that right then I have no problem with that. My view comes from M/s, not from BDSM play. I see the relationship as a serious matter and not as a game.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 21

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 6:39:40 AM

silkenfire

Posts: 130
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline

There are many things I have slowly introduced into my relationship without directly being told. I believe they are important because certain things, as added make him realize the level to which our relationship is changing. We met on here with the intent of a D/s relationship but started out much more like lovers on an equal footing as things grew.

Master knows he can't have me not on furniture if he wants me to be sane -- I have a joint condition. I can't really do the whole human furniture thing either-- not physically an option.

I've been doing little things though, that put the relationship in more perspective, and it's not topping from the bottom, either. When I make dinner I serve him first; I was mortified last night to forget that, although I think he found it simply amusing. I've started cleaning when he goes to work, around his house. When I'm acting particularly subbie I wait for permission for everything. When asked to climb the stairs, I wait permission to leave the very top of the stairs and enter the bedroom.

Sometimes this backfires. He has to be paying attention to appreciate it. One night I tried to wait permission to get in bed, but the lights were out. He seemingly did not notice that I was there. I eventually climbed into bed anyways, because I know that Master is one of those that appreciates me in bed with him rather than one to expect me to sleep at the foot of his bed, etc. You have to think of HIS needs, and then work them into your day. Asking permissions for things you wouldn't necessarily do otherwise is a great one for a sub to add themselves -- the dominant can always say "you don't need my permission for x just do what when you need to" if they don't enjoy micromanaging your life.

(in reply to CruelDesires)

Post #: 22

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 6:45:26 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

If a sub enjoys being with a man who does not take control and wants her to make the decisions regarding their relationship then absolutely that is her business.

Now you are changing the facts of the case. Given the manner in which this conversation is progressing, perhaps that will be a more productive strategy for you.

But to bring us back to the facts in evidence, this is not about a man who does not want to take control, it's about two new folks who are looking for examples of protocols so they can choose what appeals to them. And I cannot imagine that any Dominant (including you or me) employs only those protocols that they have created entirely independent of examples they've found elsewhere. How's the kettle these days?

quote:

And if you choose to defend that right then I have no problem with that.

Yeah, I choose to defend everyone's right to make their relationship whatever they like. Are you advocating a "one true way"? I might have a problem with that.

quote:

My view comes from M/s, not from BDSM play.

And that presumes what? That other people's views come from BDSM play? And just how did you divine that fact, other than they disagree with you?

quote:

I see the relationship as a serious matter and not as a game.

I see it as Chutes & Ladders myself.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 23

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:04:24 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

If a sub enjoys being with a man who does not take control and wants her to make the decisions regarding their relationship then absolutely that is her business. And if you choose to defend that right then I have no problem with that. My view comes from M/s, not from BDSM play. I see the relationship as a serious matter and not as a game.

Only it isn't about control for everyone. It is about authority.
And I don't play games either. Only I don't make assumptions that others don't just because they disagree.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/7/2008 8:05:43 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 24

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:22:28 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gorgias
I've been thinking of some more extreme stuff, maybe being on all fours the entirety of the weekend or being gagged the majority of the time. What do you guys think?

I believe you are being unrealistic in these suggestions. You risk damaging your back and knees for the entire weekend and you are setting yourself up for a failiure. Being gagged the majority will also put strain on you jaw.

Be more practical. You could spend the weekend naked. Define some sort of ritual request for when you can speak to him? Ask for food etc? Only eat after him? Start working on waking rituals and protocols - like who rises first, who gets coffee - breakfast in bed etc?

For the record, I don't see asking for suggestions as lame - and even if both are new, everyone starts somewhere.
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Gorgias)

Post #: 25

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:37:01 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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I don't see it as lame either, especially when it is stated that "we are new" instead of I need "new" ideas. But I must admit that I do get totally turned off by a dominant who sends the "s" out looking for protocol ideas, punishment ideas, a new sub/slave, etc.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 26

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:47:20 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Hi Erin!
But the OP never said he was sent out to find protocols he asked for advice because he would like to offer up some suggestions to his dominant. He wants to request more use of protocols to him because as a s-type, he feels this would reflect his submission. Now whilst I would suggest to the OP he shouldn;t dictate that protocols should be incorporated into his dynamic - and that is up to his dominant - suggesting it or requesting it? - I see that as good communication.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 27

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:53:27 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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check out post #3

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 28

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 9:06:57 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Bwah - missed that.Thanks Ein for pointing out my error.
It is still possible this is by his request - maybe the dominant is trying to get an idea if it's not a big thing for him. I really have no issue with a dominant getting their s-type to find ideas. It's like Darcy instructing me to pass on his regards to a person I am writing to, or instructing me to do his ironing, or to organise the finer details of meeting someone like times etc. It's just an instruction that the s-type obeys. We have no idea why the dominant instructs - maybe he doesn't get online as much to post or doesn't attend groups. I know that I am there to submit to what Darcy tells me to do - that doesn't make him lazy.

Not that you called him lazy erin, but some did. Funnily enough, dominant types. I see that nothing more than cock strutting and I have more respect for someone who trusts their s-type enough to attend to a task than a load of nay sayers aiming for oneupmanship by claiming a dominant is 'lazy' or not in control?

NEWSFLASH
Some dominants get their submissives to obey them and do things for them. Shock horror! Some get them to suggest tasks - some procur - some get them to work outside the home!

How shocking is that?</s>

Geeze if the boy had refused and came to whine about it here, he would be accused of bratting because he wasn't obeying. Go figure!

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/7/2008 9:07:33 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 29

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 10:50:24 AM

CruelDesires

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Joined: 11/20/2004
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Gah! I totally missed that it was a male s . Thats what I get for posting while half awake. *shrugs*

C-D

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Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 30

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 2:03:39 PM

Alexander48

Posts: 18
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline

I like what the.dark said (post # 29). I have no problem with asking a sub or slave to think of some interesting protocol ideas. To do that is obeying my wishes and serving my needs. I also have no problem with admitting that some of the best ideas I have ever got were from submissives or slaves. Just because I am the Dom or Master does not mean that I don't respect their intelligence and creativity, or the fact that they have had different experiences in the past that I can learn from.

One thing I would suggest is to use a leash at times. I always feel a powerful connection, with more options for control, when I am holding a leash that is firmly attached to her collar.

Alexander

(in reply to CruelDesires)

Post #: 31

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 2:28:19 PM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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Stroke, I had a moment to visit this website which proved to be quite illuminating:

http://www.geocities.com/mycroft1.geo/hos2.html

It seems that you're an adherent to Gor. And that implies that (at least in large part) your protocol is derived from a series of fictional novels. Now I don't have an issue with that... to each their own. But I think it's the height of hypocrisy for you to come here and berate Dominants for doing precisely what you have done (ie: obtained your protocol from a source other than yourself).

By your own standards, any shred of credibility you may have had on this topic has been rendered nonexistent. Perhaps you would be well served to visit the thread about honesty and it's relationship to informed consent.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 32

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:49:54 PM

Stroke

Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

I find that interesting. How does the fact that I tend to be hardlined have any affect whatsoever on honesty? What did I say that was dishonest? Rover, just because I was hardlined and not coddling you made it your personal adventure to attempt to pick apart everything I said, which was in fact very little. I don't mind that. This is an open board and it is all about opinions. People come and post asking for opinions. Opinions are given. The responses may not be what you wanted to see, but thats how life goes. We don't all see things the same. You did make a statement that I was somehow dishonest though and I would like to know what it is that I was dishonest about.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 33

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 8:58:54 PM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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You ridiculed the OP for having a Dominant that did not develop his own protocol. Yet as an adherent to Gor, your own protocol (in large part) eminates from fictional novels (ie: you did not develop it yourself).

You're intellectually dishonest, and should be ashamed for such a public display of hypocrisy. If you have a shred of decency and honesty, you'll apologize to the OP. Let's see if terms such as honor and truth have any real meaning in your life, or if they're just rhetoric that you read about.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 34

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 9:53:25 PM

Stroke

Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

The fact that I have a website tells you nothing about me other than that I have read some books. I happen to have many websites and I have read more than a few books. Am I an adherent to each of them? Do you know what each of them are about? Of course you don't. You know nothing about where my personal beliefs come from or anything about me. Also you claim hypocrisy but have not pointed out any words I spoke which demonstrated that. What did I lie about?

By the way, to the OP I do apologise regarding what seems to be a thread hijack. I would be happy to take this elsewhere.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 35

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 10:09:12 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

So what if they don't know what they're doing? We all started from precisely the same place. And it seems they understand enough that they have a mutual interest in protocol. Just not enough to know what options are out there to choose from.

To say that you won't help is akin to a restaurant saying they won't provide you a menu, cause you must be a restaurant novice and don't know what you want.

John

And that equates how? You act as tho the OP is a fucking moron. The point I was attempting to make most ppl got it! Use you own imagination try different things until you discover what suits your style. Ya know learn from your self discovery. Don't expect me to dream shit up for you.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 36

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 10:16:40 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

OK to get back on topic here ...

OP, as others have said, being on all 4s is going to be painful and likely as not, not in a good way, if done the whole weekend. Being gagged is going to be messy ... all that drool! And amongst anything else, it's going to get boring for both you AND your Master, which I doubt is the desired outcome.

I do believe everyone starts somewhere and I see no harm in coming here for ideas. I would lean as a Dominant to being the one asking for them, but I can also understand a Dominant asking a sub to do research. It may be that your Master will want to see the sparkle in your eyes when you mention some ideas and get a feeling for how you are likely to respond to different things.

Some ideas you could ponder:
* micromanagement - permission to do most things eg eat, drink, go to the toilet, change body position, leaving and entering the room, orgasm (naturally

), use appliances such as TV, computer, phone etc etc. Warning ... unwise to set up an expectation for this to continue at high intensity much past a weekend, it is very labour-intensive for the Dominant! However, He could choose one or two of these to continually permanently.
* a session (maybe an afternoon) of a roleplay such as puppy play (if you are really wanting to do the all 4s thing!), and take it as far as you want eg collar and leash, eating from a bowl, drinking from a bowl (that's tricky!), being taken outside for walks and to toilet (ONLY if you live in an appropriate area for that eg bush!), not speaking and communicating only by facial expressions, barks and whines etc ... and don't forget to be a guard dog and rush to the window or door and bark at everyone going by!
* more subtle daily life things could include - Master is always right isn't He ... so keep His food on the right side when you are cooking, serving or putting things back in the fridge, serving Him first, perhaps not eating until after He is finished (or being fed only from His plate by His hand), bowing (or curtseying for girls) as you serve Him or as you accept His instruction by saying "yes Master", kneeling to kiss His foot as a greeting or creating some other greeting ritual that suits Him, always allowing Him to order in restaurants (though if He's like my Master He'll make you do the ordering so He doesn't have to! and woe betide if i forget the details of what He wants!), etc etc.

Hope that helps!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 37

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/7/2008 10:24:27 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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Perhaps to the one in question it is more interesting to send his girl out to mine the minds of others, and see what she brings back. It's very much a learning experince too, to watch someone and see and learn what they gravitate to with out your influence.

It's not our ability or place to say who in what relationship is and isn't capable to lead. Our standards of fitness will not apply to any one and every one who's not even in a relationship with us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

It is the masters responsibility (yes they do have responsibilitys) to set the protocols. He trains you as he wishes you to behave. He teaches you what he wants you to learn. He enforces any transgressions. If he cannot set the protocols in your realtionship then I would have serious concerns over his ability to lead you.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 10/7/2008 10:34:19 PM >

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 38

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 3:34:59 AM

Stroke

Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Perhaps to the one in question it is more interesting to send his girl out to mine the minds of others, and see what she brings back. It's very much a learning experince too, to watch someone and see and learn what they gravitate to with out your influence.

It's not our ability or place to say who in what relationship is and isn't capable to lead. Our standards of fitness will not apply to any one and every one who's not even in a relationship with us.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

It is the masters responsibility (yes they do have responsibilitys) to set the protocols. He trains you as he wishes you to behave. He teaches you what he wants you to learn. He enforces any transgressions. If he cannot set the protocols in your realtionship then I would have serious concerns over his ability to lead you.

Of course it is. The OP asked a question. She sought others input. This was mine. If the question was not asked then my input would have never been given. If you don't want the answers then don't ask the questions. I am not changing my beliefs simply because someone disagreed with them. The key is that I don't own the girl. She has the options of taking advice given here or of rejecting it. It's her choice. Enjoy your day.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 39

RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 4:17:22 AM

Twicehappy2x

Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

It is the masters responsibility (yes they do have responsibilitys) to set the protocols. He trains you as he wishes you to behave. He teaches you what he wants you to learn. He enforces any transgressions. If he cannot set the protocols in your realtionship then I would have serious concerns over his ability to lead you.

There is the answer to your argument right there ;

"He trains you as he wishes you to behave. He teaches you what he wants you to learn."

Evidently his Master has decided to train him to suggest protocols for their relationship. His relationship, his call on how to run it. No matter what you think it should be, it really is up to the individuals involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke
I am sure that not all are willing to accept the responsibilities that go along with ownership. They would prefer to enjoy the "play" and have no decision making or sense of responsibility to worry about.

If a sub enjoys being with a man who does not take control and wants her to make the decisions regarding their relationship

I really fail to see how or why you think this guys Dom is not taking responsibility for making decisions in their relationship. Or for that matter how he is not taking control of him.

Quite obviously, as i noted above, he did make a decision, he told him to come up with some ideas. In his control of him he gave him an order, which he seems to be following.

From what i gathered from the OP's posts, his Dom will then decide which of these ideas to use. So apparently he does have control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke
My view comes from M/s, not from BDSM play. I see the relationship as a serious matter and not as a game.

Again, i have to ask, why are you calling their relationship play only?

For that matter what made you decide theirs is not an M/s relationship?

Because he has him looking for suggestions for protocol?

Perhaps it is an exercise that is will allow him to get inside his head, learn what he likes, what excites him. Maybe he just wants some ideas.

According to your apparent belief it is up to the dominant to come up with the ideas for protocol, or it is just play, not M/s.

Funny, i thought while it was up to him to set what protocols were used, i did not realize he had to invent them himself.

So if my Master just expects his house to be clean but does not tell me what cleaners to use or what day to clean on he is not taking on his proper responsibilities? If he lets me decide on those things he is not in control? Ours is not a serious M /s relationship?

Wow, i thought being the Master it was up to him to decide if he wanted to choose those things himself or choose to allow me to choose.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 10/8/2008 4:19:43 AM >

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Stroke)

Post #: 40

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