Palin and Joe Sixpack.

Palin and Joe Sixpack. (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 6:11:59 AM)
There was an American female scholar (didn't catch her name)on the BBC World Service today lamenting about the Sarah Palin and Joe Sixpack phenomena and the need for many Americans to elevate mediocrity to a status their politicians should try to dumb down to. This was followed by several interviews with ordinary Americans who were admirers of Palin who seemed to be saying the same thing, she is like us, she talks like us and she knows nothing like us. Afterwards, the scholar said such people are a national embarrassment and said, in most countries people want their leaders to be more intelligent and better educated than themselves. She also said she can't understand why American politicians kow tow to this lowering the intelligent debate bar and pretending to be stupid so not to let the willfully ignorant feel disenfranchised. Has she a point or was she just being elitist?

LadyEllen -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 6:23:37 AM)
This is the problem with one vote per citizen democracy I'm afraid, when its high ideals come up against the fact that the vast majority dont understand or at least have no interest in, the intricacies of the socio-economic system and its political correlations. But then its been interesting these last few weeks to discover how many of those we look to as understanding this system on our behalf, dont seem to have much more idea than the lowest common denominator in the population as a whole. E

bipolarber -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 6:29:04 AM)
"Elitist": the new "commie." Beats me why people think that someone who actually knows what the hell they are doing is a threat. Tell me, when someone takes their car down to the shop, do you want someone 'just like you" working on your $23,000 car, or do you want someone who has trained themselves for the job? Or how about a Doctor? Do you want a "Joe Sixpack" giving you that apendectomy, or would you rather have the "elitist" guy who went through med school and years of training cutting on you? Why is leadership in government anything different?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 6:39:29 AM)
An academic is irritated that ordinary citizens formulate their own opinions instead of taking their marching orders from academia? Imagine that. Talking heads and so called scholars are a dime a dozen, and I could care less what Dr. Jane WineandCheese from the Center for the Continuing Studies of Why America Sucks thinks about ordinary voters.

Venatrix -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 6:51:20 AM)
FR - I've lived in the US for 32 years and have seen this played out over and over again on many levels: politics, advertising, news, television (which I no longer even watch). There are some notable exceptions to the following, but as a whole, I've never seen a nation of people so wilfully ignorant as the United States. It's one thing not to know, and quite another to take pride in not knowing. If I could leave, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Irishknight -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:11:11 AM)
I am always amazed that the so called intellectuals tend to get up in arms every time the "lower class" disagrees with them. If they would look at what they've done to our education system with their pompous, self righteous crap, they would notice that our institutes of "higher learning" are falling behind. The blame falls on the shoulders of arrogant windbags with delusions of superiority that call themselves academics. They need to spend more time teaching young people than pushing political agendas. If the middle class is mediocre, what are these geniuses who are failing to teach them? Less than mediocre.

Venatrix -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:14:23 AM)
First, one has to have the desire to be taught. I believe the old expression about not being able to teach a pig to sing applies here.

Irishknight -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:18:11 AM)
The problem with that is that these "superior thinkers" are too busy politicking to teach thosewith the desire to learn. They need to be in their classes teaching the courses that students are there to learn. Leave the politics to the poli sci teacher, the biology to the biology professors and the calculus to people who don't get massive headaches from it. Until the "academics" in America show themselves to be anything above mediocre, they have no room to put down the middle class or anyone else.

patwi -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:29:32 AM)
I don't think it's that "academics" are putting down the middle/lower class, I think it's that a segment of the middle/lower class seem to be openly stating "We don't want no one smarter than us telling us what to do."

Venatrix -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:30:23 AM)
I spent many years in academia - yes - teaching at the university level. I don't know what your qualifications are, but I can attest that the vast number of academics are incredibly dedicated, often giving up several hours a week of their personal time to help students succeed. Again, the student has to want to succeed and there are not nearly as many of them as you would think. A goodly number of students simply want to pick up their "A" grade, yet do only a fraction of the work necessary to achieve it.

Dnomyar -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:40:19 AM)
Venatrix. Where would you go? America has it's faults. Name a country that dose'nt. If we are that bad then why do so many who say they hate America want to come to live in it. How many people in this country or any other country have started their own Utopias. Name one that has survived. We are'nt perfect but I don't see anyone else better.

Venatrix -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:49:23 AM)
Here's a good example of the dumbing down of the US: I was just looking at the home page of my local newspaper sfgate.com. Now, bear in mind that the San Francisco Bay Area is home to some pretty savvy people. The home page is laid out in sections as follows: First - big headlines. Okay, no problem there. Then, reader opinion (huh?); following that, in this order, are headlines for: Bay Area and State; Photos and Multimedia; Entertainment; Sports; Food and Wine; Business; Nation and World. This isn't a tabloid we're talking about here. It's supposed to be the best local newspaper in an urban, (supposedly) well educated area. Nation and World headlines come after Multimedia, Entertainment, Sports, and Food and Wine. I rest my case.

Venatrix -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:51:32 AM)
Raymond, I can think of several that I'd rather live in. If their immigration laws weren't as draconian as ours, I'd go. We can take this private, if you like.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:53:42 AM)
quote: If I could leave, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Why can't you? Last time I checked; there were planes, boats, and busses leaving the country at all hours of the day. quote: First, one has to have the desire to be taught. I believe the old expression about not being able to teach a pig to sing applies here. I went to college because I desired a degree. I didn't desire indoctrination, and that is what a large number of academics are dedicated towards accomplishing. The old expression, "Those who can't....teach." applies there.

missAnn77 -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 7:56:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Venatrix. Where would you go? America has it's faults. Name a country that dose'nt. If we are that bad then why do so many who say they hate America want to come to live in it. How many people in this country or any other country have started their own Utopias. Name one that has survived. We are'nt perfect but I don't see anyone else better. I usually don't chime in on political stuff but i agree with Dnomyar, and as a perspective teacher is it really that hopeless in finding students that actually care? I certainly hope that more people would want to care about the up coming election and take more pride in being American no matter where you are from as long as you're a citizen. This is one of the best countries in my own opinion to live in especially if you are a woman or a disabled person, we have more rights than what I've been told by others from different countries. Agree or disagree I still believe we have an important role to play in being responsible for our actions and the company we keep. Miss Ann

meatcleaver -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 8:01:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen This is the problem with one vote per citizen democracy I'm afraid, when its high ideals come up against the fact that the vast majority dont understand or at least have no interest in, the intricacies of the socio-economic system and its political correlations. Every country has people that think being dumb is the smartest thing around, I think this scholar was just as angry at the politicians for playing the game. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But then its been interesting these last few weeks to discover how many of those we look to as understanding this system on our behalf, dont seem to have much more idea than the lowest common denominator in the population as a whole. Which is a good reason for Joe Sixpack and our very own Lagerman to stop thinking being dumb is smart.

bluepanda -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 8:07:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Venatrix. Where would you go? America has it's faults. Name a country that dose'nt. You weren't speaking to me, but I've got an answer anyway. It's not a question of finding a country that has no faults - it's a question of finding someplace that has different faults, a set of faults that you don't find as bothersome as America's faults. It's pretty much the same thing as finding a partner for a relationship, really. quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar If we are that bad then why do so many who say they hate America want to come to live in it. Who are those people? I've never heard of anyone who hated America but wanted to come live here anyway. I've heard of a lot of people who wanted to live here and came from the same country as a lot of people who hate America, but that's not the same thing.

meatcleaver -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 8:09:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix Here's a good example of the dumbing down of the US: I was just looking at the home page of my local newspaper sfgate.com. Now, bear in mind that the San Francisco Bay Area is home to some pretty savvy people. America has more than its fair share of world class intellectuals, the problem is why they aren't listened to by the majority. I guess, I know the answer, its the same as Britain, a culture with a disdain for serious thinkers but even in Britain, there have been politicians that have told ordinary members of the public to grow up when they've seemed proud of their ignorance.

TheHeretic -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 8:10:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Venatrix FR - I've lived in the US for 32 years ... If I could leave, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Lack of freedom and economic opportunity, back home? There are plainly marked exits all over the place. Perhaps it has something to do with our not having a historical monarchy. Proper respect for our "betters" isn't ingrained into the national character. Quite the opposite. Elitism raises hackles wherever you go, and the reflex of rebellion against it transcends all political lines. It's also best not to confuse a rejection of pseudo-sophistication, with stupidity. Doing that is just as foolish as trying to deny how many of the wine sippers are nowhere near as smart as they think they are.

meatcleaver -> RE: Palin and Joe Sixpack. (10/13/2008 8:14:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Perhaps it has something to do with our not having a historical monarchy. Proper respect for our "betters" isn't ingrained into the national character. Quite the opposite. Elitism raises hackles wherever you go, and the reflex of rebellion against it transcends all political lines. It's also best not to confuse a rejection of pseudo-sophistication, with stupidity. Doing that is just as foolish as trying to deny how many of the wine sippers are nowhere near as smart as they think they are. America is as class ridden as any other country and in Europe monarchies aren't and never have been noted for their intellectual capabilities and anyway, the British monarchy hasn't had power for the best part of 400 years. The colonists rebeled against the British parliament, not the monarchy, the founding fathers knew who was in charge, even if many Americans don't. There is a difference between wine sippers and thinkers, I think that is clear to all thinking people.

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