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RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:25:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Neat debating point....You don't have to show any evidence that Obama has the qualifications to lead this country...although I totally agree that he is very capable of promoting "change"...so is a diseased cell in a healthy body.

What's the old saying..."if it smells like an elephant, is big like an elephant, has a trunk like an elephant...maybe it's an elephant!

I have not heard the name of anyone on Obama's Christmas List of a person who is not either a radical terorist,

like Ayers, a radical pastor, like the good Rev. Wright, a convicted felon, like Tony Rezko.  His stated mentors are the communist Sol Olinsky and, of course, the good Reverend, until he threw Jerimiah under the bus.

The man has written two memoirs, (but not much else in terms of legislation) and pretty much spells out his views.  What was the key chapter in those books that convinced you about the "leadership" qualities of this man?

Those of us who are trying to understand how people could be supportive of a man they don't even know find so convincing about this person...or is it strictly the horrible environment of today that creates this inner need to self-destruct?


cory,

Show some integrity yourself. Clearly, you aren't striving to understand Obama supporters, as your mischaracterizations indicate.

Even if you dislike him, his successful primary campaign alone portrays the ability to lead, as Dems could have simply embraced Hillary. Now, a majority of popular support also turns to Obama. The election will decide shortly, and then we'll all deal with what we've got.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/12/2008 8:56:07 AM >

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:34:13 AM   
groundhogphil


Posts: 823
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline 		How is it that these important issues are the Republican fault? when you have had the Democrats in control for the last four years? And why is it that if I run an Advertisement and it isn't true I can be charged with false advertising. But if I am a politician I can lie through my teeth in my ads and its called running for office.

_____________________________

Beat me, Spank me, Whip me..... Just don't forget the Peanut Butter........

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:39:03 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: groundhogphil

How is it that these important issues are the Republican fault? when you have had the Democrats in control for the last four years? And why is it that if I run an Advertisement and it isn't true I can be charged with false advertising. But if I am a politician I can lie through my teeth in my ads and its called running for office.


ground,

Democrats took a majority in Jan. 2007, and under a Republican president. Before that, since Jan. 2001, Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, in addition to the White House.

That's hardly four years of Democrats in control. Not even two years.

(in reply to groundhogphil)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:50:10 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Neat debating point....You don't have to show any evidence that Obama has the qualifications to lead this country...although I totally agree that he is very capable of promoting "change"...so is a diseased cell in a healthy body.

What's the old saying..."if it smells like an elephant, is big like an elephant, has a trunk like an elephant...maybe it's an elephant!

I have not heard the name of anyone on Obama's Christmas List of a person who is not either a radical terorist,

like Ayers, a radical pastor, like the good Rev. Wright, a convicted felon, like Tony Rezko.  His stated mentors are the communist Sol Olinsky and, of course, the good Reverend, until he threw Jerimiah under the bus.

The man has written two memoirs, (but not much else in terms of legislation) and pretty much spells out his views.  What was the key chapter in those books that convinced you about the "leadership" qualities of this man?

Those of us who are trying to understand how people could be supportive of a man they don't even know find so convincing about this person...or is it strictly the horrible environment of today that creates this inner need to self-destruct?


cory,

Some some integrity yourself. Clearly, you aren't striving to understand Obama supporters, as your mischaracterizations indicate.

Even if you dislike him, his successful primary campaign alone portrays the ability to lead, as Dems could have simply embraced Hillary. Now, a majority of popular support also turns to Obama. The election will decide shortly, and then we'll all deal with what we've got.


I agree with you, totally!  Obama and his advisors have engineered probably the best primary and general election campaign I have ever lived through, including Bill Clinton coming out of nowhere to get the party nomination.

Obama always refers back to his "community activist" work as a younger man.  What better training for a guy who would lead a campaign to bring out voters.  His campaign organizing activites we are seeing today represent the culmination of years of creating a persona, skillful planning, training and implementation.  He totally did an end-run
around Hillary in the early stages of the democrat primary and by the time she woke up to the fact that she lost control of HER and Bills democrat party (read super delegates) it was too late.  She won the battles of the big states but lost the war.    Obama's skill set in terms of poltical organization are fantastic.

He has, however, not really shown me the leadership qualities, the principles of government that I would find attractive in a candiate.  To be absolutely honest here, I am totally disappointed in George Bush and the republican party and consider myself more of an independent that a party member.  The republicans had their chance and blew it with democrat party like big government spending, wasting taxpayer money..etc. 

However, with all it's warts, I still want the USA to continue on the path of democracy (bumpy as it might be)...and Obama, based only on his own writing and philosophy of government (Michelle too, for that matter) is 180 degrees opposite my views. Recent continued turning up rocks and seeing the worms underneath with stories like ACORN's methods only re-inforces my fears and concerns.  I have only one vote...it seems that some Obama supporters being registered get 2,3 5 or ten...votes.  More to come on this, I am sure.

< Message edited by corysub -- 10/12/2008 8:52:01 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:53:15 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
I have only one vote...it seems that some Obama supporters being registered get 2,3 5 or ten...votes.  More to come on this, I am sure.


Ah yes... blame your loosing the game on the fact that the opposition is cheating. They do it in playgrounds every single day.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 8:55:27 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I agreed with everything up to here (except one whom to vote for):

quote:

it seems that some Obama supporters being registered get 2,3 5 or ten...votes. More to come on this, I am sure.


What seems to be more the case is young voters not understanding the importance of details.

Seriously, I can't see qwertyui walking into a polling place and casting a vote.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/12/2008 8:56:59 AM >

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 9:03:28 AM   
JohnboyNC


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline 		corysub
you are one smart man!  I agree with you totally.  Like I stated in another thread.  ACORN is the smoking gun.  Even if Obama wins and he just may, the ugly truth WILL reveal itself.  But it will not matter.  We will suffer through his presidency.  If he raises taxes he will prove that FDR's "New Deal" was not the true answer for this country.  Obama's "Change we can believe in" will carry this country straight into the ground.  The economic Depression/Recession will last longer than it needs to because of Obama's misguided economic plan/raising taxes.  Once this country has been through the terrible time Americans will be looking for an alternative to dem or pub and that is when the Libertarian Party will stand out with it's very simple solution to bring this country back to what it once was, FREE!  

< Message edited by JohnboyNC -- 10/12/2008 9:05:52 AM >

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 10:56:07 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Interesting Cory...your last post included this little piece of intellectual dishonesty wherein you claim not to be a Republican while castigating them for imitating what you see as Democratic Party evils.....if you were truly as you say actually an independent could you not have bemoaned the Republicans without tarring them with that most evil of sins...namely acting like ,egad Democrats...
  To be absolutely honest here, I am totally disappointed in George Bush and the republican party and consider myself more of an independent that a party member.  The republicans had their chance and blew it with democrat party like big government spending, wasting taxpayer money..etc.  

If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck...methinks it is a duck!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 12:24:29 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Interesting Cory...your last post included this little piece of intellectual dishonesty wherein you claim not to be a Republican while castigating them for imitating what you see as Democratic Party evils.....if you were truly as you say actually an independent could you not have bemoaned the Republicans without tarring them with that most evil of sins...namely acting like ,egad Democrats...
To be absolutely honest here, I am totally disappointed in George Bush and the republican party and consider myself more of an independent that a party member.  The republicans had their chance and blew it with democrat party like big government spending, wasting taxpayer money..etc.  

If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck...methinks it is a duck!


Hey Mike...don't really understand your reasoning with that point.  I never said I wasn't a republican..I was..for decades!  However, the party of Reagan abandoned it's core conservative principles and acted just like the tax and spend government philosophy of the democrats.  I fail to see how that is intellectually dishonest.  I have not given a dime to the party in four years, did not vote for McCain in the primary, and was actually warming up to Hillary because you knew what you were getting with Hillary and I could live with that.  I don't like some of the positions McCain has taken in support of the "open border" policy of this administration, and certainly think he is out of his mind with respect to buying up sub-prime mortgages, recasting them at lower interest and principle amounts to the homeowner.  In other words, all of us who work 10 -14 hours a day to pay our bills, do the right thing, get screwed and the idiots get government help.  That's taking the "government cheese" more than a little bit too far for me.  On many other things I agree with McCain.  Personally, my choice would have been Mitt or possibly Hillary.

With respect to Obama...his acquisition of friends on the lunatic left, his promises, his programs, his radical focus, his "words, full of "sound and fury" change with the most recent headline.  He ran on "Iraq", backed away quickly from his "immediate withhdrawal nonesense", and now is going to save the financial system of the planet, and patronize the hordes of those chanting "change"..with almost a trillion dollars in promises not to be fulfilled.  His plan to destroy the healthcare system of America for the 15% that don't have healthcare is ludicrous.  Since when has the government under any party done run anything!  Legislators don't run things, they just pass laws for other people to break their asses to try to perform "mandated" demands of Congress.  In case  you didn't look...that Congress of Pelosi and Reid has a 10% popularity contest.  The only thing this Congress did was raise the minimum wage and I had to fire a bunch of high school kids not worth $7.00 and hour to work in my stores.  Great piece of legislation for the small businessman.

Obama, ahh yes, Obama is going to give a college education to EVERYONE...when anyone who has ever been on a college campus knows that at least a third of the kids there would be better served learning a trade to support themselves, instead of four, or five, years of a vacation on the taxpayer.  He should have learned a lesson on his whirlwind tour of Germany that students are put on academic or trade tracks..and those kids that don't study politcal science, rocks for jocks, calculus, or Plato's essays on "truth", turn out some pretty good cars and machinery after they go through their internships.  Hey..but that's no fun.."working" for a living...when the government will just send a check.

No thank you, Russia and China tried socialism and are now prospering under a sort of mixed capitalism/communist dictatorship form of government.

In case you haven't noticed, by the way, the Rusian Bear is alive and well.  They just fired three intercontinental missles in a "test"...yea, sure, some test.  It was a message that we are "tanned and rested and ready...and we are BACK"!  Maybe some of our lost friends on the continent will put Uncle Sam back on the Christmas card list...The "Bear" is growling and you might just get what you want..the most "inexperienced" President in American history at a time of dire need.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 12:35:30 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		cory,

Now that I know you CAN argue from a standpoint of common ground (which I truly appreciated, by the way), the above sweeping claims are disappointing.

Yeah, probably no one has the time to go through phrase by phrase and parse out your generalizations and perhaps deliberate errors. I'd honestly, though, like to debate with people with whom I disagree but approach the process sincerely.

ALL nations are in mixed economies. We have been for quite some time. And the rest is a rant.

Obama is more to the left than McCain, sure. But the left gets FAR more lunatic than that---as does the extreme right.



(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 12:49:44 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 
We`re not interested in fighting the Viet Nam war all over again or in fighting the cold war all over,again

We`ve got both hands full with two leaderless wars right now,for any of that.

I`m sure you and the cons know this is bull shit.We know it`s bull shit and we know that you know it`s bull shit.

You don`t really want an answer or resolution to these "questions",but rather you want,"the un-answered question".

Something scary that will linger and do damage.

You and the cons certainly don`t want clarity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Using the same standard of association that you(and the cons) are,McCain pals around with domestic terrorist too.

Hmmm,oh really?!

Ones that were bombing clinics during their association with McCain.

And there`s radical G.Gordon Liddy,again McCain was "palin" around with him at the time Liddy advocated shooting LEOs in the face or groan,where there`s less protection from bullets.

He`s also paled around with nazi-symps and right-wing death squad types,again,during the time they were doing their evil.He allowed those nuts to put his name on their letterhead!Hell-o-ow?

Can you square this apparent contradiction,cory?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/12/2008 12:59:16 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 12:55:21 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Trying to extend an olive branch and open up meaningful debate here.

Not that I disagree!

;-)

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 1:11:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		In case you haven't noticed, by the way, the Rusian Bear is alive and well.  They just fired three intercontinental missles in a "test"...yea, sure, some test.  It was a message that we are "tanned and rested and ready...and we are BACK"!  Maybe some of our lost friends on the continent will put Uncle Sam back on the Christmas card list...The "Bear" is growling and you might just get what you want..the most "inexperienced" President in American history at a time of dire need.
___________________________________________________________________________________
A little late in the game to resurect cold war fears Cory.....though that particular weak on defence card has been played often in the past 8 years.....it's the economy that scares now and Mcsame's lurching scatter shot approach to it is just too scary.Now come back with some more Obama is a leftist RNC talking point...you beat the drum well,unfortunately for you that tune isn't going over well this year.....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 1:32:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Russia can be so bold because the price of oil has been so high. Same for Iran.

What brought down the Soviet Union was their dependence on high oil revenues which then fell abruptly, leaving them strapped for cash.

But our "leadership" has been a rich man's son whose business experience was running two wildcat oil companies into bankruptcy and buying a sports team along with a team of wealthy investors and running it at taxpayers' expense. And hey, he looked into Putin's eyes and liked what he saw.

A sharp, insightful, creative candidate who has run an excellent campaign against very tough opposition in both the primary and the general election, who had the courage to stand and vote against the Iraq stupidity when it was unpopular to do so---yes, I'm ready to elect that man President.

The other choice is leadership as shooting from the hip, capriciously going with reactions to circumstances. McCain's response to the credit crisis was to declare as President he'd have fired the SEC Chair----which the President does not have the power to do. So much for "experience." He reminds me of the teacher who has taught for 40 years but just repeats the same outdated crap continually. Then there's Sarah, whose depth of "experience" led her to ask "what does a Vice-President do?"

Not exactly inspiring confidence there.

I truly believe Barack Obama will face the challenges before us and lead this nation, divided as it is, to new heights.

And that's why on Nov. 4, I will vote for Barack Obama, as well as encourage others to do the same.

Live well,

Tim

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 2:42:09 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Wait... the cold war was extremely profitable.  Why not start another one to usher in a new era of American prosperity?
It would be GREAT!

*My name is Irishknight and I approved the sarcasm in this message.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 2:44:35 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnboyNC

corysub
you are one smart man!  I agree with you totally.  Like I stated in another thread.  ACORN is the smoking gun.  Even if Obama wins and he just may, the ugly truth WILL reveal itself.  But it will not matter.  We will suffer through his presidency.  If he raises taxes he will prove that FDR's "New Deal" was not the true answer for this country.  Obama's "Change we can believe in" will carry this country straight into the ground.  The economic Depression/Recession will last longer than it needs to because of Obama's misguided economic plan/raising taxes.  Once this country has been through the terrible time Americans will be looking for an alternative to dem or pub and that is when the Libertarian Party will stand out with it's very simple solution to bring this country back to what it once was, FREE!  


After all, the current policies are working so well.

Not like that 90s prosperity shit.

(in reply to JohnboyNC)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/12/2008 5:31:50 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		There are valid arguments that the artificial 90s boom caused today's financial woes.  When you create a market based on guesses instead of facts, it will fall.  A house with no foundation will fall.  A house whose foundation is moved to China due to corporate greed and backstabbing politicians was torn down on purpose.


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/14/2008 2:10:51 PM   
ArizonaSunSwitch


Posts: 205
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

There are valid arguments that the artificial 90s boom caused today's financial woes.  When you create a market based on guesses instead of facts, it will fall.  A house with no foundation will fall.  A house whose foundation is moved to China due to corporate greed and backstabbing politicians was torn down on purpose.



The artificial 90s boom (not to mention the 9/11 damage) was unwound by 2005 or so (way before i had any hope for).

Of course, government had to come along and mandate mortgages to those who couldn't pay. The idiots that signed those loans are now in foreclosure and whining about predatory lending. Initially, these programs had the effect of radically appreciating housing values, so as this bubble unwinds its going to catch responsible owners also. Ie. Those that lose jobs won't be able to sell their houses as they owe more than it's now worth.

Of course, i'm a total asshat that put 20% down and added another 10% to my equity in the form of remodeling. My place 3 years later is now worth about what I owe on it. My 30% percent equity is vaporized. If I was irresponsible I could of got a zero down loan and stuck the bank with the whole damn thing. The government isn't subsidizing banks in order to reduce my interest rate or principal. The more irresponsible you are in this country the more you get to pick the taxpayers pocket.

The current situation is a liberal politician's wet dream. The credit tightening that has to happen to unwind this housing bubble can cause a depression. Of course the last time we had a depression 99 percent of the population was law abiding and didn't believe anyone owed them anything. If we have depression now, there will be wide spread rioting, stealing and all kind of mayhem (after all, rich people suck and deserve to be stolen from). At least in urban areas they'll be a popular call for military presence.

If this bail out fails we're looking at martial law. Good luck getting rid of it with a marxist like obama in power. Liberty will be lost in this nation and most of the population will be cheering when it happens. (Which is always the case when a country loses liberty from internal forces).

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/14/2008 3:03:21 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yet we have a Republican president pushing these policies through. Has Bush become one of your fantasy liberal politicians having a wet dream? And before you tell me about the Democrats in Congress, Bush could simply have vetoed all this. Instead, he proposed it---and keeps going further, now nationalizing commercial banks as well as investment banks. This is absolutely socialist, marxism if you like, coming from the current President in power.

You also predict "liberty will be lost in this nation" while the current administration and the then Republican Congress took away a host of rights under the Patriot Act.


(in reply to ArizonaSunSwitch)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama, ACORN, and more.... - 10/14/2008 5:28:08 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yet we have a Republican president pushing these policies through. Has Bush become one of your fantasy liberal politicians having a wet dream? And before you tell me about the Democrats in Congress, Bush could simply have vetoed all this. Instead, he proposed it---and keeps going further, now nationalizing commercial banks as well as investment banks. This is absolutely socialist, marxism if you like, coming from the current President in power.

You also predict "liberty will be lost in this nation" while the current administration and the then Republican Congress took away a host of rights under the Patriot Act.





Both parties are involved. Now please go ahead and spew partisan nonsense and I'll drink some more coffee.


_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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