Ivory Towers .... and other false gods

Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (Full Version)

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softness -> Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 11:53:18 AM)
My profile changes have apparently got back to the Sub's Union and the High Dom Council ... my Twueness card has been recalled ... bastards. I say in my new profile that I dont think of myself as submissive anymore ... and yet I am still listing as a slave ... that I am looking for a Top but not necessarily a Dominant. I'm saying that I am way to self driven, independent and proud to every really accept that someone else is better at being the boss of me, than me. This it would seem ... is upsetting people ... or at least the Poll as indicated by my overflowing inbox of moral outrage would indicate. So far I am postively identified by the Resident Spotters as - a fake, a wannabe, a man, a brat, a SAM, a newbie, a man hating lesbian, damaged, derrange, one person says I want my daddy, someone else says something about rice in my shoes, and at least 14 people wonder if i would like a quick fuck (I messages them back first - come on guys .. a fuck is a fuck) yay for internet pick up sites! A lot of time is spent posturing on web boards ( I should know, I have done it often enough) about the perfection and wonder of BDSM, about the one true way, How M/s or D/s is something somehow sublime and spiritual, that it is better than vanilla and somehow our way of being is purer and greater than those poor mere mortal vanillas. So much so that when someone actually just states the truth, says what they actually want .... that honesty is attacked from those above in their Ivory towers. I will hold my hand up and admit to being fairly snotty towards some dynamics .. have certainly pissed in some people's cheerios on here over the years .. I was usually pissing on the person(s) involved rather than the ideal dynamic they shared ... (I usually get that bit wrong and hate the sinner rather than the sin - oops) Any how .. to my point about Ivory towers ... Another thread is talking about knowing yourself ... and linking it to Mastery. Well I want to know this .. how many people know themselves .. and are actually HONEST about themselves .,.. can step down out of Ivory Towers, BDSMville, cut the crap and speak honestly about themselves. Here is me having a go. Being in borderline abusive relationships (personal/sexual/professional) gets my juices flowing - as long as I have an escape route and a safety net. I am arrogant enough to know that I will never find anyone who is the boss of me, better than I am. I will never be made to do something I do not wish to do ... It might look that way, but it will never actually happen. I like being a heavy player because people look at me and flinch .. that turns me on. If I was a thin, beautiful woman who could walk into any bar and get the attention I want ... I would be as vanilla as the ay is long. I could go on ... but it would spoil my profile. So anyway, try stepping out of the Ivory Tower and trying some real brutal honesty

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 11:58:16 AM)
I would, but, well... I already have. Also: quote: If I was a thin, beautiful woman who could walk into any bar and get the attention I want ... I would be as vanilla as the ay is long. this. Seconded with as much force as the Universe will provide me.

leadership527 -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:02:29 PM)
Well, I would've happily posted a long laundry list of my failings as an individual, but at 10:54pm last night I achieved perfection. I'm expecting to ascend to a higher state of being sometime this afternoon where my M/s relationship will transform into a twue B/s relationship. The rest of you losers need to quit slacking and get with the program.

CruelDesires -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:04:26 PM)
Edite> FR. Some of the ones who are so high up in their lofty white towers.. fall pretty hard when the foundations are kicked out from under them. Brings them down to earth with a sudden brutality that they never expect. Been there and done that. I have the t-shirt to prove it. C-D

gypsygrl -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:10:58 PM)
I suck at life. I dunno if thats gonna come as news to anyone who knows me, but, ya know, its true. shrugs

NihilusZero -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:14:15 PM)
"Falcor! The Ivory Tower!" ...wait. Is this the right thread?

CreativeDominant -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:30:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness My profile changes have apparently got back to the Sub's Union and the High Dom Council ... my Twueness card has been recalled ... bastards. I say in my new profile that I dont think of myself as submissive anymore ... and yet I am still listing as a slave ... that I am looking for a Top but not necessarily a Dominant. Then why not change your profile to reflect your newfound honesty/assessment of yourself and note that you are now a bottom rather than a slave? quote: I'm saying that I am way to self driven, independent and proud to every really accept that someone else is better at being the boss of me, than me. My first submissive was pretty self-driven. Ran the office for three dentists and ran things at home. She is now a femdominant who became one with my help. She is still submissive towards me when she deals with me and still seeks out guidance, though we are no longer in an ongoing dynamic. As a matter of fact, there have been two submissives since her. She is a hell of a femdominant and not interested in anyone being the boss of her either, except me...when she needs it. This doesn't take away from her independance or self-drive or determination. She just respects my life experience, knowledge and the fact that I am willing to share it with her.{/quote] quote: This it would seem ... is upsetting people ... or at least the Poll as indicated by my overflowing inbox of moral outrage would indicate. So far I am postively identified by the Resident Spotters as - a fake, a wannabe, a man, a brat, a SAM, a newbie, a man hating lesbian, damaged, derrange, one person says I want my daddy, someone else says something about rice in my shoes, and at least 14 people wonder if i would like a quick fuck (I messages them back first - come on guys .. a fuck is a fuck) yay for internet pick up sites! A lot of time is spent posturing on web boards ( I should know, I have done it often enough) about the perfection and wonder of BDSM, about the one true way, How M/s or D/s is something somehow sublime and spiritual, that it is better than vanilla and somehow our way of being is purer and greater than those poor mere mortal vanillas. So much so that when someone actually just states the truth, says what they actually want .... that honesty is attacked from those above in their Ivory towers. I will hold my hand up and admit to being fairly snotty towards some dynamics .. have certainly pissed in some people's cheerios on here over the years .. I was usually pissing on the person(s) involved rather than the ideal dynamic they shared ... (I usually get that bit wrong and hate the sinner rather than the sin - oops) Perhaps some of that nastiness comes about because of the way you behaved when you were in a differing dynamic and stating the truth then? You yourself state above about your own past posturing. Do you suppose that it is possible or reasonable for people to see your new stance as the result of bitterness/a change in your dynamic-relationship status rather than some new self-realization? quote: Any how .. to my point about Ivory towers ... Another thread is talking about knowing yourself ... and linking it to Mastery. Well I want to know this .. how many people know themselves .. and are actually HONEST about themselves .,.. can step down out of Ivory Towers, BDSMville, cut the crap and speak honestly about themselves. I don't know about others...I can only speak for myself. With me, what you see on the boards and on my profile is pretty much what you get in real life. What I say, I mean...and I think most of the regular posters on here do also. Makes it easier when I have met people in real life from CollarMe. I don't have to remember "pufferies" or my "Ivory tower" pronouncements. I just remember me and what I think and feel. quote: Here is me having a go. Being in borderline abusive relationships (personal/sexual/professional) gets my juices flowing - as long as I have an escape route and a safety net. So you tend to seek out those who tend to be more than possessive, they tend to view people as things. Seems like the only safety net and escape route you need is your own drive, determination, independance and...self-proclaimed...arrogance. Sooner or later...with these present and clamoring to come to the fore...the promise of submission/slavery you gave can be negated. quote: I am arrogant enough to know that I will never find anyone who is the boss of me, better than I am. My being the boss of a submissive doesn't necessarily equate to my being better than she, it equates to a freely-given power exchange in which she agrees to accept my guidance and control to take her in the direction she wants to go. I don't want control over areas of her life that she clearly knows better in...her career, etc....I want control over those areas that she readily admits difficulty with in which I do know better. Of course, for her to admit that there are those areas takes the ability to recognize that she is not perfect or knows best in everything. quote: I will never be made to do something I do not wish to do ... It might look that way, but it will never actually happen. So you've lied when you entered these relationships, promising submission/slavery? quote: I like being a heavy player because people look at me and flinch .. that turns me on. Nothing wrong with being a heavy player though Aylee carries a good quote as her tagline that is apropros to your feeling here...something about "no, that dress doesn't make you look fat...the fact that other's people's opinions about how you look matters to you makes you look shallow". quote: If I was a thin, beautiful woman who could walk into any bar and get the attention I want ... I would be as vanilla as the day is long. So BDSM and D/s bring you the attention you crave at the expense of those people who think your involvement in it is for real? quote: I could go on ... but it would spoil my profile. So anyway, try stepping out of the Ivory Tower and trying some real brutal honesty I just did...hope you can take it.

MistresseLotus -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:41:50 PM)
You want honesty? You are representative of youthful ignorance. But the good news is, you are finding yourself. Please do so without taking offense to "opinions" mailed to you. Taking things in stride is a sign of the maturity you are heading toward. Congratulations on your growth spurt. It gets easier as you go on. (Trust me, I've been there.. the trick is not making a total fool of yourself.)

moonvine -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 12:55:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness If I was a thin, beautiful woman who could walk into any bar and get the attention I want ... I would be as vanilla as the ay is long. I wouldn't. And that's from someone who wishes almost daily she was vanilla. It would make my life so much easier. But lots of things would. I can't change who I am and believe me - I have tried. Really hard.

daddysliloneds -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:04:41 PM)
i've never lived in an ivory tower, in real life or on any boards and if you want brutal honesty, then you come talk to me; i've always been that way... brutal honesty, however, doesn't get me nasty e-mails. it actually slowed down the amount of e-mail i was getting, and i'm perfectly okay with that fact[:D]

softness -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:05:14 PM)
quote: Then why not change your profile to reflect your newfound honesty/assessment of yourself and note that you are now a bottom rather than a slave? I have my reasons, people who are seriously enquiring towards me as a partner are having that question answered. quote: Do you suppose that it is possible or reasonable for people to see your new stance as the result of bitterness/a change in your dynamic-relationship status rather than some new self-realization? It was my self realisation, my brutal honesty with myself, that brought about the end of the relationship. Realisation that created a desire to re-negotiate the conditions of my slavery, negotiations that were not accepted and so release followed. Besides, I never mentioned bitterness, that is something you decided I was, trust me when I say I feel many emotions, but bitterness is not one of them [:D] quote: So you tend to seek out those who tend to be more than possessive, they tend to view people as things. Seems like the only safety net and escape route you need is your own drive, determination, independance and...self-proclaimed...arrogance. Sooner or later...with these present and clamoring to come to the fore...the promise of submission/slavery you gave can be negated. What it actually means is that relationships of all kinds where the balance of happiness and unhappiness is on the egde keep my juices flowing. My job is an objective example - I could do exactly the job I do now in a school where I was paid more, given better working hours and conditions, protected better etc etc .. but I enjoy being pushed right to the edge in my working life, it shows me what I am made of. I get a sick kick out of being right on the razor's edge. So shoot me for enjoying an "edgy"life ... its no different from liking a safe life where danger and risk are easily managed and predicted. quote: So you've lied when you entered these relationships, promising submission/slavery? Actually no, you will, if you care to scan back through my few thousand posts notice that on many occassions I have said that submission and slavery served my purposes and made me content - and for that reason only I remained where I was. I ahve always held that there is not such thing as an altruistic act, and that I would sacrifice pretty much anything to my ultimate happiness. For example I gave up smoking because to do so was pleasing to DV, I wished to be pleasing and so stopped smoking. Had I not been bothered about pleasing him, and so reaping the benefits of a happy partner ... nothing would have induced me to stop smoking. I have always indicated this belief to a prospective partner, and they all understood that though I would do many things I would otherwise dislike inside a D/s relationship I would never do anything I did not want to do - I always want to do things that make me happy in the end. Simple. Or am I only being submissive when I am doing things I do not wish to do? quote: Nothing wrong with being a heavy player though Aylee carries a good quote as her tagline that is apropros to your feeling here...something about "no, that dress doesn't make you look fat...the fact that other's people's opinions about how you look matters to you makes you look shallow". Am not about to defend what gives me a thrill, being shocking gives me one, shocking both to myself and to others. - If that makes me shallow .. then shallow I shall be quote: So BDSM and D/s bring you the attention you crave at the expense of those people who think your involvement in it is for real? Exactly so, I want attention from my partner, who has chosen me from a pool of people because of certain specific traits about me that they find attractive. Discovering BDSM - something that turns me on greatly - gave me a whole new world of being attractive to people. None of them have ever complained that they felt used. Well except one, but then he proposed marriage after we had sex the first time, so we can't really regard him as a benchmark of emotional stability now can we? My involvement in BDSM is 100% real, or do I imagine the relationships I have and the play I indulge in, or the skills I learn? Just because my approach towards and beliefs about BDSM are different to yours does not make them any less genuine .. (I have no great sense of loss at not being thought of as "True") ... quote: I just did...hope you can take it. thank you for stepping out of my ivory tower CD .. most enlightening [:D]

softness -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:08:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus You want honesty? You are representative of youthful ignorance. But the good news is, you are finding yourself. Please do so without taking offense to "opinions" mailed to you. Taking things in stride is a sign of the maturity you are heading toward. Congratulations on your growth spurt. It gets easier as you go on. (Trust me, I've been there.. the trick is not making a total fool of yourself.) All that needed was a head pat and a lollipop for being good thank you

RCdc -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:11:37 PM)
quote: I am arrogant enough to know that I will never find anyone who is the boss of me, better than I am. When I was young, free and single I had in my head exactly who I know I could submit to. Someone with an ego bigger than mine. Damn was I surprised when he was at the other end of the lens.[;)] My tower? In the words of FallOutBoy, I don't care what you think, as long as you think about me.[:D] the.dark.

SteelofUtah -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:14:59 PM)
"Never" is a hard word to swallow especially when you have to eat your own. I may disagree with mush of what people say but I try very hard not to say Never because having had to eat those words too many times has made me leary of them. Softness, Sometimes live gives you Lemons and when they do make Lemonade but when life gives you Potatoes you have to learn to make Vodka. And if you can meet someone who has one and someone else who has another hopefully you will be lucky enough to have thought about bringing a cup because no matter who you meet and no matter what life gives you you have to be prepared for it or let it go. I say this because you come across as angry and in need of release. If you don't have a cup then let it go there's no point in it anyway. I hope you find what you want just remember it doesn't always look like what you need. Steel *No, None of that was really supposed to make sense to anyone*

softness -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:18:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: I am arrogant enough to know that I will never find anyone who is the boss of me, better than I am. When I was young, free and single I had in my head exactly who I know I could submit to. Someone with an ego bigger than mine. Damn was I surprised when he was at the other end of the lens.[;)] Here is my thinking ... I know I make a pretty amazing boss of me ... I know of almost no one who I would trust to be a better one. You knew that someone with a better ego than yours would win your trust and confidence. What I KNOW will win mine is a statement like this from a partner .... " you know what, you dont need me to tell you how to run your life, because you do it great so I'm not going to pretend these things are for your good. I'm going to be honest and not spin any bull and just say they are for my benefit, because they make me happier - so would you do this for me? Oh yeah, and I trust your judgement, so when you think I am spouting a load of crap, I want you to tell me and do what you know is best" A man/woman who is big enough to admit that, and say it to me with perfect honesty - that is someone who I would hand the reigns to - because they would know when to give the horse its head.

NorthernGent -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:20:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness A lot of time is spent posturing on web boards ( I should know, I have done it often enough) about the perfection and wonder of BDSM, about the one true way, How M/s or D/s is something somehow sublime and spiritual Worthy of a thread. I can guarantee you it's not spiritual for me; it's purely utilitarian.

KatyLied -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:23:48 PM)
quote: I have done it often enough) about the perfection and wonder of BDSM, about the one true way, How M/s or D/s is something somehow sublime and spiritual Yeah, but when you have something you think may turn out well, you will find that you don't feel the need to convince everyone about it. Sometimes (often?) I think that posturing occurs because people are trying to convince themselves.

RCdc -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:25:24 PM)
I really didn't think it possible though hun. It was my 'safety net'. My get out clause. The ivory tower he collapsed. [;)] the.dark.

leadership527 -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness What I KNOW will win mine is a statement like this from a partner .... " you know what, you dont need me to tell you how to run your life, because you do it great so I'm not going to pretend these things are for your good. I'm going to be honest and not spin any bull and just say they are for my benefit, because they make me happier - so would you do this for me? Oh yeah, and I trust your judgement, so when you think I am spouting a load of crap, I want you to tell me and do what you know is best" A man/woman who is big enough to admit that, and say it to me with perfect honesty - that is someone who I would hand the reigns to - because they would know when to give the horse its head. Oddly enough (and yes, my viewpoints are certainly not the norm), I see nothing incompatible with this quote and the deepest forms of submission I can imagine. In fact, it pretty much describes the relationship my wife and I have. Yet for all that, she is mine in all ways that matter. In my admittedly odd viewpoint, I would call everything you wrote "Basic Mastery 101" -- mastery in the master/slave sense. About the only thing I'd change is, "when you think I am spouting a load of crap, I want you to tell me so that I can get less stupid. Then I want you to obey me." Just some food for thought.

DesFIP -> RE: Ivory Towers .... and other false gods (10/10/2008 1:38:47 PM)
Oh no, the rice in shoes guy is back. Condolences on that. I don't go for bad boys, bikers in black leather with long hair make me laugh. I am afraid of damn near anything you can name and have no intention of letting anyone muck around in my psyche. I have a therapist, and she's top notch. If she can't cure me of agoraphobia, especially driving in strange places, nobody else can. So far in 53 years I've met only one man who I trust to be the boss of me when I need someone else to take over. Grumbling at him forcing me to do something I so don't want to do, but have to, today. One freaking man out of all of them who I can trust. Trust issues? Not me, lol. Oh and if you think you get hate mail, you should have seen my inbox when looking. No sadists need apply brought out every damn sadist and wannabe on the planet promising/threatening to 'teach' me to like pain. Don't think so, because I'm not enrolling in that class. Apparently bondage isn't twuly submissive, only masochism is. Shrugs. The only thing I would say is that you're just out of a relationship and being a smart woman you aren't ready to hand over control now. Which doesn't mean that in six months or six years you won't be ready to. We change, often into people we had no idea we were growing into.

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