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RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:27:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

UT... I use the word FUCK...and it makes me a demagogue...??? 


No.. equating the word liberal with a curse word is what makes you one.

You do understand that attacking political candidates is par for the course in an election year... but stating things like only the only good americans are americans from red states isn't? Doing things like that makes a person a demagogue, not attacking a political candidate or a party... but attacking all the people who identify with a political party or candidate is demagoguery.... such as equating all liberals with a curse word, like "liberal" shouldn't be allowed in polite conversation, or like the only good americans are republican voting ones.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:28:48 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		MadRabbit,have you ever considered you yourself ,by dint of post's I have seen here ,qualify for point B of that last post.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:30:35 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Isn't, by it's very nature, McCain's health care plan also socialism?


Where did I say anything about health care? What I said was "My opinion of who Barrack Obama is, based on what I have gathered over the last two year, is that of a socialist".

You can disagree with me on that opinion. Go ahead.

Look, on the bright side, at least I don't think he is a liar like all my conservative buddies who aren't voting for him.



_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:36:19 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

MadRabbit,have you ever considered you yourself ,by dint of post's I have seen here ,qualify for point B of that last post.


I tend to have strong opinions on certain subjects which I can get pretty intense about, but nah, not really.

Mostly when I get aggressive with people, it's because I don't like them or because they try and demonize my posts from the get go.

Or they spend all their time telling everyone else who disagrees with them how silly and stupid they are for thinking differently.

Those people I have no problem being a dick to.

So no, based on a whole history of having very civil discussions with people who have drastically different viewpoints with me, I don't consider myself to be in part B.

The Christian discussion group I go to every Monday night as an Athiest keeps inviting me back and wanting to talk with me, so I can't be all that bad.

Maybe you've just only seen my bad side. I wonder why that is....

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 10/19/2008 2:37:45 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:39:31 PM   
Naga


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

...his voting record, speeches and endorsements by anti-gun groups pointing out that Obama is lying to get the vote?


Evidence? [Not that they've claimed this, but that it's true.]



What evidence do I require other than his past voting record and claims? More to the point, how can I have evidence of future behavior? If you are asking for that level of evidence, I can't even prove the sun will rise tomorrow.

quote:



quote:


Do you earn over $250,000/yr. after deductions?


That is a rather personal question.

quote:


Yes, but directly relevant, since you've claimed you're worried about higher taxes.

In short, your taxes will likely DECREASE under Obama.

If that's a bad thing, vote for someone else.




My taxes will NOT decrease under Obama. He has already stated that he would let the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire. That would be a tax increase of 24% for those making $30K or so. How is that a tax cut for anyone?

Again, Obama is being dishonest in his claims. It is why I can't vote for him.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 2:57:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

e would let the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire.


He plans on writing a new tax code...

And I have to wonder something... if you supported the war, who exactly is supposed to pay for that?

And if you supported Bush borrowing heavy from China, who is supposed to pay for that?

You know, I have this son who is a young adult, and he didn't get a vote in all of this, but it is surely his generation that is picking up the tab... or do you think we can continue to pay for wars without ever paying the bill?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Naga)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:01:14 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Naga,

So we've established (1) you have no evidence, and (2) you plan to vote to raise your taxes under a misunderstanding of McCain's and Obama's proposals---easily verified by multiple sources. Google away.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:28:03 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

The danger for  Conservatives trying to polorize American society is that they may get
it.




....extremely good point. Goes for both sides of course, but it's an excellent point.


You always try to be fair and that`s all well and good,mate.

But can you give an example(s) of a liberal or democrat trying to divide or polorize folks?

Like Sarah Palin's comment in North Carolina that she loves visiting "pro-America" parts of the country.

http://www.dailyadvance.com/news/state/biden-mocks-palin-says-entire-nation-is-patriotic-191647.html

Biden`s response was stellar.We are all patriots and every part of America counts,even (the pro-successions like Palin from) Alaska.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:32:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Naga,

So we've established (1) you have no evidence, and (2) you plan to vote to raise your taxes under a misunderstanding of McCain's and Obama's proposals---easily verified by multiple sources. Google away.



I`ve never understood why working/middle class folks vote against their own best self-interests,and vote for cons.

I think the loony-bin calling themselves the NRA,scaring the bejesus out of good folks has something to do with it.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:37:55 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


You always try to be fair and that`s all well and good,mate.

But can you give an example(s) of a liberal or democrat trying to divide or polorize folks?



.......well, i haven't been keeping score, but whenever someone on the left uses the F word (fascist) it makes it easier for someone on the right to use the S word (socialist).

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:44:08 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


You always try to be fair and that`s all well and good,mate.

But can you give an example(s) of a liberal or democrat trying to divide or polorize folks?



.......well, i haven't been keeping score, but whenever someone on the left uses the F word (fascist) it makes it easier for someone on the right to use the S word (socialist).


You can call me a socialist all you want...lol... if I had to choose between being a fascist and a socialist... well... it is not that hard to choose.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:48:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

MadRabbit,have you ever considered you yourself ,by dint of post's I have seen here ,qualify for point B of that last post.


I tend to have strong opinions on certain subjects which I can get pretty intense about, but nah, not really.

Mostly when I get aggressive with people, it's because I don't like them or because they try and demonize my posts from the get go.

Or they spend all their time telling everyone else who disagrees with them how silly and stupid they are for thinking differently.

Those people I have no problem being a dick to.

So no, based on a whole history of having very civil discussions with people who have drastically different viewpoints with me, I don't consider myself to be in part B.

The Christian discussion group I go to every Monday night as an Athiest keeps inviting me back and wanting to talk with me, so I can't be all that bad.

Maybe you've just only seen my bad side. I wonder why that is....
Mr.bunny are you trying to say you don't like me?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 3:50:59 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

MadRabbit,have you ever considered you yourself ,by dint of post's I have seen here ,qualify for point B of that last post.


I tend to have strong opinions on certain subjects which I can get pretty intense about, but nah, not really.

Mostly when I get aggressive with people, it's because I don't like them or because they try and demonize my posts from the get go.

Or they spend all their time telling everyone else who disagrees with them how silly and stupid they are for thinking differently.

Those people I have no problem being a dick to.

So no, based on a whole history of having very civil discussions with people who have drastically different viewpoints with me, I don't consider myself to be in part B.

The Christian discussion group I go to every Monday night as an Athiest keeps inviting me back and wanting to talk with me, so I can't be all that bad.

Maybe you've just only seen my bad side. I wonder why that is....
Mr.bunny are you trying to say you don't like me?


Yes, that's exactly what I am trying to say, but to be honest, I am slowly starting to come around a bit. You have your moments.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:03:29 PM   
Naga


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He plans on writing a new tax code...


I have seen his tax code, it resemble Hoover's. And we know what he did to the economy.

quote:

And I have to wonder something... if you supported the war, who exactly is supposed to pay for that?

And if you supported Bush borrowing heavy from China, who is supposed to pay for that?



We should not be borrowing from anyone, never mind China. Iraq owes us a good chunk of change, they can pay the bills.

quote:

You know, I have this son who is a young adult, and he didn't get a vote in all of this, but it is surely his generation that is picking up the tab... or do you think we can continue to pay for wars without ever paying the bill?


Just as we paid for the previous generation and are still paying for them. I think there would have been a far greater bill if we had not gone into Iraq, but that is another discussion.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:04:16 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I must be slipping in my old age

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:05:47 PM   
Naga


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Naga,

So we've established (1) you have no evidence, and (2) you plan to vote to raise your taxes under a misunderstanding of McCain's and Obama's proposals---easily verified by multiple sources. Google away.



No, we have established that you have created a standard of evidence that requires a crystal ball and that I am capable of researching things.

< Message edited by Naga -- 10/19/2008 4:06:21 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:13:01 PM   
Naga


Posts: 147
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`ve never understood why working/middle class folks vote against their own best self-interests,and vote for cons.


I don't think that is a valid assumption. I think rather it is that people who actually work for a living, don't believe in bread and circuses, and want to hold onto their freedoms vote against socialism. I hope that does not change with this election, but I fear it will.

quote:

I think the loony-bin calling themselves the NRA,scaring the bejesus out of good folks has something to do with it.


How is a group focused on protecting the most important right we have a "loony-bin"? And since it is obvious that liberals are focused on removing that right, it is certainly not paranoia.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:16:32 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


You always try to be fair and that`s all well and good,mate.

But can you give an example(s) of a liberal or democrat trying to divide or polorize folks?



.......well, i haven't been keeping score, but whenever someone on the left uses the F word (fascist) it makes it easier for someone on the right to use the S word (socialist).





If only "the left" or "the right" were monolithic,you`d have a point.

But they aren`t and now,today,the extremist tactics are coming from would be elected officials.Candidates for president of the United States.

That kinda out ranks a lib or con blogger or a poster on CM.
Their bar is a little higher.

If you`re the leader,you`re supposed to be the responsible one.And certainly not the one inciting,like Palin and McCain have.

But if it`s so important to imagine that both sides do these horrible things,so be it.

I`ll point out that they haven`t.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/19/2008 4:22:09 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:23:52 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

My taxes will NOT decrease under Obama. He has already stated that he would let the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire. That would be a tax increase of 24% for those making $30K or so. How is that a tax cut for anyone?

Again, Obama is being dishonest in his claims. It is why I can't vote for him.


What? 

A 24% tax increase on $30K, which is at what, a 15% tax rate now?

So, someone has convinced you that a person making $30k will be taxed at 39%? 

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/19/2008 4:31:05 PM >

(in reply to Naga)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress... - 10/19/2008 4:24:41 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

the most important right we have

With all due respect, i am much more fond of the rights of free speech, religion, voting, and the press than the bearing of arms.  It's in my top 10...but most important???  i think that may be stretching it a bit for most.

~thomas jefferslut

btw...welcome to the boards, i know it's been 20 posts, but better late than never.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to Naga)
Profile   Post #: 60
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