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Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:06:05 PM   
softness


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From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Watch this ... because its fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOrafSpDmN4&feature=related

Here is a big chunk from wiki-wonderland ...

quote:


Pansexual is a sexual orientation characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction ... basically a pansexual is blind to gender and makes judgements based on levels of attraction for someone (whether they be Male, female, or at any point on the spectrum in between.

The terms "pansexual" and "bisexual" are not mutually exclusive. Pansexuality is inclusive of bisexuality (attraction to both males and females) but additionally includes attraction to other genders and sexes such as those identifying as transgender, genderqueer, bigender, intersex, or genderfuck In this sense, it necessarily rejects the concept of a gender binary, which some bisexuals may not reject. To this end, pansexuality as a concept has been criticized as a "means to skip the binaries and essentialism of 'bi'." Bisexual behavior can be classified in terms of ambisexuality or omnisexuality. Ambisexuality refers to specifically any bisexual behavior or attitude that acknowledges the sex and gender of a person in bisexual behavior whereas omnisexuality looks at sex and gender as incosequential to the sexual acceptance of another person. Herein is the distinction between and ambisexual and omnisexual approach to bisexual expression. [4]



One of the things I like most about my local  BDSM community is that it is genuinely Pansexual in attitude nature and representation. I grew up in a pansexual environment (Brighton, Kemptown Village) and so it feels natural and comfortable to be within a social group that is populated by people who do not just identify within the "gender binary" ... but anyhow .. to my main point which is about sexuality/gender and how tastes/choices may change.

A quick poll of the profiles on the otherside would indicate that there are a lot of bisexual female submissives ... in fact a lot of bisexual women in general .. not in itself surprising. Bisexuality is something often quite hard to pin down ... it spans from the bi-curious ... from people who are predominately homosexual but dabble occassionally with the opposite sex.

Those who identify as bisexual ... do you find yourself leaning more naturally into favouring one gender? Or are you a right down the middle 50/50 type?

The PR for bisexuality is usually pretty bad ... "Oh you'll have anything" is a phrase tossed at Bi friends fairly often by both the straight and gay communities - or the ever amusing "You're just being greedy!" ...(as if all the bisexual people are hoarding two at a time, one of each .. and waiting to see what takes their fancy!)

Those who do identify as bisexual ... why do you think the PR for bisexuality is often so negative?
 
Pansexuality is a phrase I only became familiar with about a year ago (as in I heard it being used and understood commonly) ... and I think the key feature of it as defined above is that gender is a neutral factor in attractiveness ... that anyone of any gender description has the potential to be attractive to someone who identfies as Pansexual

To everyone ... what is your personal  understanding of Pansexual? Is it something you would dismiss as needless label mongering?

Physical and behavioural  gender archetypes exist and are seemingly inescapable ... Dykes always have short hair, gay boys always mince, sexy girls always have long blonde hair, and straight men don't wear pink (that was IRONY!). These exist because of generations of social and artistic conditioning to ascociate certain looks/behaviours with certain gender groups, there are lines between the genders, and further lines between sexualities. Pansexuality refers to sexual preferences for those who do not fit into the convential binary gender model. It also lends itself well to those people who find a person who blurs gender lines to be sexually attractive to them while being of no fixed binary gender.

If you identiy as bisexual, are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundaries? If you are het/homosexual are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundary onto your usually favoured side of the binary?
 
This was just posted out of general interest ... so if anyone has any other discussion points to throw into the mix ... that would be cool too!

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:27:35 PM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

To everyone ... what is your personal  understanding of Pansexual? Is it something you would dismiss as needless label mongering?


it is great...loving people no matter who they are for what they are
although as a hetero..I mostly see bisexual and pansexual mentioned when it just comes to sex. I hardly ever see it in connection with just "living together". But that could just be I don't know peopleinterested in that.
Is it me..or are  mostly females bisexual?

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/14/2008 12:28:18 PM >

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:31:38 PM   
LittleBeth


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/27/2008
Status: offline 		You know, "greedy" gets applied to you far more often when you define as bi (though arguably really pan) poly and a switch (for simplicity's sake).

I'm not a 50/50 split, because... my first crush was a m-f trans, my second was f-m trans, my third was m... I'm all over the place, and now looking for a relationship with a couple of couples.  I don't lean towards one gender or another, I lean towards people, and there are very few I'm comfortable enough with to let down the walls.

Why is the press so negative?  Lack of understanding of bisexuality in the real world (from het/homo communities) and prevalence of "bi-slut" image in porn (and that being the predominant image that people have of bisexuals).

I'd define pan sexual as "attracted to the person, irrelevent of the gender", but then, that's how I define "bi sexual" much to the irk of my trans friends, who feel unincluded by my label.

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:32:31 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am an odd duck in that most of my life, until a few years ago, was lived pretty vanilla hetro. For alot of really boring reasons that don't matter.

When I met my first female lover, she totally rocked my world. Chaos ensued.

Now, while I obviously have not been a gold star lesbian, I am primarily only sexually attracted to women. I don't believe I fit the stereotypical dyke prototype, nor am I at all, attracted to that. I don't have any negative feelings towards men or more masculine women, I just know what excites me and what doesn't.

I prefer commited, exclusive type relationships so long periods of time can go by with not much going on.


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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:34:44 PM   
IvyMorgan


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From: Midlands, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBeth

You know, "greedy" gets applied to you far more often when you define as bi (though arguably really pan) poly and a switch (for simplicity's sake).

I'm not a 50/50 split, because... my first crush was a m-f trans, my second was f-m trans, my third was m... I'm all over the place, and now looking for a relationship with a couple of couples.  I don't lean towards one gender or another, I lean towards people, and there are very few I'm comfortable enough with to let down the walls.

Why is the press so negative?  Lack of understanding of bisexuality in the real world (from het/homo communities) and prevalence of "bi-slut" image in porn (and that being the predominant image that people have of bisexuals).

I'd define pan sexual as "attracted to the person, irrelevent of the gender", but then, that's how I define "bi sexual" much to the irk of my trans friends, who feel unincluded by my label.


Ivy needs to be more careful when she shares her computer, that she logs in properly and doesn't post under someone else's name.

Ivy is a muppet, or tired, or a tired muppet.

Ivy will go shower the cobwebs away now.

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:34:53 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


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Status: offline 		kisses softy 

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 12:59:47 PM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		As someone who fancies herself a bisexual, submissive female, I tend to gravitate a bit more towards women.  In my personal experience, the men that I may be initially attracted to, are only interested in me for what I am and what they want to watch me do, rather than who I am.  While I am sure there are ladies out there that are like that too, but I just haven't run into them.  These days, though, I am gravitating towards Daddy, and have no need or want for anyone else.  (although both faery and softness are crazy hot, and I just pictured them kissing.  Thanks gals!!)

In my realm of experience, the bisexual label has gotten a bad rap because when applied to a bisexual male, often you will hear something like "oh just admit it, you are actually GAY".  If you are female, you get such lovely sentiments hurled at you like "you are only like that so you can get guys' attention" "stop being so greedy" and "oh just admit it, you are actually GAY" (this last one not as much, though).  Just because my interests fall within a broader spectrum than some, doesn't make me a greedy attention-seeking slut.  Just don't pay attention to all the guys and girls I have hoarded in the shed out back.  They are all mine, and you can't have any!  Muwhahahaha!

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 1:13:08 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Sosoft... I love you - but - I just will need to sit you down and really deal with these terrible musical taste issues you have.
 
KatePerry does NOT rock.
 
As a het female, I have no issues with bisexuality like I do Ms Perry.  I wouldn't disregard a bi male as a partner because they might be bi.  I would be happy in a relationship with any male that I found I was compatable with regardless of whether they were bi, trans or whatever.  But I am straight, so for a sexual relationship they would identify as male with me and would be monogamous.  I have done the threesomes in the past with a bi and gay male couple and that was pretty hot.  If monogamy was an issue, then we just wouldn't be compatable.  As friends it's all cool.
 
And if they liked Ms Perry, the door would be closed faster.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 1:23:36 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		To me, pansexuality is about integration of -whatever- you identify as - boy/girl/trans/gay/straight/bi. 
Let's face it, we are all of us different (SHOCKER! )  and society is changing as time goes by and it becomes more acceptable for someone like me to identify as a "bi-sexual girlie boy" which is where I currently sit.  I am 80% het, but find that my Lady wanting me to be with another guy is just beyond HOT...I am not totally trans as I don't want SRS...and I am not -just- a crossdresser as I have definite female desires and think/identify a LOT as female.

I'm sorry, but a single definition for gender and sexuality is not enough to contain me!

So I think that "pansexual" is a good word and would like to see it propigated further into the ears and minds of ordinary everyday single definition folk around the world. 



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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 1:54:09 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness


Those who identify as bisexual ... do you find yourself leaning more naturally into favouring one gender? Or are you a right down the middle 50/50 type?


I'm a 50/50, my Darling is a het with bi leanings for specific individuals.

quote:

Those who do identify as bisexual ... why do you think the PR for bisexuality is often so negative?


I think that the PR is so bad because people don't understand the capacity to be attracted -- I really think that the PR is a reflection of the heavy societal biases against polyamory/polyfidelity and homosexual expression. We have, in essence, conditioned to believe that there is something wrong with a person who "can't decide" which gender to be attracted to. From a holistic standpoint, though, it seems that pansexuality would be a truly healthy state, since health (especially emotional/mental health) is typically measured according to the degree of adaptability/flexibility an individual is capable of. Pansexuality is representative of a high degree of flexibility, and so, rationally, it should be perceived as indicating a high level of adaptability, stability, and health.
 

quote:

To everyone ... what is your personal  understanding of Pansexual? Is it something you would dismiss as needless label mongering?


I think that 'pansexual' for me, indicates the capacity to see beyond gender in -any- of its faces, and develop an affinity for the -person- and sexual attraction to the person. I don't think that it is 'label mongering', except among those who fail to recognize the comprehensive capacity for human gender identity.



quote:

If you identiy as bisexual, are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundaries? If you are het/homosexual are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundary onto your usually favoured side of the binary?


I'm pretty flexible. I'm attracted to people rather than genders across the board, including those who blur gender boundaries and those who transcend gender as entirely as possible in our world. At the same time, I'm also attracted to some individuals who epitomize gender stereotypes (think Wesley Snipes as BLADE, Lawrence Fishburne as Morpheus) and their counterparts who shatter them in the very same styles [think Grace Jones as Zula [Conan the Destroyer]).


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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 2:20:43 PM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		BLECH I hate that song!!!  It reminds me of all the barsexual girls that get freaky with their friends (or the random person, such as moi) to get guys' attention.  And adding to the bad PR.  Damn them. 

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 2:31:17 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I wonder whether this reserve towards bisexuality has something to do with the 'plugs and sockets' mentality a considerable number of people have when it comes to relationships and sexuality.

Whenever I meet anyone new - doesn't have to be a date or even anywhere near a romantic situation you can guarantee that the issues of surgery, my genitalia and who I form relationships with are pretty much within the top three interesting facts about me for most people.

Apparently trying to work out who sticks what body parts into the other person occupies a considerable number of time for some people.

"I form relationships with women," I tell them, and just to throw them off guard I might add," but we usually have a cucumber or something similar in the fridge."

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 2:40:38 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I love that song and its like a marketing gneuis

To the points, I am probably a 40/60 kind of girl I prefer men but less because i actually prefer them and more because of my family history

For me bisexuality has never had a bad press the whole greedy thing has never been an issue for me. i actually think people are pretty tolerant to female bisexuals on the whole but male slightly differant there is a special kind of stigma attached to that, I have always assumed due to the physical act itself women on women seems far less intrusive, this is what i get from people who say negative things about bisexual men.

I do think sometimes we over do labels and I think this is the case, pansexul is to my mind slightly elitest as though they are some kind of spiritually enlightened group and wouldnt want to lump themselves with us lowly bisexuals. However if it is to prefent any victimiasation they feel then good on the,

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 2:43:02 PM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		{Those who identify as bisexual ... do you find yourself leaning more naturally into favouring one gender? Or are you a right down the middle 50/50 type? }


I do lean.  I am mostly attracted sexually to males and more specifically dominant males. 
  My attraction to other women is not ( or doesnt feel the same ) as my attraction to men.  I basically just consider myself open-minded and feel no hang-ups about expressing my love physically and emotionally for women when I am in that kind of a close relationship ( and they are open to it of course).   I do find the kind of intimacy I feel with a woman is not something I find in my other relationships...and I don't mean that in a bad way or as a slam towards men.  I love men....and there are things I feel in a relationship with a man that I cannot feel from a woman also....
 
  Would I choose a soley lesbian relationship over a hetero one with a man ?  I'd really rather not choose...can't I have both?  grinz     I guess thats why I call myself bi-sexual...
 
maybe that makes me more of a slut than a bi-sexual woman hm?
anyway..
 
{Those who do identify as bisexual ... why do you think the PR for bisexuality is often so negative? }
there are?  I hadn't noticed.
 
{If you identiy as bisexual, are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundaries? If you are het/homosexual are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundary onto your usually favoured side of the binary? }

  Not so far  

I don't know enough about definitions of pan-sexual to comment about my feelings about the labeling ...but I will be reading this thread closely and thanks Soft for bring it up..
 
Cyndi





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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 3:20:33 PM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
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Status: offline 		Just what we need - more pigeon holes.

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 6:43:23 PM   
VivaciousSub


Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I love that song and its like a marketing gneuis

For me bisexuality has never had a bad press the whole greedy thing has never been an issue for me. i actually think people are pretty tolerant to female bisexuals on the whole but male slightly differant there is a special kind of stigma attached to that, I have always assumed due to the physical act itself women on women seems far less intrusive, this is what i get from people who say negative things about bisexual men.



I also like that song - but I like Jimmy Buffet, so don't take my musical tastes with anything approaching seriousness.

I'm bi, and what coloured wrote struck a chord with me. I think she's hit the nail on the head. Here's the interpretations of "bi" that I've found for men and women - note, this isn't how I think.

Female Bisexual - likes women sexually but prefers to date men - I would guess this comes from porn? Thus, they're not seen as "gay" so much as "playing". Both of these views I feel are unhelpful. When I'm with a woman, I'm not playing. For some reason, I sense that bisexual women are seen as "safer" than bisexual males. Safer, in this case to the so-called natural order of man-woman relationships - she doesn't really mean it! She'll be okay once she finds a nice man!

Male Bisexual - seems to be seen as "gay" and occasionally "playing" at heterosexuality. I've met quite a few people who have honestly said, "there's no such thing as male bisexuals, they're gay men hidden in the closet".  This interpretation is even more off-putting to me.

The great Dr. Kinsey noted that almost zero people are 100% hetero- or 100% homosexual. The rest of us fall on a continuum. I think we all - that's everyone, not just us on the boards - could stand to review the work of Dr. Kinsey, if not for his specific conclusions but to reaffirm the fact that there's a panopoly of sexual practices, mores and beliefs. I fall in the 60/40 range, men to women.

Edited to note: whoever came up with the word "barsexual" needs an award. Pronto.


< Message edited by VivaciousSub -- 10/14/2008 6:45:41 PM >

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 7:01:25 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		It's not my style of music, but I find that little number to be cute in a bubblegum kind of way.

Sexuality.  I consider myself hetero, and I would call myself bi-curious.  I also wonder about the whole "forced bi" thing.  If it happens at some point, great, and if it doesn't I'd be ok with that too.  Males are a must-have for me sexually, females are a curious option.

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 7:08:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Those who identify as bisexual ... do you find yourself leaning more naturally into favouring one gender? Or are you a right down the middle 50/50 type?

I favor men, but am more sexually secure with women.

quote:

Those who do identify as bisexual ... why do you think the PR for bisexuality is often so negative?

Because a great majority of bisexual behavior is really peformance art or "trying to be cool"

quote:

To everyone ... what is your personal  understanding of Pansexual? Is it something you would dismiss as needless label mongering?

To me it's like my use of WIITWD it means "I'm open to all opportunities"

I prefer bisexual because it suits, works best practically, and I'm not open to all opportunities.

quote:

If you identiy as bisexual, are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundaries? If you are het/homosexual are you sexually interested in people who blur the gender boundary onto your usually favoured side of the binary?

I tend to get sub crushes on hard dykes, and giggly crushes on bois.  But it's more about their attitudes, not that they happen to be blurring traditional genders.

I also trust females far less than I trust males, so that's an issue.
 

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 7:32:27 PM   
housemouse61


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline 		An interesting topic i must say.  Honestly, i'm not sure which if any of those "pockets" i would fit into because i guess i'm kind of "fickle" for lack of a better word.  Generally speaking i consider myself basically heterosexual; but i have always admired beautiful women and from time-to-time get an "itch" to walk on that side of the fence, as it were.  However, i did not fully immerse myself into a female on female tryst until i was introduced to someone by Master.  It was a lot of fun and i, honestly, enjoyed the experience more than i previously thought i would because of "old vanilla ideas", if you will.  Ultimately, the girl was very sweet and fun; but really not my type for specific reasons that i won't get into.  Long story/short version...i tucked the experience away in a happy place until i meet someone of my own choosing (with Master's approval, of course).

It's kind of funny, though.  In order to be with another woman i not only have to be attracted to her both physically and intellectually; but i have to be "in the mood" for such activity.  Which usually tends to happen when i get "bored" with hetero and crave something a bit different.

Not sure if i added anything of substance to this thread, really.  It just piqued my interest so i had to toss in my two cents.  Enjoy it for what it's worth.  ;-)

Peace favor and blessed be,

nikki
Property of Cruel Desires

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RE: Kissing girls ... and other things - 10/14/2008 7:51:15 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		That song drives me nuts well ok more nutso.  I did however while I was on youtube check out cheech and chong videos. 

BadOne

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