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Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 7:51:58 PM

bluepanda

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The poor schmuck McCain thrust into the national spotlight last night as an example of the sort of "decent, hardworking American" he represents turns out to be a bullshitter who's so far behind in his taxes the state of Ohio has levied a lien against him.

quote:

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- ``Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes. According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.

Taxes

quote:

An official at Local 50 of the plumber’s union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber’s union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.) “He’s basically playing games with the world,” Thomas Joseph, the local’s business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning....
“All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber,” the union official said, citing a search of government records. “I can’t find that he’s ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page.”

No License

So. He's a fraud who's delinquent on his income taxes. Come to think of it, maybe he is the perfect poster boy for the McCain campaign.

< Message edited by bluepanda -- 10/16/2008 7:56:31 PM >

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 7:56:23 PM

kittinSol

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You couldn't invent that sort of stuff if you wanted to

. McCain's staffers have done it again: no vetting, too much venting.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 7:56:29 PM

Sanity

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Oh-oh. He's not in the union.

Does this mean that now, he's gonna have the mob after his ass? They don't like it when they don't get their cut...

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 7:58:58 PM

slvemike4u

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Just wondering ,did McCain use the same committee to vett Joe the plumber as he did to vett Sarah the V.P. Candidate?

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:03:05 PM

Sanity

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Obama approached Joe the plumber on the street, McCain initially had nothing to do with it. McCain brought the guy up in the debate citing a video that was made, but that's nothing on John McCain if the guy is making a buck without clearing it through all the proper fat-cat union mobsters and state bureaucrats first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Just wondering ,did McCain use the same committee to vett Joe the plumber as he did to vett Sarah the V.P. Candidate?

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:06:25 PM

kittinSol

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McCain should have known better than that, but once again he made a leap for it without thinking first. Seems to be what ails him the most, the inability to reflect before acting.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:13:15 PM

bluepanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You couldn't invent that sort of stuff if you wanted to . McCain's staffers have done it again: no vetting, too much venting.

The sad thing, in this case, is that this time they've fucked up the life of a basically harmless, average guy by putting him and his warts in the international spotlight. OK, the poor fuck is behind in his taxes. He's a single father, trying to make a living and raise his son. Just like tens of millions of other people in this country. We all fall behind in our bills, and a lot of people have tax problems from time to time. Big deal.

But now, McCain's made him a joke. He'll never hear the end of it. Tomorrow's Democratic talking point: "Well, sure, people who don't even pay their taxes probably prefer Senator McCain's tax policies. Our tax plan is aimed at people who actually pay taxes." The poor bastard is going to spend the rest of his life regretting the day he ever opened his mouth. Because McCain's people completely - I mean completely - fucked up another no-brainer. I used to be in politics; not at the national level, but still - no way in hell I would have ever let my candidate use a gambit like this without thoroughly vetting the subject for any potential relevant vulnerabilities. Which MacDonald's did they steal these campaign organizers from?

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:15:09 PM

slvemike4u

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Sanity you can not be serious,your guy built his final debate strategy around using this guys story to hammer Obama.McCain made this guy a star,much like he plucked Sarah from Alaskan oblivion....which one has blown up in his face in a bigger way ...is for someone else to decide.Well back to Joe ,they didn't vett his story they took it at face value.....and that is something a Presidential Candidate can not afford to do.....he cannot afford to look foolish,and he does.Spin all you want ,you guys must do a helluva a twist.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:19:44 PM

Termyn8or

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I'm speechless, alert the media.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:22:52 PM

maybemaybenot

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Soooo, if you aren't in the Plummer's union and you owe back taxes, you can't ask a candidate a question ?

The guy simply attended a rally, asked a question of a candidate and had a very civil discussion with that candidate about an issue.

Gasp !!!! Say it ain't so. Any old citizen, be he in good standing or not, can ask questions of political candidates? Who the hell changed the constitution and allowed us free speech ?

As for all the hoopla today. McCain and Obama created this. Yes, Obaama too. Obama calleed Joe, " Joe the Plummer" in the debate last night and said he wanted to speak to him too. Looks like the Obama camp didn't vet Joe the Plummer either.
Seriously, is this what this election has come to ? The veracity of a candidate hovers on the authenticity of Joe the Plummer. Good God !

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:25:57 PM

kittinSol

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Yep, bluepanda, poor old Joe has been made into a campaign toy - it really sucks for him. If I were a laywer looking for business, I'd be heading in his direction just about now.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:26:29 PM

bluepanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Obama approached Joe the plumber on the street, McCain initially had nothing to do with it. McCain brought the guy up in the debate..

Right. 22... 23 times? He pounced on the poor bastard like a duck on a june bug, sticking him out front and center as a representative of what McCain's campaign is supposed to be all about. He spent more time talking about Joe the Plumber than he did talking about Obama, for pete's sake. "Joe the Plumber this..." "Joe the Plumber that..." "Get your Joe the Plumber souvenir dish towels at mccainforpresident.com..." And now, once again, McCain looks like a bush league chump for not doing even the most basic homework. What a tool.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:31:22 PM

bluepanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Soooo, if you aren't in the Plummer's union and you owe back taxes, you can't ask a candidate a question ?

The guy simply attended a rally, asked a question of a candidate and had a very civil discussion with that candidate about an issue.

Gasp !!!! Say it ain't so. Any old citizen, be he in good standing or not, can ask questions of political candidates? Who the hell changed the constitution and allowed us free speech ?

As for all the hoopla today. McCain and Obama created this. Yes, Obaama too. Obama calleed Joe, " Joe the Plummer" in the debate last night and said he wanted to speak to him too. Looks like the Obama camp didn't vet Joe the Plummer either.
Seriously, is this what this election has come to ? The veracity of a candidate hovers on the authenticity of Joe the Plummer. Good God !

No, the entire issue of McCain's veracity does not at all depend upon the authenticity of Joe the Plumber. Of course not. That's not the point.

The point is, it's one more small but significant indicator that McCain's judgment is highly suspect. Because it was an incredibly stupid, and easily avoidable, blunder by the McCain campaign. It all adds up to make the man look like a monkey who can't do even the simplest thing without fucking it up.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:32:21 PM

Vendaval

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Yes, heard about this guy being delinquent in his taxes on the radio today. He is not a good example to bring up in a debate unless you are talking about catching people like that.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:34:00 PM

bluepanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Yep, bluepanda, poor old Joe has been made into a campaign toy - it really sucks for him. If I were a laywer looking for business, I'd be heading in his direction just about now.

Well, maybe he'll get a reality show or a local radio program out of it. Even if it only lasts 15 minutes, he could turn it into a positive experience and maybe get his taxes paid off. Who knows? He seemed like a reasonably wellspoken guy last night, not a bad sort. It would be nice if somehow this fiasco can turn into a positive for him.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:44:42 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Obama approached Joe the plumber on the street, McCain initially had nothing to do with it. McCain brought the guy up in the debate citing a video that was made, but that's nothing on John McCain if the guy is making a buck without clearing it through all the proper fat-cat union mobsters and state bureaucrats first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Just wondering ,did McCain use the same committee to vett Joe the plumber as he did to vett Sarah the V.P. Candidate?

Sanity,I might not have vetted this and got all my ducks in a row....but wasn't it you who started a thread earlier today with the heading....Joe the Plumber:Obama tax plan" infuriates me"....that was you right,Now all of a sudden Joe the plumber isn't important...you are as consistant has your candidate Sanity,I see the attraction now.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:49:51 PM

Sanity

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That was the title of the ABC News article that I posted, mike. The TOPIC has been Obama's Marxist agenda because of what Obama said to the guy. THAT'S what the debate has been about, that's what McCain rightfully brought up last night - Obama's Marxist agenda.

This has never been about Joe at all, and it's striking if you thought that it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4uSanity,I might not have vetted this and got all my ducks in a row....but wasn't it you who started a thread earlier today with the heading....Joe the Plumber:Obama tax plan" infuriates me"....that was you right,Now all of a sudden Joe the plumber isn't important...you are as consistant has your candidate Sanity,I see the attraction now.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 10/16/2008 8:54:07 PM >

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 8:54:02 PM

BitaTruble

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I had a tax issue with the State of Utah that took me three years to resolve. They claimed I had failed to pay taxes to them on earned income. They were absolutely correct. I had not paid any taxes on earned income to the state of Utah because I had earned that income in California, had paid the taxes in California and happened to move to Utah in the middle of the year. After months and months of back and forth, I finally got the issue resolved and received the refund I was due but it certainly would have looked bad for me had I chosen to run for office at that time! I guess I could have been called a tax dodger, too, if no one took the time to hear my side of the story.

As to whether or not he's a fraud, I don't know enough about him or the laws surrounding his profession to know whether or not that he is currently following the regulations which he may be required to follow. I suppose it makes for good television but whether or not there is any truth to these things remains to be seen. In my opinion, whether true or not it doesn't make a rats ass bit of difference. Obama's tax plan is public knowledge, easy enough to find on his website and regardless of who asked the question, the question itself is legit albeit seems a bit silly since all the information one would need to answer it is available for anyone who cares to find out.

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 9:11:33 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That was the title of the ABC News article that I posted, mike. The TOPIC has been Obama's Marxist agenda because of what Obama said to the guy. THAT'S what the debate has been about, that's what McCain rightfully brought up last night - Obama's Marxist agenda.

This has never been about Joe at all, and it's striking if you thought that it was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4uSanity,I might not have vetted this and got all my ducks in a row....but wasn't it you who started a thread earlier today with the heading....Joe the Plumber:Obama tax plan" infuriates me"....that was you right,Now all of a sudden Joe the plumber isn't important...you are as consistant has your candidate Sanity,I see the attraction now.

Sanity you seem to be having some difficulty with the facts,much like your Candidate does.In the interest of clarity I will reprint in it's entirety post #7 from your thread.Tell us again how this was never about Joe.......
____________________________________________________________
Obama might as well be holding a gun to Joe's head, taking the guy's wallet, then going down to the railroad tracks and handing out fifty dollar bills to all the hobos hanging out down there.

There is really very little difference.

Where in the Constitution is a President empowered to do that? Where does it say that the Government gets to decide who makes how much money. Joe's argument is that he can do more for the economy with his own money by expanding his business and hiring more employees than Barack Obama possibly could by taking that money away and giving it to some bloated federal bureaucracy...

Which is dead on right.

Barack Obama's plan will only serve to drive entrepreneurs offshore, which is something we really need less of, not more.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Joe The Plumber - A Fraud And A Tax Dodger - 10/16/2008 9:27:33 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluepanda

The poor schmuck McCain thrust into the national spotlight last night as an example of the sort of "decent, hardworking American" he represents turns out to be a bullshitter who's so far behind in his taxes the state of Ohio has levied a lien against him.

quote:

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- ``Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes. According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.

Taxes

quote:

An official at Local 50 of the plumber’s union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber’s union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.) “He’s basically playing games with the world,” Thomas Joseph, the local’s business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning....
“All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber,” the union official said, citing a search of government records. “I can’t find that he’s ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page.”

No License

So. He's a fraud who's delinquent on his income taxes. Come to think of it, maybe he is the perfect poster boy for the McCain campaign.

Well, thank god we got that cleared up! Whew! I was kind of worried....

Here I was...sitting at my desk....sweating and fretting over the background and history of a middle-class man who has absolutely no connection to the Presidential race outside of daring to express his opinions and getting mentioned by McCain!

Someone should tell the media that Osama Bin Laden hates socialism. They will be out front of his cave tomorrow morning interviews members of his group about his Afghanistan tax history! (All that time they have NOT spent digging into Obama's past will at least go to some good purpose)

The logical fallacy of ad hominem. Attack the character of the man to divert the attention away from the opinion.

I can look forward to NOT hearing about the integrity of Obama's tax plan while watching the media destroy the life of someone inconsequential.

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