RE: Feeling very protective (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/17/2008 2:49:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Actually your post kicked up my desire to be protective of your masters father.  For me your descriptions were way too graphic and personal to have needed to be put here just for you to make the point you wanted and it felt like a violation- when he is in no state to do anything about it for himself. 

I know that those are my feelings, but I think it illustrates your point perfectly- when we see "wrongs" and feel connected to others, we want to do something/anything to make it right again.

I think you should put more energy into remaining stable and not letting your own sense of ego get so easily punctured and feeling "excluded."


I don't see any difference in what IC has done in her post than we see every day by people including this post and including yours.  If we are going to start putting ego punture as a reason for hers, we might as put it for everyone and that isn't constructive at all.
 
the.dark.




SlaveIndigochild -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 12:42:33 PM)

The funeral was yesterday. And before this becomes a bun-fight about if this is bdsm related or not, and indeed if it seems to be something about ego-puncturing nonsense: it was above all else, an incredible opportunity to serve.
Dad wanted a typical English cream tea so i baked scones and made little snadwhiches cut into diamonds and put out the best cups for cups of tea after the creamtion. And glasses for sherry for the eldely ladies.
I'm His slave and yet i was sat between  Master and His son on the front seat of the family car in the entourage. I could not have asked for more.
Master stood and spoke in Church and gave thanks to the nurses and carers who enabled the wish to die at home. He cried.
This was a very profound experience because it happened between worlds. Between the vanilla and the bdsm which got played out in a seamless way.
It was profound because when duty and service occur in the world in the best ways then the world becomes a better place for it. I am not talking about my attempts at service here although i woud like to thank all of those who have sent their support to Us via me here on Collarme as Master does not post on the forums. Thank you for your blessings. All of you thought about, your own experiences with ill health and death and dying and how it configures with our way of life.
Not only that: dad was a sailor and joined the Navy at 17 to serve for his country and what he felt was rightful.
Above all it has taught me that a master can be a gentle, dutiful, and a respectful son.
And a man showing total acceptance and respect for me within his family and at one of the most important moments in the life cycle: his father's passing.
 




Lockit -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 12:46:55 PM)

(((((Indigo)))))  Thank you for letting us know more and glad you are back!




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 4:27:05 PM)

quote:

But I do find that your timing in aiming a dart at someone you clearly argue with or feel is somehow inferior in emotional wellness, is rather cold hearted and rather offensive coming from one as well versed in mental health issues as you have presented here on these boards.  You can’t give it a break during a time of sorrow?  You must dig at an old wound between you, showing to at least me, that there is room to question your motives of proving your point by using a man who is unable to read this board and know for a fact anything said and no one here knows him?

She is the one who chose to pour her heart out in such a way, in a way that I felt was disrespectful.  She specifically wanted feedback on the experience of feeling a protectiveness towards another.  It just so happened that my organic reaction was protective of someone who could do nothing for himself.

It is, in fact, BECAUSE the man is unable to read the board that I feel so strongly protective of his state.  I feel she has disrespected his final days and pain by so obviously and blatantly describing them to an online group of strangers to use as a guinea pig example for her own ego.

So I think it shows an excellent "other side" to what the "protective reaction" can be all about.

quote:

 but she is one of the most warm hearted, even spirited, loving and humane people I have ever known and you… well… you seem very cold and unprofessional.

Isn't it the truly warm hearted who welcome and look for the good, ESPECIALLY when it's with someone who appears cold?

quote:

Even if there is some part that is not emotionally sound here, rudeness is also an aspect of life that is enhanced by good emotional health.

I do not believe I was rude- I openly, honestly, and owned my feelings and reactions.  I do feel that Indigo was disrespectful in her unnecessary portrayal of the dying father.




Lockit -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 4:52:12 PM)

Hummm... unnecessary portrayal of a dying father...  What is unnecessary?  Her expression of it all, pain, conflict?  I would say these are human expressions that need to be expressed and it is far better to express them on a message board than to retain them and hold them in to manifest in another way.  I find it also healthy to be able to come to friends on a message board and share, which many do here.  What I find unnecessary is slam dunking someone we tend to typically slam dunk in other threads, at a time when they are conflicted and struggling with something.

No one else had issue with it.

If you have some feelings about dying and how things are done... okay... you have that right and it may be something that has a meaning for you to own, discover or whatever... but imposing it upon others, especially someone you tend to flame with, is questionable at best.

Being warm hearted does not mean that one must look for the best in people, especially people who tend to jump on us.  It is always nice if we can be warm hearted enough to do so, but isn't a determination on whether we are warm or cold, but maybe a matter of boundaries.

Your guinea pig comment is further proof to me that you intended to make it hurt with your comments on this thread and further proof that you have more a problem with the op than you do with what was discused.  Nothing like kicking someone when they are in pain... but maybe that is your emotional bdsm showing... but to me.. it still seems cold.  I stand by my original comments.




cagliostro -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 5:20:51 PM)

LuckyAlbatross:
"It is funny and sad, but before i joined FetLife i was warned about LuckyAlbatross. i was told she is caustic and i should pretty much ignore her posts."- Fetlife poster, Aug 29, 2008

straight from her profile.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 5:23:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Her expression of it all, pain, conflict?

More the graphic expression of what his experience and state of being was.

I had no problem with her expressing what she felt or why she felt it.  But when she chose to share his problems and difficulties and frailties, I think that was disrespectful.  It surprises me that you find someone "warm hearted" when they decide to graphically describe another persons pain and suffering and death to a group of online strangers, especially when that person can do nothing to stop it.

quote:

No one else had issue with it.

And my feelings are invalid because no one else shares them? 

quote:

but imposing it upon others, especially someone you tend to flame with, is questionable at best.

Explain how posting my feelings is imposing on anyone? 
quote:


Being warm hearted does not mean that one must look for the best in people, especially people who tend to jump on us.  It is always nice if we can be warm hearted enough to do so, but isn't a determination on whether we are warm or cold, but maybe a matter of boundaries.

Perhaps take that into consideration when you make the judgement that I am cold. 
quote:


Your guinea pig comment is further proof to me that you intended to make it hurt with your comments on this thread and further proof that you have more a problem with the op than you do with what was discused.  Nothing like kicking someone when they are in pain... but maybe that is your emotional bdsm showing... but to me.. it still seems cold.  I stand by my original comments.

You see it as proof- I see it as HER kicking the FATHER when he was down and in pain. 

Even if I am cold, why is that a bad thing, or something to be avoided?




Lockit -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 5:28:13 PM)

LOL... well I guess we will have to agree to disagree... because we view all of this very differently.




Chi -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 5:30:50 PM)

I perhaps should not comment here, yet I feel compelled to say, be as strong as you can, but be human too. A bitter cold anguishing empty loneliness will surround your master when his father passes, denial and rejection will find their way into his thinking, anger too. You will need to understand the sorrow and conflict engulfing him if he appears distant or even insensitive, in reality it will not be directed at you but more an out casting of emotions and feelings he does not know how to handle. In time, he will return to the man you love.  Be well in both your spirit and mind.




catize -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 5:55:23 PM)

Well, no, LA is not the only one who questioned the OP’s reason for starting, and continuing the thread.  My opinion after reading it initially was that she turned a person’s death and a family’s loss into something all about her.  But I was so disgusted I didn’t read the rest of the thread until it popped on top of the forum again today.
My original opinion did not change when I read the following:
quote:

I'm His slave and yet i was sat between  Master and His son on the front seat of the family car in the entourage. I could not have asked for more.

 
A warm hearted person would be doing what she could to support those most affected by this death, rather than coming on line to bring attention to her self.  A more appropriate and seemly action would have been to seek support in private emails with her friends.





XaviersXian -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 6:01:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chi

A bitter cold anguishing empty loneliness will surround your master when his father passes



Greetings to all,

Chi, thank you, thank you for this post.  You have put names and descriptions to feelings I have had since my own father passed away in 2003. 

Slaveindigochild, please pass my condolences to your Master and his family. 

In the beginning, it feels as if the nightmare will never end, you are caught up in so much pain, and despair, and you feel as if you will never heal.  Time seems to somehow stand completely still, but, eventually, it starts moving again.  With time, the pain lessens, and you learn to deal in your own way.  I will never recover from losing my father, but I have learned to live with the fact he is no longer here, and learned to cherish the memories, not remember them with pain.  My best friend lost her mother as a child, and she said it best when she told me that the pain never goes away, the years just make the pain of their death easier to deal with.

If you need anything, please feel free to message me on the other side.

well wishes,




stella41b -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 6:39:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

A warm hearted person would be doing what she could to support those most affected by this death, rather than coming on line to bring attention to her self. A more appropriate and seemly action would have been to seek support in private emails with her friends.



I can assure you that she has been doing this as well, together with phone calls and texts.

Another thing is she has actually been offline for some time as her computer has broken down. I have been waiting to mend her computer and I am waiting because Indigo, being the warm-hearted and caring person who she is has been supporting her Master and his family.

I mean, let's take a look at this rationally. SlaveIndigoChild and her Master have been caring for his dying father. She sought to internalize the feelings she was going through by reaching out onto a message board which she feels is her spiritual home to share those feelings with other people on the boards.

Yes we did not know her Master's father and we only know SlaveIndigoChild, so obviously as a point of reference she was sharing with us her own perspective and feelings from her experiences. All what she has posted has been posted with the knowledge of and full agreement of her Master, and it was his father who has died.

Families are individual, as are the deaths of family members and also individual are the ways we all go about mourning and grieving someone. My question here is what right does anyone have to dictate to someone else how they should go through this mourning or bereavement process?

And more so here on this message board where other people are also posting intimate details of their private lives up to and including what they do in the bedroom? Does this mean that I also have the right to come into a thread and attack them for doing something I find disgusting?

Where is the line really drawn?

That is about as far as I'm prepared to write. As in the postings above, I'm prepared to let these words stand and allow others to reflect on them.




ThundersCry -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/24/2008 7:18:29 PM)

themore you are able to be there and let your master talk...as well as his family is so very...important...
 
many clam up at such times...my experience as a hospice volunteer..showed me over and over...
 
those that were able to *really* express how they are feeling as well as their fears, their thoughts etc...
 
did so much better in the long run...
 
watching death knock at someones door is never easy...we all get our turn...
 
good luck and peace be with you and yours...
 
 




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 12:33:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
My question here is what right does anyone have to dictate to someone else how they should go through this mourning or bereavement process?

Well I know I haven't done that.  I've only said she shouldn't have been so graphic and blatant about the condition of the father.  That has nothing to do with her grief.
quote:


And more so here on this message board where other people are also posting intimate details of their private lives up to and including what they do in the bedroom? Does this mean that I also have the right to come into a thread and attack them for doing something I find disgusting?

Where is the line really drawn?

When she stops writing about herself and starts writing about someone helpless and dying.




RCdc -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 1:54:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

When she stops writing about herself and starts writing about someone helpless and dying.


But seriously Em the same question again, hows that different to 90% of the posts here?
 
the.dark.




colouredin -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 3:11:50 AM)

FR

This thread seems to have lost its initial purpose, I will say that when people are grieving it does affect them its not just about the person who is ill the people that are left behind hurt too. I dont see how its innapropriate to mention it, many of us use personal experiance to explain things that they have been wondering about.

To the actual question yes I have felt very protective, i think that most of us do when our partners are hurting about something. When I am in a relationship with someone I tend to find that my emotions mimic the person I am with. It can be hard then to pull myself away from it and be the strength that they need to carry on. Its hard not to slip down into their sadness rather than maintain calmness and be something away from all that.

I feel for you hunny and I hope that you both find a way through this, sending you happy thoughts.




oceanwynds -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 4:52:27 AM)

When this thread first got posted, I thought how strange for someone to be writing this. I have seen many times posts here, when someone felt the need to express what they are doing for their Dominant, at the cost of revealing information that I would think is private. This is something I cannot do. Is it wrong? For me, yes but i live my life and not wanting to dictate to others how to live their life. When my husband was dying, it never occured to me to tell the chat rooms about his pain etc. I know he would not want that, so i protected him by not sharing with a bunch of strangers.People found out that he died, by a few close friends of mine letting him know. At that time, all that was said was, Oceanwynds husband died today. He had emphysema.  When Sir is not feeling well, I do not tell people, because of my need to protect him. Both of these men were very private people, so I would never consider talking to much about them. Also coming from the old school of doing something for another without letting others know is important to me, so I would not tell people how I am helping another. I learned decades ago to serve quietly. 





LaTigresse -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 10:55:48 AM)

For me, from the M side of the M/s, I would be very displeased with my s-type for bringing my family issues and personal dispair onto the forums in such a way. It just would not be allowed, period. But that is just me. We cannot know how the master would feel about this specific incident since he apparently does not read the forums or post on them.

Because of my personal feelings, reading the thread made me uncomfortable. However, I felt it was not for me to voice my opinion in any sort of negative way towards the OP because A. it is too personal a judgement call and B. I think the OP suffers enough without adding my snark added to the mix.

I've always liked the saying "water seeks it's own level". So, it is very possible the parties discussed, but not participating, would not mind their personal business laid out for public consumption.

Either way, it's really a non issue for me.




stella41b -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 2:32:07 PM)

This brings me back to a situation of a few weeks ago when I got involved in a situation with a suicide which took place in a rolling night shelter in London. As part of my work with a support group I was called out with a colleague to a night shelter for the homeless as staff were trying to deal with a man who was determined to take his own life. The man in question was gay, in his late thirties and dying from HIV and the effects of street homelessness and long term substance misuse issues. The staff had even managed to arrange a Palliative Care Worker for him, his resettlement case was closed as it was clear he was never going to leave the night shelter.

The main issue was that staff felt that he shouldn't be in the night shelter as it was a situation which they found stressful, and they felt it would be much better for him to die in a hospice or hospital. However the man himself wanted to die on the streets, among his friends, and wanted basically to be left alone to die where he was. It came out he was being taunted by staff over his lifestyle choices and condition and for what he was putting them through, and this is what perhaps directly related to him making the decision to end his own life. He was angry, upset, defensive, emotional, he was holding razor blades and about to slash his wrists, and we took it in turns to go into his room to try and get the razor blades off him. My colleague and I intervened when we discovered that we couldn't work out which staff he had problems with and so we left them to arrange the ambulance.

This threw up a number of issues, including resentment towards all the night shelter staff, his family who had rejected him, euthanasia and his right to die on his terms, and so on. However this became a far bigger issue than him or anyone of us involved, for we were trying to persuade a man who had maybe only weeks, or even days to live, not to take his own life. He spoke of his anger and frustration at the staff, his battle and struggle to stay alive, his fear of death and not being able to die among his friends, his personal isolation and loneliness and so on. But we noticed that he was tiring, becoming weaker, drowsier, less coherent,. and while my colleague soothed him with her words I managed to approach him, reach out, and hug him, persuading him that this was all I wanted to do. I stood there with this man in my arms, and took the razor blades from him, handing them to my colleague, just soothing him, agreeing with him, and getting him prepared emotionally for the paramedics to come in and take over. They came in, but as he was weakening they decided to take him to the nearest hospital.

The man died en route to the hospital. Apparently he had taken an overdose earlier of his prescription medication, which leaves us only to speculate and wonder why he decided to slash his wrists. I felt gutted. This was despite my previous training as a nurse, and working as a teacher and a journalist, occupations which had taught me to be able to detach my feelings and emotions and respond in a professional manner. I still felt gutted. There was even some degree of anger, someone should have checked to see that he didn't have access to his medication, someone should have handled this better, staff shouldn't have let their feelings to become involved. But you know 'should have' and 'shouldn't have' are pointless in this situation, save for learning from the experience. But this too is pointless. The man is dead, and it's unlikely that I or anyone else will ever find themselves in the same situation again. This was, and will always remain, an individual experience.

This is how I see the experiences of the OP, SlaveIndigoChild, her Master and his now deceased father, experiences which she has chosen to share with me throughout, and throughout which I have sought to provide whatever support I could, whether it be through e-mail, c-mail, over the phone. This from what I understand was never a thread about her, about her Master or even indeed about his now deceased father simply because the issues and experience are much bigger than that - this was her choosing to come onto the boards and share what is a very unique experience - the experience of a man choosing to die at home, surrounded by his family, and on how everyone responded and coped with these issues.

Therefore to me this is very much a thread about death, about loss, separation, bereavement, and mourning and how one responds to such an event.

Death is very much a taboo subject. Even though it is a subject that we all frequently think about, consider, it is still very much a subject which arouses fear, which makes us feel uncomfortable, uneasy, insecure, for we have no way of knowing how to cope with the finality of death and those final hours of someone's life. Indeed there is an attempt to sanitize the experience, to try and remove the intimacy, and to try somehow to deal with the impact of someone leaving our lives forever never to return.

When we cry over someone's death who are we crying for? Are we crying for them? Do we cry over our feelings of what they have had to suffer? But do we not also cry for ourselves? Do we not also suffer the heartache, feelings of loss and anguish at such a permanent and final separation? Is that grief selfless, selfish, or both?

This is where I addressed LA in her posting and felt that she was dictating on the proper manner for Indigo to grieve. It was the use of the construction 'should have' and 'shouldn't have', and this though her own personal feeling and opinion still stands as a statement which declares Indigo wrong for what she did. My point is that this thread didn't come out of any feelings of altruism on Indigo's part, nor any attempt to massage her own ego. There was never any choice to allow for such altruism as this, like every other death which occurs, is a truly unique and human experience. The issues were far bigger than Indigo, her Master or his deceased father, this wasn't something which was planned, but an event which simply happened, which everyone had to cope with in their own way and to which everyone had to respond to. It goes without saying that looking at this from the outside it may not be what we would choose to do, but then again if something like this happened to us and we lost someone in our lives would we have the freedom of choice? The way I see it the only situation where you would have such a choice would be in the event of a judicial execution about to be carried out on someone sentenced to death.

I am writing this posting having spoken not long back to SlaveIndigoChild and her Master and we have discussed this thread, I can reassure everyone that all what she posted was done with the full knowledge and approval of her Master, and she is aware of this posting which has also been discussed and therefore it can be seen as a posting we have come up with together.

She has also asked me to pass on that everyone here can post freely what or how they feel on this thread, that she has no intention of defending herself and she requests that those who have issues with her and what she posts kindly wait until she has returned to the boards and take up such issues on other threads.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Feeling very protective (10/25/2008 3:37:15 PM)

Just because a master says it's ok does not make it suddenly full of cherries and butterflies.

Again, I think it's pretty strange and disrespectful to be ok talking about a persons death in such detail with strangers and that you seem completely comfortable doing it with multiple people.  That is and always has been my only issue with the posting.

You choose to interpret her posts here as some desire to discuss the grieving process- which I also find odd because nothing of her original post was about that, it was in fact specifically focused on having a protective reaction over others.  It just so happened that in the process of posting what she did, she initiated a protective response on MY part- and suddenly I'm the "bad guy" because of that, but she's nearly a saint because she started it first? 

It's actually a fairly common choice in my family's history to choose to die at home and at peace rather than surrounded by doctors and prolonging pain.  If she or anyone else wants to actually discuss how to grieve and the entire general process of grieving, we should go enjoy doing that on Off Topic.

But graphically describing the circumstances of anothers death to a bunch of online strangers just to make a point about feeling protective?  That's just not something I will condone.  If you somehow twist that into trying to prevent someone from "grieving" then that's your choice.  I don't see a connection or how not sharing that particular information will somehow cause her even more pain.




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