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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 5:56:57 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I ask a young african american woman at the gas pump why she was voting for obama.
her response? "because he's black" I ask if she knew any of his positions or voting records.
I got told to shut up and that I was just a fucking white boy trying to pull "them" down.
how charming. and how shitty for our "republic"



I'd be a bit wary of taking a single stranger as a spokesperson for millions of people.



Never said I did. But it made me wonder.


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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 5:58:20 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay first off if we are going to discuss false logic we should start with what you are putting forth....identifying and voting for a member of ones own race is not racism...and never has been.Greeks voting in large numbers for Dukakis was not racism it was national identification...now if an Irishmen had declined to vote for Dukakis because he was Greek...that is racism.A black man voting for Obama solely on the color of his skin can be accused of identifying with Obama and celebrating him as one of his own....but it fails the test for racism,and the fact you can't see that is part of your problem,but you just keep looking for boogie men to blame your problems on.....


First, going to back to your original argument, you can't introduce the past history of "white people voting for white canidates" as justification for black people voting for a black candidate, because....*drum roll*....all the canidates have been white!

This is the first election where race has been an issue.

So just throw that whole justification out the window.

Second, 6% of people claim they won't vote for Obama, because he is black, but apparently, if they have realigned the semantics and said "I am voting for McCain, because he is white", that would be perfectly acceptable to you.

The inherent flaw of your argument is the fact that we have an election where there is two candidates who are white and black. So if you vote for one because he is white, then you are by association saying you aren't voting for the other because he is black. End of story.

You want to sidetrack and distort the issue to protect the right of a black candidate to win because of his skin color when you venomously oppose the idea of a white candidate winning because of his skin color. Whether or not, we can define in PC terms whether this qualifies as "true racism" is completely irrelevant to the fact that race is being introduced as a deciding factor in votes.

I am not voting for McCain, because he is white! I am voting for him because I like his politics better than Obamas!

And Obama obtaining votes for his race is just as bad as the constant public outcry of him not obtaining votes for his race.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 10/14/2008 5:59:59 PM >

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:02:05 PM   
MadRabbit


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Status: offline 		But for the record, I really hope that Musicmystery's article is right and I am completely wrong. I really want to beleive I am living in a country where the first black president was voted into office because of his character and politics and not because of his skin color.

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:14:23 PM   
SoulPiercer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
The blacks in this country have been bought and paid for by the democrats and that's just a fact of life.


FACT of life? Well then .. where the hell is my  factual check?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni
I ask a young african american woman at the gas pump why she was voting for obama.
her response? "because he's black" I ask if she knew any of his positions or voting records.
I got told to shut up and that I was just a fucking white boy trying to pull "them" down.
how charming. and how shitty for our "republic"


I've had several white american men and women who all admit they have been life long democrats, but they are voting for McCain. They all start their explanation with .. "I'm not racist, but..." They go on to explain that things really aren't that bad, so why change? Interesting reasoning. Things aren't really that bad.

I don't care whether you're black, white, asian or hispanic. When you start your sentence with "I'm not racist but..", it makes me wonder why you had to qualify your statement.

I have a completely different view on race relations, because of something my father told me before I joined the Army.

He told me that wearing the uniform was an honor, but it bore a huge responsibility for a black man. I had to understand and accept the fact that I may have to give up my life, while defending someone else's right to call me a nigger.

Yes .. we have race issues in this country. Always have, probably always will. Because it makes the machine move. As long as the voting populace continues to allow themselves to get sucked into issues like race, smoking and gay marriage, those we elected will be free to keep doing things that drive the country into the ground.

< Message edited by SoulPiercer -- 10/14/2008 6:16:18 PM >

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:16:11 PM   
slvemike4u


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For the record MadRabbit Obama has consistantly denied race will play a factor in this race...he has called it a wash....so your alluding to Obama's constant public outcry holds about as much water  has the rest of your argument...it is leaking all over the place(see 60 minutes interview)
BTW my alluding to white people voting for white people...was a little pointed sarcasm.
But again racial indentification is not now and has never been racism,it is quite simply a case of people being comfortable with the familiar and in this case celebrating an advancement of one of their own for the first time in their history...but if you feel more comfortable,if calling this racism somehow validates some need in you ...good luck with that...I have no more patience for this silliness.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:25:54 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
For the record MadRabbit Obama has consistantly denied race will play a factor in this race...he has called it a wash....so your alluding to Obama's constant public outcry holds about as much water  has the rest of your argument...it is leaking all over the place(see 60 minutes interview)


I never associated the "public outcry" with Obama. I just said "public outcry". Putting words in my mouth is pretty silly if you ask me. I was alluding to focus in the media on white people not voting for obama as opposed to the issue of black people voting for Obama.

quote:


But again racial indentification is not now and has never been racism,it is quite simply a case of people being comfortable with the familiar and in this case celebrating an advancement of one of their own for the first time in their history...but if you feel more comfortable,if calling this racism somehow validates some need in you ...good luck with that...I have no more patience for this silliness.


Repeating the same argument a second time around doesn't make it anymore convincing. That's pretty silly if you ask me.

Almost as silly as missing the point. Voting because of race, whether racism or racial identity, is still defeating the purpose of an election where the vote should be cast for character and politics.

But not as silly trying to deny the fact that voting for a candidate because he is black is just as bad as voting a candidate because he is not black.

The ultimate silliness is when your own viewpoints contribute to the continued division of a nation by race by your zealous support of one race over the other.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:26:08 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:




ORIGINAL: corysub
The blacks in this country have been bought and paid for by the democrats and that's just a fact of life.


FACT of life? Well then .. where the hell is my  factual check?



Heyyyy!!!!! Get in line, bub!


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:36:35 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

But for the record, I really hope that Musicmystery's article is right and I am completely wrong.



         I saw that article.  Denial from someone who played the race card, and won.

       Now DC makes a very good point about extrapolating too far from a single encounter, but a tiny random slice, is still a sample.  The mentality is out there.  I had an angry black woman on the phone at work last week tell me how Obama was going to "fix you white people's asses" when he was President.  I put that in the same category as the comments of those who insist his middle name is a deciding factor.

       The ones I listen to are the blue-collar, yellow dogs.  I know quite a few of those.  Some of them, I know well enough to know when they are lying.  Obama's numbers aren't as high as they look.

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:39:34 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

I ask a young african american woman at the gas pump why she was voting for obama.
her response? "because he's black" I ask if she knew any of his positions or voting records.
I got told to shut up and that I was just a fucking white boy trying to pull "them" down.
how charming. and how shitty for our "republic"



I'd be a bit wary of taking a single stranger as a spokesperson for millions of people.



I agree, but isn't that what those well-edited ten second soundbites we are constantly being fed by the media are all about...??

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:42:47 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I saw that article.


How did you "see" it? It was an NPR piece.

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:44:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No but repeating a valid argument and restating it in the hopes it will get thru...oh what the hell your right arguing with you on this is silly ....
p.s.I do apologise for misreading your public outcry quote...I missed that and I am sorry....Mike

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 6:56:17 PM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I saw that article.


How did you "see" it? It was an NPR piece.


Don't confuse him with details and facts

K

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:05:42 PM   
MtGames


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Missoula, MT
Status: offline 		The test for racism is whether a decision was made based on race. Simple. So voting for someone because their race is yours is certainly racism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay first off if we are going to discuss false logic we should start with what you are putting forth....identifying and voting for a member of ones own race is not racism...and never has been.Greeks voting in large numbers for Dukakis was not racism it was national identification...now if an Irishmen had declined to vote for Dukakis because he was Greek...that is racism.A black man voting for Obama solely on the color of his skin can be accused of identifying with Obama and celebrating him as one of his own....but it fails the test for racism,and the fact you can't see that is part of your problem,but you just keep looking for boogie men to blame your problems on.....


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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:08:33 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I saw that article.


How did you "see" it? It was an NPR piece.



         This is what I get for multi-tasking... I thought you had linked to this one.  The NPR window was hiding.  My bad.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:10:00 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp


quote:





ORIGINAL: corysub
The blacks in this country have been bought and paid for by the democrats and that's just a fact of life.



FACT of life? Well then .. where the hell is my  factual check?

Hey...good news!!..Your check will be in the mail next January...I guess your not familiar with Obama's plan and didn't know that was part of the platform.

I know you guys think Fox is a horrible propaganda voice of the republican party, but all they are doing is quoting Obama's plan..Unless you can show where they are incorrect, I think what they say stands.
 
                            http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=196103


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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:37:30 PM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		~FR~

"McCain has been rabble-rousing, calling Obama a terrorist and a Muslim," Ron Havens says. So he put up a "Halloween display" (??) on his property that depicts McCain wearing Ku Klux Klan robes (with his hood up so you can see who it is) chasing Obama with a baseball bat.

Havens says he did it for its shock value, and figured it would be "equally offensive to everyone".

Not quite, apparently. Georgia Verdier, president of the Elmira-Corning Branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said she "was concerned" after receiving a call complaining about the display. But after viewing a photograph of the scene, she said "it seems innocuous enough."

"This display appears friendly to me," she told the Star-Gazette.

K.







< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/14/2008 7:51:10 PM >

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:40:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MtGames

The test for racism is whether a decision was made based on race. Simple. So voting for someone because their race is yours is certainly racism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay first off if we are going to discuss false logic we should start with what you are putting forth....identifying and voting for a member of ones own race is not racism...and never has been.Greeks voting in large numbers for Dukakis was not racism it was national identification...now if an Irishmen had declined to vote for Dukakis because he was Greek...that is racism.A black man voting for Obama solely on the color of his skin can be accused of identifying with Obama and celebrating him as one of his own....but it fails the test for racism,and the fact you can't see that is part of your problem,but you just keep looking for boogie men to blame your problems on.....


Not true and never has been...Look not all voters actually sit down and look at all the candidates views on all issues...some voters vote for or against particular candidates for the most shallow reasons.For better or for worse this has allways been so....decry it if you like ,bitch about if you must,but a person of color voting for the first person of color to ever run for the Office of President is a case of racial identification and pride.....if you feel better and it validates something for you or relieves some guilt go ahead point to  this and cry racism,go right ahead it is no skin off my nose...its just not true,but this is America...you get to believe what you want to believe no matter how deluded.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 7:54:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

It's not racism when 90% of blacks are voting for Obama.  The blacks in this country have been bought and paid for by the democrats and that's just a fact of life.  I'm surprised it's not 95%!
The blacks... it would never occur to me to refer to Black folk in this manner. You revealed something about yourself with that choice of words.



quote:

I'm sorry, but I can agree to disagree with you all on political views...but find it diffiuclt to discuss views with people who are either stupid or too ideological in their point of view to conduct a constructive arguement.  
I've not seen you do much more than regurgitate the latest partisan ideological BS from Newsmax and Little Green Footballs.
Irony abounds.

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RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 8:14:03 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I am from the deep south. I grew up in racism.  Some folks will never get over it including the other side.
I can report that my 95 year old lead by faith grandmother put in her absentee ballot yesterday, and she said, "I want to vote for Barack Obama."
I have never been so blown away in my life.
I have to vote now.
 
He will go in regardless because I personally think Bush has killed any hope for the republican party to go in. 

Regards, MissSCD

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obama Wins Because of Racism?! - 10/14/2008 8:32:53 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

African Americans make up about 12% of the total population, so if 90% vote for Obama because he is black, you have 1% of the population voting for him.  Whites make up about 68% of the population, so if 6% won't vote for Obama because he is black, that is 4% of the population who won't vote for him because he is black. That's still 3 to 1. Besides, the quote states they are voting for him "mainly because he's black" is that a fact or an inference?

I'm afraid your numbers are off. 90% of 12% is 10.8%,  and 6% of 68% is actually 4%. Therefore, again assuming the stats are correct, just shy of 11% of the population will vote for Obama because he is black, and 4% will vote against him because he is black.

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