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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 6:56:12 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
Sorry, but it's a myth that abuse only happens among the poor

That one - I'll grant - is a myth.
quote:

or that poor (and wealthy) abuse victims will go crawling back to their abusers so why bother trying to help
This one, I won't stipulate to.  It is not a myth that "abuse victims will go crawling back."  It happens many, many times everyday, everywhere.  I'm not saying no one should ever bother to help but pretending victims never go back - that doing so is "mythical" - is part of the ignorance you're saying hurts so much.  I managed a DV shelter for several years and worked closely with many women who went back over and over.  The next time they came back that didn't mean we didn't help again...and again...and again.  But pretending victims don't go back - sometimes over and over - before finally getting out is just not factual. 
 
It's cliche to say but you can't help someone unless they're ready, willing and able to accept that help and indeed help themselves.  I know because not only was I a DV shelter manager but DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD became a victim of domestic violence.  I knew better, I knew I had help, and I still stayed.  Sometimes, I even left and went "crawling back" too.  It happens.  Alot..................luci
 
 

 

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 10/16/2008 6:57:18 PM >

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 7:57:47 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Great point, luci. The "crawling back" victims are so emotionally messed up that they can not comprehend any other option. They think they deserve it. They're afraid of life other than what they know. They're too ashamed to ask for help. They feel so worthless they don't think they deserve help, anyway, and they may as well stay until they're beaten to death and out of their misery...and so on.

Yes I'd call the police. If it's a BDSM scene (probably lower chances of that than an abusive scene), then they'll learn to stifle the noise a bit. If it's abuse, then there will be record of a call, so when the guy wants to pull an OJ Simpson on her, the authorities might raise an eyebrow when he says she tripped and fell.

And what if it IS a BDSM scene? So often we see threads about not shoving our kinks in other's faces. If I can hear it, maybe the kids next door can hear it. Maybe the company I have over for dinner can hear it. And so on. Screams of "Please no more, stop!" would probably traumatize me, bringing back baggage from my abuse growing up. Yep, I'd call the police. If nothing else than to report noise pollution! Seriously, though, I can't even handle it when my own neighbors yell at each other. It brings waaay too much stuff up, and I want to close all my windows and head for cover. If your play is going to be that heavy, sound proof the room.

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 8:58:08 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		I'd put on my tough-guy voice (it's pretty good, really!) and yell back "If I hear any more goddamn screaming from over there I'm callin' the cops!"
Then the ball's in their court.


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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 9:06:19 PM   
giveeverything


Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

 Keep in mind that sodomy is illegal and you possibly could be sending someone to jail, or saving a life, by your phone call.
 
Point of interest.  Sodomy laws (making sodomy illegal) were ruled unconsitutional by the US Supreme Court in 2003, Lawrance v. Texas.  Some laws are still on state's books but if they ever went to trial they would be over ruled by the federal law. 

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 10:56:39 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExKat

I live in a situation where I can frequently hear the sounds of legit, non-sexual domestic abuse. I almost never call the police. Why? Because the woman who was sobbing and being hit 2 minutes ago is going to be furiously angry and deny everything if the police show up, and then she'll pop my tires, and she'll be being beat-up again next week. Gotta love living in the ghetto.



What has domestic violence got to do with people living in the ghetto?

I live on the fringes of Stockwell in South London, I live in social housing in 'the ghetto' and (1) I've yet to hear anything like the above. (2) I'm transgendered but can walk the streets safely 24/7.

I got molested last week outside a pub in upmarket Sloane Square near Chelsea by a group of .. office workers standing outside a pub drinking beer.

I think someone reads too many glossy colour magazines.

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 11:10:34 PM   
OneMoreWaste


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Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff

What neighborhoods do y'all live in? I grew up in east cleveland. The only time you didnt get shot knocking on somones door after dark was either A.) halloween, and B.) when theyve ordered a pizza. So yeah, go knock on the crackheads door, let me know how that works out.


I live in a neighborhood with no crackheads. Fuck the city life


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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 11:11:45 PM   
Gorgias


Posts: 41
Joined: 10/31/2007
Status: offline 		Call the police.  Kinky people are rare, abusive people are unfortunately not as rare.  If everything was consensual, they should be able to get out of trouble quite easily

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 11:15:03 PM   
keiosu


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/5/2008
Status: offline 		I would call the police. No question. Of course, if it was me and I was playing, I'd be pissed, but better angry than dead. 

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/16/2008 11:58:44 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

The police are not stupid enough to intervene in a consensual sex situation of whatever stripe. They are not the blockheads of common folklore.
If you hear screams, call the police, let them sort it out.
If someone goes to jail for it, cool, they can have all the noisy buggery they want in there.
In the UK sodomy is perfectly legal, soon to be compulsory I believe...


Sodomy in the UK is still illegal.  The law itself has never been revoked, when not a couple.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/16/2008 11:59:48 PM >

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 12:13:17 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
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From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

The police are not stupid enough to intervene in a consensual sex situation of whatever stripe. They are not the blockheads of common folklore.
If you hear screams, call the police, let them sort it out.
If someone goes to jail for it, cool, they can have all the noisy buggery they want in there.
In the UK sodomy is perfectly legal, soon to be compulsory I believe...


Errrr ... recent legislation bypass you much?

Police raid my house ... I am in the middle of a fully consensual heavy SM scene with my Top where she is beating me until I bruise .. and  we can *both* get arrested ... and *both* receive a charge.





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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 12:18:50 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		If I heard screams and a "No no no! please stop!" type conversation .. I would go next door and knock ... loudly .. until I got an answer.

I live in an old victorian building with thin walls, its filled with other young professional types like me. Even if I didn't make sound while playing .. the sounds of impact can be heard easily (especially with a single tail ... ever noticed how that can sound oddly like a gunshot?).
My neighbours are (to varrying degrees) clear that the strange noises coming from my flat are consensual. I also know that similar noises from theirs would not be. I would not call the police unless I was certain nefarious activity of the illegal kind was happening because in the UK SM activity that leaves anything more than "transient" and "trifling" harm ... is illegal.

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 1:33:47 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		You know, the more I think about it, the less I'm sure that there's actually a distinction between "abusive relationships" and "bad emotional decision-making."

People will stay in all sorts of situations that are bad for them. People will dress up all sorts of situations as anything but what they actually are. And it often seems like there's no Venn diagramming to be done, here: there's no magic lines that you can draw, that will magically separate "abusive" situations from "non-abusive" ones.

Maybe rather than focus on victim-rescue and perpetrator-punishment, our culture should be focussing on teaching people to have better self-esteem and make better decisions.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 2:54:53 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		What would I do?  Get to know your neighbours.
Invite them in or arrange to go to the pub one night.
Be lovely and friendly.
Find out about them.
 
If the noise occured I would knock and ask if I was unsure.
At least they would then know what their noise was doing - some people don't.
 
People are so scared to communicate and interact.  Get out y'all and make new friends - at lest try and borrw a cup of milk.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 10/17/2008 2:55:40 AM >

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 3:24:56 AM   
DelilahDeb


Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		If it sounds like abusse, call in a domestic disturbance. And if you are concerned about retribution from a neighbor afterwards, call anonymously.
I lived in the basement below a gay couple's flat in San Fran for years, and called in a double D on them twice. It's hard to mistake the sounds of someone being slammed into the wall when that same wall has a (boarded-over) laundry chute down to the former houseboy's hovel.) The police never once called me back, much less came to my door.

And nowadays I live alone in a single family residence, and when a neighbor's party gets too loud for too long, I call the cops just on an noise complaint. Because they are equipped to deal with potentially drunk or hostile partyers at one ack emma, and I am not.

And, at least in the Pacific Northwest, police departments have been educated (largely by the work of kinky activists in the region) to the point that one of my subs recounts the tale of a play party several years back that took place in greater Portland (Oregon) when a sub screaming enthusiastically under the flogger brought a pair of police offiices to the door. And they were politely met and behaved politely, and accepted the explanation that there was play going on, and said that they'd have to hear it from the woman screaming. And she was removed from scene and wrapped in a blanket and came down enough to confirm that, yes, thank you, it was consensual, and she was sorry to have disturbed anyone. Whereupon the cops thanked everyone for their co-operation, and went outside to their cruiser, and remained there on the street for another fifteen or twenty minutes to see what ensued.
Et volá, no fuss, no muss.

BUT. I would rather call the cops and embarrass a neighbor a dozen times than have a body removed from a neighbor's home because *I* chose not to call.

Yes, it can be difficult to choose. Behooves folk to think just a little ahead before they scene, eh?

Lady Delilah Deb


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 4:28:12 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

They should be educated enough to know that if they have close neighbors, someone could hear and they should act accordingly, like shut the windows and try to keep it down.   That's only common sense.


This is why this is only hypothetical. I have not had this happen here, yet <s>
 
quote:

A long time ago, I was in that same situation....could hear a neighbor beating the crap out of his wife or girlfriend, and it wasn't a play session.  I did call the cops, and she thanked me later.


A long time ago, a woman came crying to my door. She was pretty messed up, black eyes, ect. I let her in. I didn't lock my door and the next thing I know, I am being pounded by her worthless husband. He just opened my door and started in on me. I called the police and was told, because my door wasn't locked, he did not "break and enter". The wife stood there and denied everything. Lesson learned.
 
Thanks for responding :)





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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 4:33:02 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

Gotta love living in the ghetto


In 1969 I lived in Watts.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 4:37:18 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

What would I do?  Get to know your neighbours.
Invite them in or arrange to go to the pub one night.
Be lovely and friendly.
Find out about them.
 
If the noise occured I would knock and ask if I was unsure.
At least they would then know what their noise was doing - some people don't.
 
People are so scared to communicate and interact.  Get out y'all and make new friends - at lest try and borrw a cup of milk.
 
the.dark.


Hey sugar,
You got a cuppa sugar and some eggs and flour? I'm trying to make you a cake.

(lushy, who got to know her neighbor the.dark better and adores her now)

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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 7:20:54 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There is no question, I call the police. In my state one cannot consent to being abused.

quote:

I live in a situation where I can frequently hear the sounds of legit, non-sexual domestic abuse. I almost never call the police. Why? Because the woman who was sobbing and being hit 2 minutes ago is going to be furiously angry and deny everything if the police show up, and then she'll pop my tires, and she'll be being beat-up again next week. Gotta love living in the ghetto.


In other words if the police investigate and a woman is getting the shit knocked out of her, there are witnesses to this, or blood and facial bruising, they are going to take him off to the pokey. She does not get a vote. It is not up to her to "press charges". The crime is against the state. Often there are children involved in these situations... and they are unconsenting people period. I do not know where you live that it is ok to beat the shit out of your partner  nonconsensually in the eyes of the law, but if i lived there I would be working to change those laws. My niece was choked until she lost consciousness by her husband. Her doctor reported this because she had bruises around her neck and when asked she admited what happened. She did not get a vote as to if her hubby was locked up or went to court. He spent 6 months in jail on a 9 month sentence... his first conviction. He had to do anger management as a condition of his probation. So your scenario of out to beat his wife the next week is less likely to happen in California

And btw, domestic violence is not a poverty issue, it is not a socio economic issue... you just can't hear the screams in the gated community as easily.


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RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 7:24:30 AM   
SilentTigresss


Posts: 261
Joined: 1/18/2004
Status: offline 		This doesn't just happen "in the ghetto".

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Hypothetical Situation - 10/17/2008 7:28:11 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

This one, I won't stipulate to. It is not a myth that "abuse victims will go crawling back."


Sooner or later most abusive relationships end, and often it is the intervention of social services and the justice system that causes them to end.

I did not stay with my abuser, no one called the police, no one intervened, although I think many suspected what was happening to me....  I left for the love of my UM who was an infant at the time... he deserved better even if I felt I didn't


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 40
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