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RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 4:25:56 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings all,
 
While Master is Gorean, he doesn't really keep me in that much of a high protocol setting most of the times (at least not to my feeling). My two first and foremost standing orders are to be absolutely obedient and display exquisite beauty in everything I am and do. Other than that, few things are really fixed or set in stone, because what Master likes and wants might differ depending on what mood he is on. There are a few rules and rituals however that are in place all the time, unless otherwise instructed.
 
- I never eat before Master or Mistress
- I'm not allowed on the furniture ever, unless instructed. In public this means that I wait to sit until he makes clear that I can.
- If serving/bringing him something, I always serve from my knees, and afterwards wait to be dismissed.
- I don't ask permission to go to the bathroom/get something to drink or stuff like that when doing my day to day business and chores. But while in Master or Mistress presents I will ask to be dismissed to go do such things.
- Master's cup is never empty!
- If I'm going somewhere with him, I always heel. I walk about a step or two behind him to his left. When I am out with Mistress, I will also heel unless instructed differently.
- I ask permission to use any entertainment like the radio while cleaning, or the TV while ironing. When household work is done, I don't relax but instead go report to either Master or Mistress to find out what they want me to do next.
- This isn't really a rule that was ever set, but more something that naturally grew. Before they go to sleep, I massage Master and Mistress their feet in bed, before being dismissed to the kennel. This habit kinda grew because I love spending time with them on those last few moments of the day so I was looking at ways to make Master feel inclined to let me prolong my stay. Mission accomplished I would say.
 
I hope this is useful to you,
 
ishy

(in reply to Gorgias)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 4:30:59 AM   
Stroke


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline 		Is this Rover under another name? *grins*. In the interest of not beating a dead horse, see post 39.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 4:49:38 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Nope... not me under any other name. 
 
And you still have evaded the essential dishonesty of your post.  You ridiculed the OP for doing exactly what you have done.  You have derived protocol from someone other than yourself. 
 
It's plainly evident for anyone to see and read and I would suggest that you should be ashamed of yourself.  But anyone that's capable of turning their back on so many professed self-virtues over such a minor matter surely has no sense of shame.  Or at least a quantity that's insufficient to muster up an apology that is equally as public as your derision of the OP. 
 
Perhaps a little less reading of those ideals, and a little more practice.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 4:53:15 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

Is this Rover under another name? *grins*. In the interest of not beating a dead horse, see post 38.


Nope, not Rover, i'd look pretty funny with a mustache.
 
As you see from below, The guy, asked for ideas on protocols, per his instructions from his Master. I see absolutely nothing the Op wrote that even implied he wanted an opinion on the validity of his relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gorgias
I'm eager to have my submission be reflected very strongly in protcol.  So, what would you guys reccomend to express that? 

Oh, I suppose I forgot to mention that he's asked me to come up with some ideas for the weekend


But given your views on any male being submissive, i now understand your views on the validity of their relationship.
 
Your own statement on male submissives;

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

"Males who for whatever reason have of their own free will surrendered themselves over to a female their god given right as a male to rule their own lives. The idea of doing such a thing is so far removed from my own way of thinking that I have difficulty fathoming why a man would do this. You are supposed to be a man. You were put here on this planet to stand up and be a man, seen as a peer amongst other men of the world. A brotherhood above those of other organizations and fellowships. This is a mans world. No matter how twisted society grows in the idea of equality between the sexes (an idea supported by weak men who are afraid of having their balls busted by women … ie. such men are also known as liberals) the fact is that it is a mans world and god willing will remain as such.

These boys willingly kneel before women and surrender to them. They are slaves of their own free will happily tossing away any sense of manhood they may have once possessed. Instead of being in control of their own destiny they are now a boy as if they were a child, emasculated before the world to lick the boots of a female. This a perversion of the natural order in the deepest sense.

Some may wonder why I care about this. I care because when one falls then it reflects upon the male gender in general. As men it is our place to set the standards, not to be subjugated by them. In short it sets a poor example and displays weakness. Yes we are each our own person, but that does not stop profiling from occurring. We know it happens. If we did not have the natural inclination to stereotype then we would not hear so much about it being wrong to do. It happens.

My message to those males on their knee’s is to rise. Stand tall and strong. Take pride in who and what you are. The world is yours to conquer. Do not let a boot be where your world starts and ends."




_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 5:26:04 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

It is the masters responsibility (yes they do have responsibilitys) to set the protocols. He trains you as he wishes you to behave. He teaches you what he wants you to learn. He enforces any transgressions. If he cannot set the protocols in your realtionship then I would have serious concerns over his ability to lead you.


Err... I know. Why are you telling Me?. I haven't said anything to contradict that view.

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 7:43:29 AM   
Stroke


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline 		Rover, I have derived protocol from myself and how I see the world. If I read “2001 A Space Odyssey” would you automatically assume that I have derived protocol from that book? You are assuming much.

Twicehappy, like several others in this thread, I had no idea that the OP was a male until long after my original response on it. You also assumed much.

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 7:59:27 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Stroke - I would offer you a shovel, but there just wouldn't be one big enough.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 8:11:34 AM   
Stroke


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline 		No idea why you should offer me a shovel. Because some others don't agree with my thinking? *Laughs* I stand behind my words. I believe in what I believe in. Like what I say, or take offense as you please. Makes no difference to me. Calling me a liar or saying I mislead when I did nothing of the sort seems to be the dishonest way of arguing ones point. My original point of sending ones slave out to find protocols to use I believe is the hallmark of a lazy master which I am assuming he is. Since there is so much assuming already occurring on this thread I suppose that I can share in that and do some assuming of my own. I could be wrong in assuming that. All of the other assumers here have been.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 8:35:42 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I have to admit to deriving a certain sadistic pleasure from this...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

I stand behind my words. I believe in what I believe in.


Ok, here are some quotes of yours from your website.  Perhaps most damning of all is the following:
 
"The term “Old Gor” implies that it is different from Gor. In truth it is usually used to refer to hard headed Goreans who think that adhering to the books is a good thing. I am of that school of thought. But to me “Old Gor” is simply Gor, which is the Gor that exists in the books."
 
Clearly, you admit to deriving your protocol from the Gorean books.  And I have no issue with your life choice.  What I do have an issue with is berating others for doing the same thing you have done... incorporate protocols that appeal to you wherever they may be found.
 
But there are numerous other examples as well:

http://www.geocities.com/mycroft1.geo/gorinfo.html

On this page you lay out, in great detail, the various protocols you have adopted from those books.  Not protocols you developed yourself... protocols you read about, enjoyed, and decided to use as well. 

"If you are training as a Gorean then it is imperative that you have read the books."
 
And why is that, if you are not deriving your protocol from them?

"This is where John Normans “Natural Order” comes from. Due to history and our own basic instincts, the male is naturally equipped to be dominant in a relationship while the female is naturally inclined towards submission. Now let’s be clear about this. I am NOT talking about ants or bee’s where a queen rules the hill or the hive. We are not black widows or praying mantis where after mating the female kills and eats the male. We are talking about homo sapiens. In the world of humans, men are dominant, and they should be."

Here you admit to deriving your protocol of natural order from John Norman.
 
"You have not yet begun to learn what it can be, to be a slave," I said. She looked at me, frightened. I then snapped the collar about her throat. "Do you know, ultimately," I asked, "who will prove to be your one best trainer?" "No, Master," she said. "You, yourself," I said, "the girl, herself, eager to please, imaginative and intelligent, monitoring her own performances and feelings, striving lovingly to improve and refine them. You yourself will be largely responsible for making yourself the superb slave you will become." ~ Savages of Gor, Pg 210

Here you cite the passages from a book from which you derived your protocol on training. 

"The first Gor book I read was Captive of Gor back in 1995. One of the first things I noticed about Gor which I enjoyed very much was how a slave addresses the free. All free are addressed as master or mistress. It matters not if the person being addressed is the girls actual owner. It is a mark of respect which the enslaved girl must display. She does not have the right to decide who she will and will not address in this manner. She is not allowed to display pride by slighting a free person and any attempt to do so will be met with swift and sure discipline.

Slave girls, on Gor, address all free men as master, though, of course, only one such would be her true master. ~ Nomads of Gor - Page 60

Any slave girl, incidentally, addresses any free man as Master, any free woman as Mistress, though only one, of course, at a given time, is likely to be her true Master or Mistress. ~ Slave Girl of Gor - Page 77

Slave girls must address all free men as "Master." Commonly, however, the expression "my Master," when it is used, is reserved for the actual master of the girl, he who is her literal master, he who literally owns her. ~ Dancer of Gor - Page 421

A Gorean slave girl in the presence of a free man or woman always kneels, unless excused from doing so. I had even learned to kneel when addressed by the guards and, of course, always, when approached by Targo, my master. A Gorean slave, incidentally, always addresses free men as "Master," and all free women as "Mistress." ~ Captive of Gor - Page 73"

Here you cite the various passages from which you derived your protocol on slaves addressing free men and women.
 
"When I started in online Gor a decade ago there were certain accepted norms. I cannot say that I disagreed with any of them at that time. Up until then I had only read one Gor book (Captive of Gor), so had little to base my judgements on other than what I saw in the chat rooms. Since that time I have read all of the books (except for Witness) and had been an owner of a prominant room for a number of years. So, of course armed with knowledge and experience my idea's on many things have changed since first entering Gor."
 
Here is your admission that your knowledge of your lifestyle is derived from someone other than yourself... books about Gor.
 
Seriously, I could go on ad nauseum.  And perhaps I will if you persist.  You asked to be judged by your own words, and that's just what I think you deserve.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 9:00:07 AM   
ElectraGlide


Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		My slave is very well experienced on Protocol's before I met her. We discussed protocol's at great length in the beginning. She use's alot of traditional protocol's that I liked, and she is comfortable with. I wanted some protocol's added that I liked. I value her input, if it would harm, humiliate or just be too tacky, I will not have her do it. I see alot of showboat protocol's on the scene, I just would not have her do. I saw a little bashing on this post about letting the slave set some protocol's. I have no problem with that, , my slave serves me more then just physically, she serves me mentally, which makes live easier, that is what it is all about. We add new protocols from time to time, that makes things more efficent.

_____________________________

www.starhillcreations.com

(in reply to CruelDesires)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 9:00:15 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		One of my favorite protocals is to taste the first chocolate out of the box.. and then the 2nd to be sure.. and well.. each shape so that I can tell which ones he might enjoy more.  I also enjoy the one where he hands me a credit card and tells me, go out and find yourself some lingerie to please me.
<g> If you have to pick and choose.. those would be mine.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: UmbraDomina

wow........... when did the slave's start getting to pick their own protacals, and when did dominants get so frikken lazy they could not think for themselves?

(in reply to UmbraDomina)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 9:29:35 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Stroke - I would offer you a shovel, but there just wouldn't be one big enough.

 
Just put your feet up, it is getting deep!

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 9:38:56 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hunni, why not just stop the assuming and instead, be productive?  Positive?
Tell me, what is the point of trying to be mean and derogatory about someone who a)you do not know and b)has not posted here?  Does it make you feel big and grown up?  Feel like a man?  Because it surely does not reflect it.
If you have nothing constructive to offer to the thread, why instead be intentionally nasty about someone who you do not know and also, have not even made the slightest effort to even realise that the poster is male?  Now, if you intend to assist posting, or a poster, then surely taking the time to at least find out basics shows knowledge, wisdom and consistance.
 
I would understand if you had some facts or information to back up your presumptions.  But you have nothing.
However, people have pointed out that your words have contradicted your - well - words.
 
And plase don't come back with  - well what is sauce for the goose .blahblahblah. - two wrongs make a right then?  Can you not rise above that?

Hence the shovel.  Based on facts presented.  Not assumption.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 9:52:08 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I have to admit to deriving a certain sadistic pleasure from this...


OK, grins, i have to admit so am i. You are a bad influence Rover.
 
I've also went and read his pages and his profile. I might be wrong but i get the distinct impression all or most of his experience is online, mainly in Gorean chat rooms. Maybe that is why he has such strong feelings on the subject. Some one with little r/l r/t experience usually does not have much of a clue what it takes to be a Dom in the flesh.
 
I especially loved his comment "Gor is real".
 
Honestly, i have friends who are Gorean, i have a great deal of respect for those who can and do follow the Gorean philosophy even if i have no wish to be a part of it. Some of the guys are very honorable and likable fellows. 
 
While Those who follow Gors ways are real, while their feelings and practices are real; Gor is not. It is a fictional place, with fictional people.
 
 

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 10:01:54 AM   
Stroke


Posts: 109
Joined: 8/17/2007
Status: offline 		Rover, Some of those words are mine. The great majority are taken from the books. The fact that my own beliefs are similar to the authors ideas does NOT mean that I derive my beliefs from the author, but merely that I happen to agree with his way of thinking. Many Gorean idea's are put forth on some of those pages because it is after all, a Gorean page.

Apparently it is written in the bylaws whereby anyone responding to a post which asks a question of the general public must be done in a way that Rover and a few others here approve of. Sorry but I missed that rule. If you did not like my wording then I cannot help that and I have no desire to do so. My final words on this thread are that while several of you attempted to tear me down here for my way of thinking and expressing myself, I have received over 20 messages from people not wishing to post (probably from fear of being berated) who agreed with my words. Enough said on this thread. I'll see you on the next one.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 10:20:36 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

Is this Rover under another name? *grins*. In the interest of not beating a dead horse, see post 38.



Nope, not Rover, i'd look pretty funny with a mustache.


Not to mention how funny looking he'd be with those massive tits!!!
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Twicehappy2x)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 10:21:18 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke
The fact that my own beliefs are similar to the authors ideas does NOT mean that I derive my beliefs from the author, but merely that I happen to agree with his way of thinking. Many Gorean idea's are put forth on some of those pages because it is after all, a Gorean page.


So that said - is it not viable to get another person to find out about and suggest *insert whatever here* - on this occasion protocols - and then use the ones that meld with ones own philosophy and ideas?  Please explain the difference between reading a book of another persons ideas and using them because they meld with ones own and getting ideas from another person and using them because they meld with ones own ideas?

quote:

Apparently it is written in the bylaws whereby anyone responding to a post which asks a question of the general public must be done in a way that Rover and a few others here approve of. Sorry but I missed that rule. If you did not like my wording then I cannot help that and I have no desire to do so. My final words on this thread are that while several of you attempted to tear me down here for my way of thinking and expressing myself, I have received over 20 messages from people not wishing to post (probably from fear of being berated) who agreed with my words. Enough said on this thread. I'll see you on the next one.


I am trying to be polite.  But you are making it extremely difficult. I have debated you and asked you questions which you have not responded to.  You come in here, insult someone - BERATE them intentionally - and then complain (by assumption) that others might feel berated so, might be afraid to support you openly(thats so old btw and used numerou times - jfyi).
 
I am totally cool if you don't have the ability or desire to answer the questions I asked you.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 10:49:55 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stroke

Rover, Some of those words are mine.  The great majority are taken from the books. 


Yeah, that was kind of the point.  You were using those quotes to demonstrate where you got your protocols.  Surely that point could not have been lost on you.

quote:


The fact that my own beliefs are similar to the authors ideas does NOT mean that I derive my beliefs from the author, but merely that I happen to agree with his way of thinking.


Wow, you should sue John Norman for plagiarism.  He stole your ideas!!  Years before you had them!!  (He is so crafty, that John Norman)

quote:


Many Gorean idea's are put forth on some of those pages because it is after all, a Gorean page.


And how much of Gor is attributable to you?  Are you Al Gore?  Thanks for the internet.

quote:


Apparently it is written in the bylaws whereby anyone responding to a post which asks a question of the general public must be done in a way that Rover and a few others here approve of. Sorry but I missed that rule.


Actually, the purpose of these forums is to allow folks to make public posts that others can read and comment upon.  I'm just holding up my end of the bargain.  If you want to be able to make public statements without reply, rent a billboard.

quote:


If you did not like my wording then I cannot help that and I have no desire to do so. My final words on this thread are that while several of you attempted to tear me down here for my way of thinking and expressing myself, I have received over 20 messages from people not wishing to post (probably from fear of being berated) who agreed with my words. Enough said on this thread. I'll see you on the next one.


You have no one to blame but yourself.  How's the view from your petard?
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Stroke)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 3:35:20 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I frankly don't think your master's idea of getting suggestions is a very good one.

Protocols have zero value outside of the people who use them and thus in my very, very strong opinion should only be designed and used by those people. Having protocols merely for the "fun" or to have them misses the entire point of them which is to help support and maintain your Ds dynamic.

You need nothing more and nothing less than that. More will become a burden and frankly fall to the wayside. Less will not offer enough support.

You two will need to experiment and see what works for you.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Gorgias)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Protocol ideas! - 10/8/2008 3:57:55 PM   
LadyLupineNYC


Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		"The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in"...But apparently only so long as it conforms to your vision of what love is and should be.  I would much rather have my boy, with his ‘infinitude heart’ bowed at my feet while we look towards a future together, in love, than your cold, narrow, and diminished world.  He is far more a ‘man’ than you will ever be, strong and more resolved, battle-field tested and not afraid of his submission or of an open heart.  He faces the world head on, confident, and knowing that he is loved, supported, and most of all, his own person.

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 60
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