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Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/6/2008 7:36:45 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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The last view days have seen a rehash of Ayers & Wright (Rez is sure to come up again as well), something we went through in the dem primary. That tactic didn't help Clinton clinch and Obama went on to secure the nomination. Is it going to work this time around in the General Election and give us 4 more years of a pub WH or will it backfire and secure Obama a new residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

Negative ads have often worked in the past but is the public getting tired of them?

What say you, the voter?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

Post #: 1

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/6/2008 7:46:24 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. We have several infamous examples of it working throughout American political history. From the nuclear mushroom cloud ad against Goldwater to Willy Horton ads against Dukakis. Negative campaigning can work. We shall see. IMO, it's a valid tactic.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 2

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/6/2008 7:47:20 PM

TabrisMaceth

Posts: 190
Joined: 9/23/2008
From: The Ghost Matrix
Status: offline

Call me a pessimist, but my answer is a resounding yes! People, in my ever-so-humble opinion, are idiots. They don't want a competent leader, they don't give a fuck about issues or facts. They want one of "their kind". They want someone who looks out for them and only them.
I dare ya to prove me wrong, voters.

-Tabris

_____________________________

I don't like hand baskets. Everything's always going to Hell in them.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 3

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/6/2008 7:50:47 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Here's the thing.

People bitch about the government, about ethics and values etc.---but love to hear manipulated bullshit, however riduculous (the Muskie Letter comes to mind), and are willing to tolerate it as part of the process.

So we elect people we already know will stoop to anything for power.

Maybe we should rethink that.

(in reply to TabrisMaceth)

Post #: 4

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/6/2008 8:22:26 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TabrisMaceth

Call me a pessimist, but my answer is a resounding yes! People, in my ever-so-humble opinion, are idiots. They don't want a competent leader, they don't give a fuck about issues or facts. They want one of "their kind". They want someone who looks out for them and only them.
I dare ya to prove me wrong, voters.

-Tabris

I call it being a realist.

No it should not matter or help to win an election but it does. As fast as McBush threw them at Obama he threw it right back.

(in reply to TabrisMaceth)

Post #: 5

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 1:37:46 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

The last view days have seen a rehash of Ayers & Wright (Rez is sure to come up again as well), something we went through in the dem primary. That tactic didn't help Clinton clinch and Obama went on to secure the nomination. Is it going to work this time around in the General Election and give us 4 more years of a pub WH or will it backfire and secure Obama a new residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

Negative ads have often worked in the past but is the public getting tired of them?

What say you, the voter?

I agree with you on "negative ads" but there is a difference between making up stories and attacking someone personally with no substance and "informative ads" that are based on documented truths. As far as "negative" propagand, just listen to CNN and MSNBC, my favorite being Keith Ubarmann who foams at the mouth, clenches his jaw and throws paper at the camera as he beats up on Sarah Palin. Someone please get the guy some meds, not for him as much as he might hurt someone in the studio one day when he goes completly hysterical as the polls close tight again over the nex few weeks in Pennsylvania, Virginia and possibly even Michigan....that later would do it for sure...

Obama achieved most of the momentum that defeated Hillary in primary votes by people who were charmed by his unquestionable charisma and great script writing and delivery. Eat your heart out Robert Redford, you coulda been President!
Hillary found her mojo in the final month of the democrat primary, and if the democrat party did not have ludicrous rules on portion control in the States and "super delegates" SHE would be at the top of the ticket and McCain would be totally out of it. Heck, even a long time Hillary hater like me actually came to appreciate the grit and passion she showed in those final weeks and members of my own family were switching to her, and, frankly, I'm not a total lover of McCain and was going to really have to make a tough call in November.

On the other hand, Obama was fading in those final days as more background on this radical leftist became public, since almost a unanimous percentage of the voters in the early months of the democrat primary did not know about his close association with the terrorist Bill Ayers and his wife, did not know about Sol Olinsky being his mentor, did not know about his representation as attorney for ACORN, did not know about his dismissal of the U.S. military before anti-war groups, and his sweet deal with Tony Rezko, the convicted felon. There are more nut cases on his christmas card mailing list of friends that will emerge or re-emerge in discussion over the next few weeks.
There is nothing in this man's short elected public service to remotely suggest that he has the ability to actually perform and execute the intensive management of the Executive that the next President will have to take on his shoulders, unless you want to count Barack's training of ACORN staff early in his life as an executive skill set. Certainly his "community organizing abilities" have been key in the building of a very active, vocal, "full of sound and fury" grass roots organization...and for that he deserves credit. The problem is Bruce Springsteen can't be at every polling place to draw in the immature younger voter. Been there, done that in my youth too...liberal parties and rallies were great places to meet the opposite sex...fantastic speed dating. and no campus police that might raid the dorm or frat house.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 6

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 1:58:22 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

Prey on the fears and anxieties of the day and it will activate people..........it's tried and tested.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 7

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 2:02:21 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

but love to hear manipulated bullshit.............and are willing to tolerate it as part of the process.

A decent enough negotiator never reveals the objective of his/her negotiation. It follows thus there is no toleration because people do not realise they are being manipulated, nor the ends of government.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 8

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 2:16:07 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

Not on my planet, Bita. Moose and Squirelly's "Pinocchio Politics" turn me completely off.
http://www.pinocchiopolitics.org/long_list.htm

Corysub and his buddies can put whatever bullshit spin they want on the lies McCain and Palin try to spread. Me, I won't listen to anything that comes out of the DNC. Instead, I'll listen to verified sources like FactCheck and Snopes. If anything the Rovian Goebbels-propagandists say is true, it should be verifiable by one of those sources.

The fact of the matter is: Bush and his neocon buds have had nearly eight years to show that their economic theories work in the real world. They have failed. Completely. Now the Repubs want me to vote for someone who seems to be proud that he doesn't understand a thing about Economics? So he'll continue the same stupid policies that the Busheviks have pushed? God, what a sick fucking joke. Unfortunately, the Repubs constituents REALLY ARE that stupid. They REALLY ARE moronic rednecks who have embraced guns and biblical literalism. Jehovah's Witnesses with Machine Guns.

Bill Maher is right. There are two Americas. There is the America that wants to be a progressive, European-style Democracy with multiple parties, proportional representation, an educated populace, social and economic mobility, and economic opportunity. And then there is the redneck Reader's Digest America where Christianist Dominionist Fundie wackos want their church Deacons to run the country, getting rid of the Constitution, banning "heathen" religions, prohibiting Womens' right to control their bodies, making being Gay a crime once again, marching around waving flags and threatening war against any country who dares believe differently, and continuing racism by perpetuating the myth of race.

I know where I stand, and it's not with the hateful racist bastards in the republican party.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 9

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 2:56:45 AM

mefisto69

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Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline

..... there are already many warnings out on Mcwacko's negativity. the most telling is the danger of letting palin spout off - no one can take her seriously and she' causing voters to stop and say WTF already. quite possible that this will crush the rethuglican campaign and cause them to loose Many seats in both houses.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 10

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 3:39:56 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

So glad Corysub brought up Bill ayers, because the facts are that McCain has accepted money from a long-time associate of Bill Ayers!!!!!

ACCEPTING CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ASSOCIATES OF KNOWN TERRORISTS?
The Ayers-Weber-McCain connection. Truth? Guilt by Association? We report. YOU Decide!
Arnold R. "Arnie" Weber is a Chicago Annenberg Board Member and Chicago "insider". He was a part of the Nixon White House. Arnie Weber has held other Washington "insider" jobs too. He is a LONGTIME REPUBLICAN DONOR. But get this: Arnie Weber was a BOARD MEMBER of the infamous **CHICAGO ANNNENBERG CHALLENGE** organization, which was founded by known "TERRORIST" Bill Ayers!
Sarah Palin was using "guilt by association". This, however, is a two way street but Gov. Palin may not understand this.
NEW INFORMATION SHOWS THAT JOHN MCCAIN HAS ACCEPTED "TAINTED" CAMPAIGN MONEY FROM ARNIE WEBER, AN ASSOCIATE OF BILL AYERS.
Arnie Weber has given the maximum legal amount of $1,500 to the McCain campaign in 2008. He probably would have given more if allowed by law. In 2008, Arnie Weber made two separate donations of $1,000 and $500 to McCain’s presidential campaign run by EX-LOBBYIST AND WASHINGTON INSIDER RICK DAVIS.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/keating_inquiry_appears_differ.html

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to mefisto69)

Post #: 11

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 3:40:48 AM

FangsNfeet

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Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

Adds period really don't mean a damn thing anymore. We already have to many idiots who decided to go straight ticket regardless if they ever read an artical or listen to a single speech given by someone running for political position.

Instead of looking for a name to vote for, most just check the box based on the persons party.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 12

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:00:34 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Instead of looking for a name to vote for, most just check the box based on the persons party.

Surely both are equally relevant......the party will tell you his underlying values.......the person will tell you whether or not he's a leader.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 10/7/2008 4:03:02 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 13

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:26:56 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Adds period really don't mean a damn thing anymore. We already have to many idiots who decided to go straight ticket regardless if they ever read an artical or listen to a single speech given by someone running for political position.

Instead of looking for a name to vote for, most just check the box based on the persons party.

This is the situation here too as I see it FnF - too many people who vote for a party for the most bizarre reasons (such as "my dad always voted for them") without the first idea of whats in their manifesto, with the result that we have "safe seats" where a turd would win the election for a seat in Parliament if it were painted the relevant colour (and frequently does, some would say), and sudden frenzied alarm when they find the new government they voted for wants to do something they disagree with - like ID cards for instance here in the UK - when it was there for them to read from the off.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 14

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:30:15 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

The negative ads make me nauseous. If you can't look good on your own merit and have to slam your opponent in order to to be better than them.....I don't want to hear what you have to say.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 15

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:39:51 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

The negative ads make me nauseous. If you can't look good on your own merit and have to slam your opponent in order to to be better than them.....I don't want to hear what you have to say.

That's politics......"can you provide details on your education initiative, Prime Minister"........"well, in 1835 the Conservative Party fucked everything up...."

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 16

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:45:10 AM

MmeGigs

Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Negative campaigning can work. We shall see. IMO, it's a valid tactic.

It's definitely a tactic and it often does work, but I don't know that I consider it valid. Once the election's over, we're left with a bunch of angry, suspicious people who have no interest in dialog or compromise. It can't help but damage the working relationships of our elected officials, and we need these people to be able to work together.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 17

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 4:55:29 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

There are those that have made the personal attack ad their specialty. Some have worked but the public seems to be tired of the constant negativity.
McCain seems to have learned much from Bush's buddy Rove ant Obama learned what not to do from Dukakis and Kerry. McCain seems desperate
and Obama seems to be able to answer McCain and Palin's ads with little trouble.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 18

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 5:38:51 AM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

The last view days have seen a rehash of Ayers & Wright (Rez is sure to come up again as well), something we went through in the dem primary. That tactic didn't help Clinton clinch and Obama went on to secure the nomination. Is it going to work this time around in the General Election and give us 4 more years of a pub WH or will it backfire and secure Obama a new residence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

Negative ads have often worked in the past but is the public getting tired of them?

What say you, the voter?

I think most people can see past them for what they are... the last attempt to survive by a dying regime.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 19

RE: Will neg ads help McCain secure WH? - 10/7/2008 6:39:34 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

I'm not worried about it. Obama's been dealing with this whisper campaign shit for over 20 months now, (and indeed, all his life) and it hasn't stopped him yet. He's had practice in dealing with it, and has done so very well. I think, like so many other McCain desperation moves, this one is going to blow upin his face... again.

If the GOP wants to paint itself as the party of ignorance, and racisim (again) so be it.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 20

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