Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter?

Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (Full Version)

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KnightofMists -> Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:17:37 AM)
Often we see in various venues individual share their ideas on if being Dominant, Submissive etc. etc.. etc is nature or nuture cause. Now this OP is NOT interested in getting into such a debate. This OP is more interested.... Does the Debate even matter? What affect if any does it being a nature or nuture cause will have on your daily life. Are you going to make different choices if the answer is one way or the other. I am asking that you put down you personal bais on the debate... and consider if it's Nature... how would it affect you differently if at all... If it's nuture... How would that affect you differently if at all? Does the debate matter?

RCdc -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:32:08 AM)
The debate matters, the reasons one is an orientation doesn't. the.dark.

leadership527 -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:39:18 AM)
Agreed D&D. The debate is important because it speaks to how newcomers may or may not learn anything. What got me to where I am personally is only really of interest to myself and my wife in terms of understanding each other and ourselves.

DesFIP -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:39:37 AM)
The discussion matters because some of us are introspective, analytical types who prefer to approach things by trying to figure them out. But no, the result doesn't change anything for me. However I can see it changing things for someone else. If this hypothetical someone realized this was the result of their upbringing, and a result in particular of a bad upbringing, then they might be impelled to get therapy to deal with their feelings about said upbringing. And thus, might later change their way of acting in life, during which change, the need for them to approach their life from a dominant or submissive stance might disappear, and they might not need such a relationship anymore. It is not uncommon for people to realize they have always been pushed to be independent, to be in charge of their own life. Such people, if drawn to kink, start out on the uppercase side of the slash. After separating their own sense of self from that imposed on them, they switch to the other side of the slash or indeed decide to switch, period. So yeah, I can see it mattering to some.

IrishMist -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:51:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark The debate matters, the reasons one is an orientation doesn't. the.dark. I have to agree with this. The debate itself does matter; the reasons for the orientation do not.

yourMissTress -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 10:58:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark The debate matters, the reasons one is an orientation doesn't. the.dark. I think I agree with this statement. I will spend the rest of my afternoon pondering why and come back tonight.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 11:08:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Often we see in various venues individual share their ideas on if being Dominant, Submissive etc. etc.. etc is nature or nuture cause. Now this OP is NOT interested in getting into such a debate. This OP is more interested.... Does the Debate even matter? What affect if any does it being a nature or nuture cause will have on your daily life. Are you going to make different choices if the answer is one way or the other. I am asking that you put down you personal bais on the debate... and consider if it's Nature... how would it affect you differently if at all... If it's nuture... How would that affect you differently if at all? Does the debate matter? Now following along with the spirit of your question, IF part of my make-up is due to the environment (nurture), it doesn’t matter in the sense of which is more important, my inherent nature or what I’ve been exposed to. Which contributes more to the area of a rectangle, its length or width? (damn, sounds like I’m describing a penis)

FRSguy -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 11:09:32 AM)
Sure it's important... we all love the blame game... so who gets the blame... Genetics -- Not my fault I was born this way. or Nurture --- I had a bad mommy that corupted me..lol

chamberqueen -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 12:01:43 PM)
I recently met with a Domme and her sub along with my Master. The Domme proudly announced, "I know I was born to be a Domme. I give orders so well." Remember cartoons with icicles freezing in the air between two points? My eyes to her, used to be Domme to a current one. I kept a poker face, and gently said, "of course it takes a lot more to being a Domme than giving orders". She giggled it away. Whether someone feels they were "born" to it or developed it, the important part to me is whether they handle themselves responsibly. I don't think it matters nearly as much as to where it came from as to whether they can look for the overall fulfillment of each party involved. I've seen too many "Doms" that confuse being domineering with domination. (Not to say that subs can't be greedy, but this thread is about Doms.) I have been tasked with training a novice Dom who feels he was born to be a Dom simply by means of his gender. After months of working with him I did some service oriented duties for him the other day and he wrote to thank me, then asked me if thanks fit into the lifestyle. I wanted to pull out my hair - we've gone over this many times. Yes, besides giving orders it is perfectly appropriate to show thanks when a job is well done. Too many that feel they were "born" to it feel no need to grow. I won't debate whether genetics or conditioning is more powerful, but I will strongly say that just saying that you feel that you were born to it can be a cop out - a way to try to impress someone that you obviously know what you are doing when you may not have a clue.

agirl -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 1:41:03 PM)
Hi KnightofMists, I think the debate matters IF it matters to YOU...The majority of people I know have had, at least, a bit of self-digging and done the debate thing once or twice. Personally........ I have no idea if my choices are directed by either nature or nurture. I think the likelihood is that anything and everything I've come up against has influenced them. For myself, I don't think it matters what/how/who or why; I AM in this place, this IS what I choose now and I can do things differently if I want to. I am guessing that going on experience, if this model of relationship didn't suit me , I'd be unhappier a lot more of the time. Basically, I don't think knowing WHY would make any difference at all, unless it was a source of unhappiness and disatisfaction. Regards, agirl

MadRabbit -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:03:59 PM)
Depends on the context. Politically? God, yes it does. Understanding how human sexuality is formed and how changeable or unchangeable it is is incredibly important, particularly here in the U.S, because the primary argument social conservatives use to deny acceptance and rights to alternative sexualities is "choice". I get in this argument at least once a week with a new person in South Carolina when politics comes up and it always comes down to "you can choose to be who you are" and "deviant sexual behaviors can be unlearned."

Lashra -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:11:09 PM)
It doesn't matter, all that matters is that a person is true to THEIR own nature. The only people who the debate matters to to are the close minded individuals who believe that their way is the ONLY way. I am Dominant and I am female, some have a problem with that. Do I care? Nope not one iota. As Popeye used to say "I am what I am" ~Lashra

gypsygrl -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:12:55 PM)
Historically, when a question of human bahavior is debated in terms of nature vs. nurture, there have been specific policy orientations associated with each answer. If something is considered, based on the available evidence, to be natural, generally people are more accepting of the phenomena and less likely to try to interfere with it. If something is considered to be the product of nuture its given way to an emphasis on parenting styles as a way of modifying, altering, eliminating or encouraging the behavior. In years past, like the 19th century, social problems we currently understand to be substantially influenced by culture/nuture were taken to be biologically determined; things like crime, developmental disability and impoverishment. The most common policy responses involved incarceration/institutionalization and containment and attempts to develop positive policies were in the minority until the middle of the 20th century when thinking about these matters changed. Because our thinking on these matters have changed in favor of nurture, we now tend to favor educational solutions (I'm not talking about indivuals, but social policy) Ok, so yeah, as a cultural historian, I have an interest in nurture/nature debates and feel they matter. :) But when it comes down to understanding my own way of being in the world, my adult sexuality has already been formed--whether its been formed by nature or nurture is irrelevant to my sexual practice. The same goes for my personality: its largely a done deal regardless of how it got that way.

Sexycelticlady -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:19:01 PM)
Actually, I would say the debate is irrelevent. It is intellectually interesting to dicuss and examine how we have come to be the person we are now but the crucial thing is how to progress onwards from this point. We can learn how the past influences our decisions and our path in life, or how our nature makes us tend towards certain choices. Awareness of these factors provides us with a broader spectrum of self knowledge and helps to prevent us making repetitive cycles of behaviour, but if we get caught up in that speculation for too long we will never move beyond this, we can never grow towards our potential. Who we are now, no matter how we reached this point, influences any choice made from now on. The past is simply that, the past. Our nature is what it is. First, accept who you are in the present and then you can open your mind to the possibilities of who you can become.

Rover -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:22:12 PM)
The nature vs. nurture debate matters to BDSM in the same way it mattered to homosexuality. If it's not nature, then it's viewed as an aberrant choice and the folks who judge that choice to be unhealthy are validated in their desires to regulate and ban it (in the same way they can regulate and ban smoking because it's not good for you). But if that choice is not present, efforts to regulate or ban it are not viewed as valid. Ask the gay community what the medical discoveries have done on their behalf. Although I recognize that we all stand to benefit from recognizing WIITWD as the product of nature (not entirely... just as there is no single gay gene... but in large part), I can say with intellectual honesty that I believe it to be factual. And the very few medical studies on the topic seem to support that assertion (though not conclusively). John

littlewonder -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:28:31 PM)
Yes it matters so that we may take responsibility in the form it should be taken. If we say it's because we were born that way then the way we approach what we do will be different. If it's because it's due to our environment we can look at the whys of what we do and the reasons behind them. If we are doing what we do from a negative impact then we may want to look deeper into it and how it is affecting our life. Are we doing what we do because it's an escape from our reality? Is it an addiction? Is it a way to lay responsibility on someone else or to run away from our problems? Or is it because we truly feel this is how we are and always have been or from some positive outlook on our relationship with another or ourselves? For me personally...it matters very much as to which one it is.

KnightofMists -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:43:28 PM)
Rabbit, Gypsy, Rover... Thank you for putting out there the idea of why it would matter on a social/macro-level. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the dominant side of the debate can have significant impact on social/political policies, attitudes and norms which will trickle down to the micro level affect you and I. I agree that in the context of the social agenda this debate can very much matter and as Rover pointed out.. a similiar debate with regards to the gay community and society at large has had some significant impact. However, What about the debate within our own circle so to speak? Is there reasons within the circle that are just as valid for us that have nothing to do outside our little subculture of society?

NihilusZero -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:44:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I get in this argument at least once a week with a new person in South Carolina when politics comes up and it always comes down to "you can choose to be who you are" and "deviant sexual behaviors can be unlearned." Yeah. Then proceed to ask them what their favorite food is. Upon response, tell them they should now forsake ever consuming it again. When asked why, reply: "You can choose to eat what you eat. You can unlearn to like it."

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:44:46 PM)
I think it does. Knowing how the parts work can add insight into how the whole works. But, we have to keep in mind, the sum of the parts aren't always all there is to the whole. There are qualities that come into play due to unexpected interactions of the parts. In the end, a reductionist view of a whole system is simply a tool. It often doesn't explain the whole. So, it adds to our understanding of a person to know about their natural leanings and their background, but these are not the only defining characteristics of the individual. I think that made sense. Master Fire

KnightofMists -> RE: Nature Vrs Nuture... Does it Matter? (10/9/2008 2:46:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder If we say it's because we were born that way then the way we approach what we do will be different. How will be different? why would it be different? quote: If it's because it's due to our environment we can look at the whys of what we do and the reasons behind them. If we are doing what we do from a negative impact then we may want to look deeper into it and how it is affecting our life. Even if something come from a natural stand point, don't you think we would still consider how it's affecting our life?

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