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RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 12:10:47 AM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline 		I took a few minutes to post a quick reply before I left for work this morning. Personally I felt that in agreeing with the opening poster, it was pretty clear that I disagreed with those folks who disagreed with the OP and didn't see too much reason to go back through four pages and quote a whole bunch of people (or single one person out unfairly!).

My interactions have not been online only, however since the topic was about online conversation (email) and I had a few similar examples, I decided to point them out. I have talked with and met others who did not fit into that sort of a horrible mold I described above, but it seems to be a very common practice to excuse that sort of behavior from a dominant even when it comes in the very early 'just starting to communicate' stage.

As to why anyone's name in particular was in that little (in reply to xyz) blurb at the bottom of my post, all of them were made with that PostReply button down there in the corner. I don't use the reply/quote links on individual posts unless I'm going to quote someone specific. The button at the bottom places the name of the last person to post to the thread in the (in reply to xyz) entry.

< Message edited by CuriousPuppy -- 12/12/2005 12:36:42 AM >

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 1:02:59 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servingwench80

I first started thinking about this when I was emailing back and forth with a person that I met at a munch. It began when he said that he expected me to reply promptly to emails, but he may not be able to reply as promptly because he was busy, life issues, etc. My first thought then was "What, and you don't think I'm busy?"
Then quite a few emails later, with another issue entirely, he said:


What rules apply to the sub do not necessarily apply to the Dom, and if you don't like it or want to argue about it, are you "submissive"?


Am I wrong in thinking that this should not be true? I want a Dom who can teach me and help me grow. If I am held to a higher standard than he is (in anything or everything), and I achieve that higher standard, how then is he able to teach me anymore? Am I wrong in thinking that the DOM should be held to a higher standard than the sub? And not just because he has accepted the responsibility for guiding/growing another person (assuming this is part of the relationship). Should a Dom not try to be an example for their sub?

After a few casual comments like these, I just got the impression that he wanted to sit back and relax while the sub does all the work. Am I being too hard on him? I'm not saying the sub shouldn't have to put effort into things, but obviously no relationship can work if it is one-sided.

As an analogy, I'll go back to the thoughts I had in high school. Should teachers not try to set an example for their students? Why is there a double standard? If a student is late for class, there are penalties. If a student turns in an assignment late, there are penalties. But if a teacher is late for class, or takes a long time to get papers/tests graded and returned, there are no penalties. Does this seem wrong to anyone else?

Granted, this is a trivial example, as was the emailing issue, but it's the general idea that I'm concerned with. Obviously the exact same rules really don't apply to Doms and subs. If the Dom is trying to teach the sub punctuality, and the Dom is late for one reason or another, no one expects the Dom to get a spanking from the sub. But honestly, who is going to put any effort into punctuality lessons from someone who is late themselves?

SHOULD there be a double standard? Is it fair or right for a Dom to expect more from their sub than they expect from themselves?

I generally agree with you.

However, because D/s operates on a principle of an unequal control dynamic, there are many instances of what applies for the sub does not necessarily apply for the Dom. For eg, if I want my girl naked at all times while inside the home, that doesn't mean I will be! I just see that as my right of ownership and the one who makes the rules - and hers is to obey them.

But setting standards for behaviour is a whole other matter. As the one in control, I see much of my everyday role as leading by example as well as by command. Again for eg, if I tell her I'll ring at 6pm, I don't mean 6.45ish or even 6.05. With allowances for different clocks, a minute or two either way is acceptable and I'll be embarrassed if I'm later than that. Subs pick up on that quickly and I'm not so understanding if she doesn't reciprocate with the same punctuality.

There's plenty of grey area between what's a rule or what's a standard but I won't reprimand her for anything I'm guilty of myself - especially general behaviour. And I'm very conscious of my own behaviour!

I think along the lines of everyday vanilla situations. If someone's child is an ill-disciplined, noisy brat, I tend to look no further than who's raising him/her and usually am not surprised at what I see. If a pet dog won't stop barking and makes a nuisance of itself up and down the street etc, again, one close look at the owner usually answers why....

And so it is with *MY* sub. If I want her replying asap with emails, I'll do it *FIRST*! And if she's not yet mine, I won't actually request her to reply immediately, I'll just be my normal self and see how she responds from my actions - a little test if you like....

I think this dom from the OP does have unreasonable expectations given that actions always speak louder then words! The thing to really decide is, given that this is how he "leads" on small things like email, do you really want to follow at a relationship level? I'd think the questioning of your submissiveness to cover his own lack of principles and leadership should decide that for you....

Focus.

(in reply to servingwench80)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 3:40:45 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Puppy,

Thank you for expanding on your original post.

The thing with communication is that you may know exactly what you wish to say and think that you have said it very clearly. However, if your audience does not understand you, then the communication has not worked and clarification is needed.

In D/s relationships double standards exists, because that is the relationship structure that has been set up. But a double standard is not the same thing as poor communication. My Lord and I communicate very well, but there exists a significant double standard in our relationship and always has even before I became owned. When my Lord and I were first getting to know each other, there was an expectation that I would email him everyday and respond to his emails promptly because it pleased him. The consequence of not doing that could very well have been that he decided we were not compatible in a relationship. However, my Lord expressed himself much differently than the OP described. He simply said, this pleases me, and watched to see if I would make this an expectation so that I would please him. It is the same exact scenario, but communicated much differently.

I do not think that the expectation in the OP was necessarily wrong if they were considering a relationship, but the manner in which it was expressed was over-stepping their bounds and presumed too much. The Dominant would probably have gotten a much more favorable reaction if he had said, “Prompt responses to my emails please me; however I have little time to send emails.” But it appears that this Dominant's style of motivating behaviors is not compatible with the OP and its better they find out in the beginning than after a commitment has been made.


Knight's kyra

(in reply to CuriousPuppy)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 4:06:50 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy

I took a few minutes to post a quick reply before I left for work this morning. Personally I felt that in agreeing with the opening poster, it was pretty clear that I disagreed with those folks who disagreed with the OP and didn't see too much reason to go back through four pages and quote a whole bunch of people (or single one person out unfairly!).

My interactions have not been online only, however since the topic was about online conversation (email) and I had a few similar examples, I decided to point them out. I have talked with and met others who did not fit into that sort of a horrible mold I described above, but it seems to be a very common practice to excuse that sort of behavior from a dominant even when it comes in the very early 'just starting to communicate' stage.

As to why anyone's name in particular was in that little (in reply to xyz) blurb at the bottom of my post, all of them were made with that PostReply button down there in the corner. I don't use the reply/quote links on individual posts unless I'm going to quote someone specific. The button at the bottom places the name of the last person to post to the thread in the (in reply to xyz) entry.


I would like to thank you for clarifying what you said. Since reading this, I have again, gone back and read your original post and I can now understand what you were disagreeing with.

(in reply to CuriousPuppy)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 8:03:41 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Thinking about CuriousPuppy’s post made me consider this topic more in depth. Is the OP’s question, “Is it acceptable to have double standards in a D/s relationship when it comes to behavior or when it comes to effective communication?”

I have to admit that the first time I read the post, I consider it from the behavior standpoint only and in that case my opinion is that, yes, double standards do exist and are acceptable. However, CuriousPuppy took a different approach and appeared to be of the opinion that the double standard question applied to the ability to communicate effectively. I do not think that there should be a double standard on effective communication, i.e. all involved in the relationship should share an equal responsibility for this. However, the behavior that they both use to communicate effectively will not be equal or the same.

For example, my Lord requires that I send an email every morning and every night. My Lord rarely will send me an email in response. This is an acceptable double standard due to the structure of our relationship. Now, the content of those emails is left entirely up to me. Many simply say, “Good morning/night, my Lord”. Since I am more comfortable communicating through written word, a lot of the emails are a very in depth sharing of thoughts and feelings. My Lord does not respond to these either for the most part. He is more comfortable talking to share his thoughts and feelings, so the communication occurs verbally for him and written for me in many cases. Different behaviors to communicate but we each have an equal responsibility in making sure that effective communication has occurred.

Another perspective on the OP’s question, “Are double standards acceptable in a D/s relationship when it comes to emotional investment?”

This is very dependent on the people involved. I know that I could not be in an M/s relationship with someone who was not as emotionally invested as me. For others, a mismatch in emotional investment can be satisfying and rewarding.

I want to extend my appreciation to CuriousPuppy whose post caused me to think more critically about this thread. I always enjoy looking at things from several different aspects but it sometimes requires thoughts from others to make that happen.

Knight's kyra



< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 12/12/2005 8:07:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 9:09:02 AM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		That is an intriguing twist on the question. Like Kyra, I believe double standards are completely acceptable in behavior, provided that is the exchange that was originally agreed upon (directly or indirectly) by all involved. However I strongly feel a lopsided mismatch in communication would result in weakening any relationship in the long term. For myself, it would not develop in the first place.

Is unequal responsibility for effective communication acceptable to me? No. Is it acceptable for some? Probably.

I do think Kyra's point about communicating differently is an important one though. I typically write longer and more frequent emails than people I might be involved with. That is my choice because I am comfortable with that form of communication. A Dominant friend/play partner of mine might be considered lacking in the communication department. Upon closer look, he simply communicates more through actions than words. It also about the time and place. Over time I have discovered there are particular times of the day he is "better" on the phone and particular settings he is more open in real time. I do take more responsibility to initiate these REAL communication sessions because it is a strength I have. His role is to be open to that and to participate in discussions he may not always like or feel comfortable with, because I have requested it. My role is to accept a "that is not something we will discuss" on the rare occassions I hear it.

Kyra asked, "are double standards acceptable in a D/s relationship when it comes to emotional investment?" I think they are often inevitable. One thing I have to remind myself of is I am not responsible for the emotional investment of another person. I can not control their reactions to me - I can only practice my own emotional honesty. And vice versa.

In the past six months I have found myself in several situations where the other party became more invested than me. I can not force myself to be more invested because I am fond of the person. I should not fake the investment to avoid hurting the person. Both people have the option to accept the situation for what it currently is -- then continue in it or not.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 9:16:40 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		We, too, expect our servant to tell us where she is and what she is doing. She posts us several times a day, even if it is just a short note that says "leaving for work" in the subject line, with nothing in the body.

Occasionally, she writes in more detail, and if it is something pressing, or something that is bothering her, one of us will typically take a moment to respond.

However, we told her that we -enjoy- receiving her messages, and like knowing where she is at all times -- especially since she isn't living with us yet. That being said, we don't respond to every single message she sends, though we pay attention to every one. We didn't just leave her hanging, though. We told her that we liked knowing where she was -and- that we wouldn't be responding to every single email. We thought it was important that she know that we are paying attention to even the small details -- whether or not we expressly tell -her- what we are thinking.

So in that sense, I would say that we, also, see there being a double standard in terms of the balance of power, but that communication (especially in a situation like we are in, where the goal is for our servants to become part of our household) needs to be balanced, and everyone needs to understand what is happening, even if we don't always share why.

In terms of emotional investment, I think that if I am doing my job properly, my servant(s) will become very attached to me. I cherish them, as well. I tend not to "weigh and measure" things like commitment. I am open and honest about my expectations, and give our servant(s) the opportunity to examine their own feelings. If they are not committed to service with us, keeping them bound to us will not serve either of us. If the lack of commitment comes from a lack of understanding, then my first priority is to make clear what is clouded, so that they can re-evaluate. If they are truly unhappy or are unable to commit to us or to anything, then binding them to us by demands and punishments will not endear us to them, and will not encourage their service, so why would we persist at that point?

For myself, I won't -make- a commitment until I am certain that I am ready to have this person in my life, cherishing hir for whatever xhe is and whatever xhe brings to the table. If I am not ready to accept that, I will not begin, since that is, to me, ethically wrong. I don't weigh and measure this, either, other than to know whether I am able to commit myself to a path or not. The texture and "weight" of the path will change from day to day. My commitment is to keep going until the Universe lets me know that this bond we have shaped is now meant to go elsewhere.

Is this a double standard? I don't know. I only know that it works for us, and that the respect between owned and owner has done nothing to diminish either our servants level of service or our own responsibility to those who serve us.

LZ

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 12/12/2005 9:26:09 AM >

_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 11:31:55 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

The double standard is because the dom sets the rules for the sub. That is fundamental to D/s as others have said. The sub wants to and is expected to follow his rules. The major aspect of trust we all talk about is that both must know that his rules will be followed. She will not feel satisfied if she thinks she can break his rules.

For instance, what if a master has a core rule that his sub not talk to other doms about certain things and she breaks it? She has broken the fundamental basis of the relationship and the trust is seriously weakened or destroyed entirely. It is not only the act of disobeying her master, but she has damaged what the relationship is based upon.

If the dom does something “wrong” he has not broken the fundamental D/s basis of the relationship.

ExSteel


Generally i agree with You Sir, but this time i have a few minor points of disagreement. IMO, there is no submission till the collar is on -- in real life IMO -- and what comes before is an exploration with open, honest communication so that both parties can form the necessary bond. If a Dom asked me to me available at 4pm, every day, i'd attempt to accomodate; if i needed to hear His voice before i went to sleep i'd expect Him to call briefly at night.

(BTW, evening phone calls are one way to weed out married men.)

Once the collar is on, yes, the example You gave of speaking of intimate matters with other Doms is a serious violation. It is conceivable that if i were having an issue with my One, i might seek the counsel of a Dom or Master friend; but if my One had forbidden such a thing i would not do it.

Finally, i disagree that the Dom cannot break a rule and strain or break the trust of a D/s relationship. There are certain things i need from my One, such as High Monogamy. If He stepped out on me, i would end the relationship (probably; under some circumstances we might be able to get past the betrayal).

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 12/12/2005 11:32:35 AM >

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 11:40:06 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

Keep in mind too, someone may suggest prompt reply to emails, as a way of testing a sub... how honest are they about serving? submitting? Is it just a game? Setting little tasks like this can be incredibly helpful in seperating the chaff from the hay so to speak. For example, for no ryhmye or reason, I'll message a sub and ask that he finds out how many litres of water it would take to fill 74.32 cubic metres... how readily he completes this task, and without questioning why I requested such a task, and just does it, is a fairly good indication this boy is wanting to please, wanting to be trained, wanting to serve, wanting to win my favour and is willing to trust my judgement and find out the information I request. The reason why I wanted the info is mute, the fact he willingly found it is the clincher.

Jasmyn


With all due respect Ma'am, i would not continue a relationship if i detected any gamesmanship on the part of the Dom or Master. i am just too f**king old to play games; i do not lie, so if You want to know something, just ask me. i'll answer truthfully and fully unless it is a topic i'm not yet comfortable discussing.

candystripper

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 11:41:48 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		I don’t have a problem with what you said. As others noted earlier, this thread became blurred between courteous social practices and D/s structure. It was my fault as much as others for bringing the D/s element in. I thought I would let it wind down instead of replying, but since you commented, I admit you have a good point.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 11:47:27 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

As for my searching, candystripper, I'm searching for lots of things but maybe not in the sense you seem to have intended. Why would being in a fulfilling relationship of any flavor extinguish the search for new ideas and insights; new acquaintances and friendships and opportunities and challenges and fun? I suppose that might happen to some people but it sounds very small and sad to me.

Noah


i quite agree with You; all our lives, people will enter (and sadly, leave) our lives as friends, to be treasured and embraced and loved. These people enrich our lives and pose no threat to the D/s bond with a submissive or slave.

BTW, TY for accepting my apology; i accept Yours but it was not needed

candystripper

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 12:00:49 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

Forgive my observation but reading your posts, they do come across to the reader as angry and aggressive.

fldrkhorse


Wow...what a thing to say. i don't have a clue what you're referring to; could you email a few posts that struck you as "angry and agressive? i would consider it a great favor. i am neiher angry nor aggressive, so naturally i would want to change the idiom or manner of my posts to better reflect my true meaning.

candystripper

(in reply to fldrkhorse)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 12:06:09 PM   
candystripper


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Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

*giggles* candystripper,

He may speak truths, but he is not a gentle man *g* screams of agony can always be heard from his bedroom or his dungeon.

Knight's kyra


But krya, He is always a complete gentleman to me; i am just becoming His friend.

candystripper

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/12/2005 3:46:25 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

(BTW, evening phone calls are one way to weed out married men.)


I don't understand this- evening phone calls?- wouldnt that be most likey when the Guy is home from work? and if home wouldnt it be harder to call if he were married and wife is more apt to walk in and overhear or ask " who are you talking to"

I always thought it was the Guys who would only call during the day while at work. Safer b/c no wife around. no phone numbers to show up on bill
puzzled

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 3:49:18 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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You write, "SHOULD there be a double standard? Is it fair or right for a Dom to expect more from their sub than they expect from themselves?"

And then, and I have to say it makes me chuckle, a response you receive states, "It blows my mind the number of women who grow up and want their own real life Ken to play to 'dom' to their Barbie ... yes it is entirely appropiate for a dominant to set the rules...if you want to call the shots of a relationship become the dominant...if not, then submit... it really is that black and white."

-------

Let me just say that as a submissive, it has been a continuing real life and intellectual question for me of how to negotiate for oneself from the bottom. On one level, of course the simplest of levels, Jasmyn is right, the power dynamic is "black and white," and "it is entirely appropiate for a dominant to set the rules." On the other hand, if the Dominant wants a real relationship to their sub or slave, something more complete and involving than ordering around some underling, than the whole "black and white" component goes out the window and is, IMO, best replaced with a dominant philosophy that is adjustable and connected to the sub.

Any sensible DOM knows that they are NOT exempted being a good person (conscientious, trustworthy, reliable, understanding, empathetic, etc.) because they hold the power seat. In fact, most respected DOMs that I have met do have very high standards for themselves.

So, I think it is entirely within your perogative as a sub to question a DOM's conduct, behavior, values, rules, or expectations. It then becomes incumbent on the DOM to explain, justify, and establish his or her position. If the DOM is not willing to do this and merely plays the "you are my slave" card or the "my way or the highway" card, then you as the sub are left to deal with everything yourself and you have no effective outlet for either constructive dissent, conflicted feelings, or the internal sense you may have about being mistreated. In such a case, I can only think things will get worse and worse for the you, because in the end the DOM does not really care about you or have a connection to who in fact you are behind the D/S role you play.

If, though, you communicate will with your DOM, the odds are they will be responsive to you. In other words, if you start the discourse, it will lead to a type of negotiation wherein of course the DOM will have final say. So, I suggest you simply say to your DOM, "I have trouble with the fact that you expect me to reply promptly to your communications, but you on the other hand can simply reply to my own any time you wish. I know I am supposed to accept your authority, but this dynamic makes me feel unimportant and unvalued. Is there anything we can do to make us both happier about this arrangement?"

I think such a statement effectively puts the ball back in your DOM's court, and you have not been disrepectful or unreasonable. Futhermore, you're not keeping things to yourself, which is something most DOM's don't want their subs to do. DOM's want you to open up (and in your case, promptly.)

As for double standards, don't you just love it when the Dom's say, "O yes, of course there is a double standard. We are the DOMs." When a DOM relies on this fallback position in a negotiation, though, I think their authority is near the baseline low it can go in a D/S relationship. Its tantamount to saying, "I can do this because I can." This is a poor position for anyone in authority and its the equivalent of just pulling rank (I am the teacher, I am the parent, I am the boss, etc.) as their only means to win a conflict resolution.

Here is what I think. If a Dom does not make you feel submissive and satified and if a DOM does not inspire you, and if on top of this the DOM plays the authority card, then well you've pretty much reached the d/s bottom. Here you are in a relationship with lifeless synergy. If you break such a relationship off, don't for a second believe that you were "not submissive enough." Don't let the DOM tranfer the blame onto you. No, just realize it was the wrong DOM for you.

To my mind the synergy of a D/S relationship involves no double standards whatsoever. Both the DOM and SUB are responsible for bringing their own powers and energies to the table. As a sub, this means you need to be proactive too, which is a bit counter intuitive, but when you are proactive --- you are in fact helping the relationship and the DOM. If the Dom is unresponsive to you being proactive, it would seem to me you have a bad match.


(in reply to servingwench80)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 4:58:51 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		There is and should be a doubble standard n a D/s relationship, if i want to sit reading and my master says on the bed slave your ass up, i better obey, even if i am not horney or even if my ass is sore and the anal sex he do to pleese himself hurt me, i grit my teth and bear it and end up whit a path on the head and a good girl, i can not say the same, i am horney, fuck me, i can not even pleese myself whitout his premission. The same as if he feel sadistic, grabs a whip and says up against the wall, even if i am not horny and it give no exitement, only pain, i can not say no, and when he says be home before that and that time, eat this, do this, be polite to him, i can only say Yes Master and do it, while i must beg him to do things i want him to do and he can say yes or no, becouse he own me.

But when i meet a Dom online, even if i try to be polite to every Dom, unless Master give this Dom some control over me or he is training me, while i am required to be polite, i am not required to use all of my time to talk to somone. When a Dom first meets a submissive, he meets the man or the woman and only when they have some dynamic in place do they become Dom and sub and the doubble standards becomes right.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 5:26:42 AM   
DeepWaters


Posts: 118
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		Id have to agree... that is a double standard and therefor not good especially when the relationship dynamic is just getting started.

and yet I can see some logic to a double standard....I dont want a girl that thinks she can hit me..just because shes mad at me...Im the one handing out discipline...that was a double standard agreed upon for the happiness and contentment of both parties

and Ive run into enough immature girls that I certainly dont hold to them to the same high standards I hold myself to...I hold the to a different set of standards...certainly consistant standards but a different set...

that being said...my hard limits include dishonesty and disingenuiness as I dont want anyone in my life that feels that a lack of integrity is just a personality quirk ;)

my unasked for $0.02
DW

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 5:43:56 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Dear nephandi,

I would not counsel a sub to think everything is negotiable and mood-dependent all the time. Such a state of affairs would be truly hellish, especially for the DOM. But, the thematic question here is, "What is a sub to do when she's unhappy." What are the constructive options? How does one achieve harmony between the DOM and SUB on what I would call the "larger policy levels?"

Well, my answer is to open a negotiation to achieve a long lasting, rewarding flow of D/S with clear lines of authority and submission. I say it is within a sub's rights to open such a negotiation. I say its up to a DOM to hear a sub out and consider what she says. A little garden variety relationship work between a Dom and Sub can help solve and avoid problems, alleviate conflict, and fertilize the soil of closer intimacy. (Assuming the they want intimacy, which may not be the case.)

Its important for a sub to know this, else she feel the only alternative is to suffer in grudging, powerless silence --- the kind of suffering that isolates and leads one to withdrawl, which is not something any Dom would want to happen.

It doesn't do a DOM any good to drive away a sub or have the sub run away and then in the end conclude, "she just wasn't submissive." The proof is in the pudding, its not in the divine right to the top half of the double standard.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 5:53:48 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello All,
For me there is indeed a double standard in our house.
We like it, and expect it to be that way though.
My lives focus is behaving like a good slave, woman, mother, and worker. My main objective is to honor my Master at all times, make my Master comfortable, be his helpmate, keep him satisfied, happy, horny and healthy, and to take good care of our home and family (vanilla and lifestyle). This means, at all times, my wants and choices are second in my actions.
My Master's focus is leading us with honor. He does this by providing guidance, instruction, mental, physical, and financial support.

Does this mean he does not meet my needs? No, it means he not only takes care of all my needs, but he also strives to keep me happy, healthy, well loved and gives me many of the things I desire.

Him being in charge works for us as we both work at pleasing each other.
Where He ends I begin, and where I end He carries me.

Does this mean he storms around like some evil lazy dictator? No, it does not. To be a good Master is a lot of work and responsibility.
Master Rick is one of the most affectionate, compassionate, intelligent, understanding, and sadistic men I've ever met. To me he's more like King Author. It's about chivalry, honor, responsibility, strength, respect, and love.
There are those Doms that do indeed use a sub like a workhorse and give little back in return. There are also subs that seem to enjoy the servitude dynamic of this type of relationship.
I say choose wisely when you think you've reached the point you'd choose to belong to someone. Once you agree to them having control you want that to be on a path you agree with.
If you choose poorly and are disappointed with the balance can you live with the contract you signed and keep your word? Till you feel comfortable saying yes, you should not belong to someone and give your will completely as their sub/slave.
As in any relationship, vanilla or not, you need to find someone with similar expectations, desires & goals. I think this very necessary in finding a Master and achieving peace and balance that works for you.

This Dom you mention set a rude example in my opinion as well.

I agree you should lead by example and this guy set a poor one.

Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to servingwench80)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Double standard for Doms & subs? - 12/19/2005 7:06:40 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Thinking about CuriousPuppy’s post made me consider this topic more in depth. Is the OP’s question, “Is it acceptable to have double standards in a D/s relationship when it comes to behavior or when it comes to effective communication?”



To me, yes. People don’t communicate the same way or behave the same way. To me, the dominant gets more latitude in regards to those things.

quote:


Another perspective on the OP’s question, “Are double standards acceptable in a D/s relationship when it comes to emotional investment?”


Just like with the first question I think people move at different paces, I don’t think that a double standard in terms of emotions is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it requires a faith in and knowledge of the dominants ethics and belief system (hell without the double standard I think that’s important).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 100
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