RE: dishonoring a request (Full Version)

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leadership527 -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:12:34 PM)

Sheez, you folks really did kind of pig pile on here. I am, like many, more than a bit skeptical of "mentor" relationships from a dom to a sub. I think it was Michael who asked at our MAST meeting, "So can anyone explain to me why it is that subs aren't teaching subs?" It's one of those "duh" sort of questions. I'm definitely training my wife to be a sub, but that's a bit different seeing as we already have a committed relationship and my stake in the game along with any conflict of interest questions are clear and obvious.

But aside from all my natural skepticism, I haven't seen anything weird or red flaggy here. Actually, in my best effort to read between the lines, my spidey sense tells me "decent guy trying to help out". I can even sympathize with the temporary injunction against outside influences. I did the same with my wife the first time we went to anything "scene-y".



chamberqueen -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:20:46 PM)

You can never stop others from doing what they want.  My profile starts out that I am happily collared, yet I still get Doms emailing me that they want a relationship with me.  I got so frustrated with one that I actually wrote back, "What part of happily collared did you not understand?"  Certain people seem to enjoy going for the unattainable.  Is it disrespectful?  In my mind, yes.  I feel that the Doms that write things like that to me disrespect both my Master and our relationship.  Can I force them to stop writing to me?  Only by removing my profile which I refuse to do because I try to help other subs and slaves when they have problems and won't let jerks chase me away.  Should my Master punish ME because someone else disrepected him by writing to me?  Not at all - I didn't invite them to and he knows that.

There's an old phrase that comes to mind:  You can legislate morality.  Use this as an object lesson to her, that there are always wolves on the prowl.  If she was collared to you, or anyone else, she would still find them out there.   Don't let them bother you because there is nothing that you can do to stop them, but you can turn a negative into a positive by teaching her with it.



KatyLied -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:47:25 PM)

quote:

I can even sympathize with the temporary injunction against outside influences.


If the op is confident about his place in her life, he doesn't have to worry about outside influences.  You can't influence someone who doesn't want to be influenced.  Sort of the same thing as:  you can't dominate someone who doesn't want to be dominated by you.



windchymes -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:51:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NumberSix

Ja, dishonoring?

Crock of shit.

You don't become some phantasmagorical cocooned sprite upon your entrance to slap and tickle university.

Women have pussies, men want 'em.

Your sence of honor does not draw some magical sphere of protection around anyone.  You will not be able to defend this flight of fancy from your keyboard.

DIE! DIE! DIE! (take that you dishonorable fellow.........)


There is a soveriegnty to the soul.  That's all there is.   You cannot cause the rain to stop falling nor the tears to cease forever.

She's young, and will get over this blasphemous turn of events, I hope you do too.


6   


Rah Rah Ron!  lol



NumberSix -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:58:29 PM)

Another perfect example.

windchymes has repeatedly dishonored my requests to roll up to the crib and be my wanton whore.

Even though she absolutely adores my ass.  It's a net thing.


Ron



antipode -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 12:58:32 PM)

Mentor without profile. Impressive.



NumberSix -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 1:00:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

Mentor without profile. Impressive.


And a mentor without portfolio at this juncture, it would seem.

Philip Nolan



antipode -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 1:00:35 PM)

Hear, hear. He's just another cyber freak.



Usako -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 2:06:14 PM)

Mentor? Honor? LMAO

If you REALLY wanted to help her you'd tell her to stop wasting time with an internert man and just go to her local scene and start talking to people. You're text on her computer screen about "honor" and crap won't really help in real life. Unless it's just to boost your ego. Call yourself a mentor acting more like her dom, secretly trying to pop her cherry in the BDSM world?

And not allowed to talk to anyone else? Pfft. That's classic insecurity. Why isn't she allowed to talk to anyone else? Afraid she might get better advice or the poor, virginal lamb cannot dare stand up against all the other text in her inbox with a simple "No thank you.?"

Adults can do what they want and hopefully think for themselves, as you've seen when the men message her anyway despite some line in her profile she put in there because her cyber master..errr mentor, wants to control her life. You get all the jollies of having a sub and she gets nothing much in return; sounds totally fair.

If she has a local scene she should be there exploring, not listening to some "mentor" on CM.



MadRabbit -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 2:36:06 PM)

I think you have the best of intentions, but are really doing the wrong thing in the long run.
  • Honor and integrity really have no bearing outside of an individual philosophy and making these traits synonymous with the lifestyle is an incredibly inaccurate and naive perspective and setting her up for an incredible fall back to reality.
  • Would you send a house key to an anonymous online "house protection" agency and instill them with trust to safeguard and protect your home? That's my general opinion of online anonymous Internet protectors and mentors, particularly one's who restrict communication with the outside world.
  • Your contributing to a bullshit mentality among the heterosexual D/S community that insists on turning female adults into children. How many male submissives have you mentored?
  • If you somehow expect half the people to honor your email restriction, your as naive as she is and have no business mentoring anyone.
  • Given the vast degrees of quality regarding BDSM groups and their social dynamics, I fail to understand how you can adequately prepare her to be part of something you probably have no first hand experience with outside of a handful of assumptions regarding how things are normally done in BDSM.
  • Safely searching for an honorable Dom is something that is developed via experience and intuition. Outside of giving her some basic bullshit safety protocols to follow when meeting some, any "education" outside of that probably falls in the realm of your own stereotypes and personal bias.

Congratulations. Thank you for contributing to the development of yet another person who will go through a series of conniptions when they realize the world of alternative lifestyles is just as bad, grey, and murky as the vanilla world they came from.



xensuous -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 4:10:37 PM)

Quote: If you REALLY wanted to help her you'd tell her to stop wasting time with an internert man and just go to her local scene and start talking to people.

Okay, we all agree the trolls on the 'net are wannabe's and trolls. I don't see that in this guy. He really is trying to help. I started out on the 'net almost fifteen years ago...and it was different then, but there were still a lot of trolls and wannabe's. I went to the local scene when I was a newbie, and it almost destroyed me. The 'tricks' the wanna be's learn are much more complex, and far harder for a girl to spot if she's really new. I disagree that you just throw her in and let her 'be an adult'. She needs some things to look for, some things to ask, some sense of who she is, and some basic parameters. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor...a long distance mentor...a real mentor...and he was of great value to me until I found my Master. My experience may be the exception more than the norm, but that doesn't make it wrong, any more than all mentorships are wrong. I see a lot of faulty assumptions here and judgements. I understand they come from the fact that most mentorships  ARE less than good for the sub, but I am saddened by the fact that this poster was slammed in such a harsh way, when he did say "To me, with my background in the scene, these Doms are dishonoring both her and me."

I don't know if he's still reading since his profile is gone...but whether it is about the scene or not, imho it IS dishonorable to contact anyone who asks not to be contacted. It is also true that online and on the net many many people do things they might not do in person, like violate personal space and email. It is even more true that he can use this whole unpleasant situation to teach the girl in question some of the harsh truths the rest of us already know...few who call themselves a dominant truly do have honor and integrity...and some of the ways they show you that are....x, y, z.

I hope Anne and her Mentor both find growth and happiness in their friendship, and eventually find happiness in their own relationship. I also hope the rest of us, no matter how long we've been here, find just a little more tolerance and kindness in our hearts and our responses.
xen

As to subs being trained by subs...I am happy for those girls who can do it that way. I am not one of them. I have few if any female friends, never have had. I cannot relate to other subs on a 'let's interact and teach one another' level. For those that can do it, and learn, that's great, so long as the dom doesn't end up 'unteaching' more than teaching. I take counsel from those whom I trust and who have earned that trust. I learn best from the man whose feet I kneel at and who holds my heart.



catize -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 4:22:57 PM)

Allow me to mentor you:
Lesson #1.  You do not have authority over the entire population, or even a large percentage of them.
Lesson #2.  Cyber commands and $4 will buy you a cup of latte at a coffe shop.



tweedydaddy -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 4:43:50 PM)

If this sub is not wearing your collar/mark/irons/ring, they are available.
If they walk, they were not yours. If Doms show interest you should  accept the fact, all the sub have to do us politely decline the contact, how hard is that?
I have several good friends who are collared slaves to others, my friendship is not a threat. Being nervous of other Doms seems weak to me. I don't tell people who they can talk to. You need to read either some De Sade or the Sadean Woman by Angela Carter.



Usako -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 5:02:04 PM)

I guess the guy thinks he's being helpful, he doesn't sound like a predator but I still stand by my word of it being BS.

I don't see why someone needs someone else to give them common sense. Of course there are jerks and users in the BDSM world and it can be "scary" for a newbie, but if someone has enough common sense to avoid/sense/handle those types in the everyday world I don't see why they need someone to tell them how to do it in the BDSM world.

Of course advice never hurt. Keys to try to look out for, like a dom trying to own you and keep you away from contacting friends and family or whatever. I mean, common sense is an amazing thing but I guess a starry eyed newbie might ignore his/her common sense so eager to join the leather and chains world. Ok. But I don't see that as mentoring. If I was to ask someone to mentor me I'd want hands on help. Mentoring me in skills I might need. Ways to do things. Advice as well, but mainly help. I don't see how telling her not to talk to anyone else is mentoring. How is cutting her off from the potential of finding more advice helpful? Of course a douche or two will message her but then we have common sense. Delete the e-mail and move on!

He's acting more like cyber master than mentor in my opinion. And, as someone who puts almost zero weight in most cyber relationships, I don't see this as helpful. I think she should go join her local community ASAP. That's what munches are for! To talk in a neutral space to others with experience and perhaps get the courage to step deeper in. Perhaps find a local mentor who can actually give advice she needs; like telling her who in the scene she should stay away from. Or who in her local scene might help her even more.

I don't equate mentor with having a "temp" sub/slave. Mentoring is to help, not to also help get your jollies off. Like using them as a play toy saying it's to give "experience" or using her for sex or service. Or, in this case, ordering her around.

Sure, he might have all the best intentions but to me, personally, he seems like the type of guy I would tell a newbie sub to stay away from. Giving her net orders, telling her not to contact others, giving her a false idea of honor and such. As I said, acting more like cyber master than mentor. Just because this is the BDSM world doesn't negate the lessons learned in the "vanilla" world. If she can remember those and use those, I feel she'd be better off than listening to some dude on the internet.



girlivy -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 5:23:54 PM)

Not a Master by a long shot, and will totally accept the punishments that may or may not come with posting to this thread (a girl can only dream!)In my sick and twisted little head, I feel that mentoring is a form of direction without restrictions. And training is more of a  "hands-on" approach *just my POV*  After all, how can anyone grow and learn if taken out of a situation that they are needing help in?  How I learned was to be allowed to communicate with potentials and then AFTER responding, or action was taken, Sir and I would sit down and discuss things, like how i may have been able to handle it better, or what I was not seeing. The whole point of this was to allow me to "fall", hence allowing growth.   As far as your feeling you or she is not being honored,  I understand that to a point. There will always be some who respect ones chosen path, and some who do not.  The ones who do not , make it an easy choice to not waste time with.just my 0.02.. Well make that 0.01 now due to the economy!Good luck,Cheers!



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 6:05:05 PM)

JMO, unpopular though I suspect it will be:


  • There are groups like munches, SIGS, s-type-only groups, etc., that do a really good job, INSIDE the community, of welcoming newcomers.
  • Cutting an individual off from the community and input for a period of time while one 'trains' that person without input is not "mentorship" -- it is training, and, again IMO, a sneaky way of developing dependence in an s-type to make hir malleable for one's 'collar'... especially if one is controlling and 'advising' on who is and isn't a "good" dominant figure for hir.
  • Mentorship is something that works best when shared between individuals who have the same goals. Because of that, it is preferable for an s-type with experience to mentor another s-type. A D-type, and even a switch, are on completely different sets of goals. When I see a D-type "mentoring" an s-type, I wonder who is trying to fool whom.


I have absolutely no sympathy. If you are not her 'master' then why are you cutting her off from contact with others? It seems self-serving, rather than having any sense of being beneficial to her. The least you could do is be forthright about your intentions, and let the chips fall where they may.

Firestorm




OrionTheWolf -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 6:56:11 PM)

Happens with my collared slaves profile as well. I have instructed my girl to block any who do not direct the email to me first, or contact me on my profile first. Not all are approved contact, but some are. For the five Dominants that have been allowed to contact her, every single one of them eventually tried to persuade her into doing something she was not supposed to.

It is not surprising to me, and I do consider it not only disrespectful, but for those that agreed to certain terms to cmail my property, deceitful. That is how I view most people are though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnesMentor

I am mentoring a young, novice submissive, from a distance, to better equip her and prepare her to enter her local bdsm scene. She is learning about honor and integrity and is becoming more confident about herself with each passing day.

At my request, she put a very clear message in her profile that she is in training and is temporarily not permitted to communicate with anyone. She stated that it's only for a short period. After that, I will encourage her to talk to others and will help her transition into her local community, and will teach her how to safely search for an honorable Dom.

In spite of the request in her profile that she not be contacted, she continually gets messages from other 'Doms' and informs me each time.

To me, with my background in the scene, these Doms are dishonoring both her and me.

Comments?




CalifChick -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 7:09:32 PM)

I'm seeing a lot of words and concepts tossed about that people seem to think come automatically with an interest in BDSM.  If it does, it sure didn't come in my welcome kit.

1.  Dishonor - there must first be honor for there to be dishonor.  To have honor, there must be a history of some sort (and just liking kink isn't enough).  If I don't know you, then nothing I can do will dishonor you.

2.  Disrespect - there must first be respect for there to be disrespect.  Again, if I don't know you, I don't respect you.

Perhaps the word people are searching for is "discourteous".  Sure takes it down a few notches, doesn't it, when someone says, "that is discourteous" vs. "that is dishonorable."


Cali



NumberSix -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 7:38:15 PM)

Could you see your way clear to use a little more tongue?

Or is that somehow discourteous?

6



CalifChick -> RE: dishonoring a request (10/11/2008 9:59:28 PM)

My tongue is yours, Six.  Just don't detach it from me, 'kay?


Cali



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