Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress"

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BitaTruble -> Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 3:27:02 AM)
I kept hearing from many people - including John McCain - that Obama has the "most liberal voting record in Congress". That sounded a little off to me given his short tenure in the Senate and his busy schedule running for president so I decided to do some research. Overall, out of 100 Senators, Obama ranks 27th. Liberal, but not the most liberal. Among democrats, he's pretty middle of the pack. The only catagory in which he was ranked as 'most liberal' was in housing. He shares that rank with 22 other Senators probably because he only ever cast one vote on the housing issue and it had to do with the bailout package which he did vote for as did John McCain. In fact, John McCain accused Obama of holding up the vote on that bill, so in my opinion, that one should probably not be used against him. I'm not sure what's so bad about being a liberal. It's almost as if it's a dirty word or something. When it comes to social issues I'm very liberal. When it comes to fiscal issues, I'm mostly moderate leaning slightly to the right. Anyway, just another day in the land of elections. [8D] Ranking Progressive Voters Oh, and as a little treat the Flip-O-Meter! What a hoot. heheh.. Fodder for either side!

corysub -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 4:20:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I kept hearing from many people - including John McCain - that Obama has the "most liberal voting record in Congress". That sounded a little off to me given his short tenure in the Senate and his busy schedule running for president so I decided to do some research. Overall, out of 100 Senators, Obama ranks 27th. Liberal, but not the most liberal. Among democrats, he's pretty middle of the pack. The only catagory in which he was ranked as 'most liberal' was in housing. He shares that rank with 22 other Senators probably because he only ever cast one vote on the housing issue and it had to do with the bailout package which he did vote for as did John McCain. In fact, John McCain accused Obama of holding up the vote on that bill, so in my opinion, that one should probably not be used against him. I'm not sure what's so bad about being a liberal. It's almost as if it's a dirty word or something. When it comes to social issues I'm very liberal. When it comes to fiscal issues, I'm mostly moderate leaning slightly to the right. Anyway, just another day in the land of elections. [8D] Ranking Progressive Voters Oh, and as a little treat the Flip-O-Meter! What a hoot. heheh.. Fodder for either side! I think how you describe yourself would be how most Americans see themselves. There is nothing inherently wrong with the "word" liberal" or the "word" conservative. It is the "extreme" of either conviction that is not only wrong but oftentimes dangerous. Obama's "liberalism" was molded as a young man working for disciplies of Saul Olinsky where he first learned "Coummunity Activism" working in Chicago. After his election defeat the first time for State Senate, he worked hard to improve his "image" in the streets and was elected where he might have the record, I'm sure someone will correct me with facts if I'm wrong, of MISSING or voting "present" well over a hundred times, and did so on legislation that in many cases was passed in both houses of the Illinois legisature by unanimous votes. These would include voting "present" for Bills; SB853. a bill permitting the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services to report suspected child abuse while protecting the identity of the facility or person providing the information. (Who would be against this??) It wa approved by the Senate 54-0-1 HP-338 to prohibit convicted sex offenders from serving on school boards. The bill, was approved by the Senate by a 58-0-0 vote. Obama did not vote...(Why?) HB-1588, a bill in committee requiring criminals to serve consecutive sentences for separate crimes involving convictions for severe bodily harm or sexual assault but didn't vote at all when the measure came to the floor. (Why would he not even vote on this legislation?) The bill was passed in the Senate by a 54-0-0 vote and the House by a 118-0-0 vote. And on and on and on..including him voting "NO" on bills allowing police officers to execute warrants and enter buildings without knocking if there was a reasonable belief a weapon would be used against them; voted "present" on legislation requiring that minors who commit gun crimes on or near a school be prosecuted as adults; and did not vote on a bill requiring fingerprint background checks on school bus drivers. In the United States Senate, Obama voted WITH his party 95% and 96% of the time according to Congressional Quarterly, a real "independent"..yea, right! As far as his winning the coveted award for being rated most liberal in the Senate, this "honor" was awarded to Sen. Obama by the Natinal Journal, while they rated Hillary 16th. I didn't count his votes..others can do that... http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/ Again, nothing inherently bad about being liberal...unless you carry it too extremes. With no track record of authoring any profound legislation (sure he has attached his name to numerous bills)..how are we to judge this man? And so some of us look at the friends he cultivated over the past two decades, the organizations he has associated with and supported for a clue to the direction he would lead the country. Campaign platforms are mostly written for ten second sound-bites....its our judgement of the core principles of the person who would lead us, and each of us deciding who believes mostly, if not everything, in what we hold to be truths, that should determine our vote in November,nothing more...nothing less.

Lorr47 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 6:00:01 AM)
The right seems to view the label "Liberal" as an invitation to call the person a "Marxist/Communist." The distance between "Liberal" and "Marxist/Communist" is enormous. The distance between Bush (conservative) and "facism" is enormous. Speak to a true "facist" such as held sway in South America and you will run screaming to the nearest American Embassy. Killing people who disagree with them is their idea of "hard ball politics." Speak with a "Marxist/Communist" and you receive a like response. Does either McCain or Obamma fit into such extremes. No. However, the danger with labeling at this point in time is that citizens are hurting and extremely frustrated. When citizens cannot feed their children; cannot obtain medical treatment for their children; cannot find a job; have lost their savings, they tend to look at extremes. Look at the Weimer Republic just prior to Hitler. Presently Conservatives are the best advertising extremism has ever had. The more Conservatives make spurious attacks on Obamma, the more maintream such organizations as SDS become. And, you had to be there but SDS was extremely seductive. The danger for Conservatives trying to polorize American society is that they may get it.

Owner59 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 6:25:49 AM)
This is boiler-plate con rhetoric. If you look back,Hillary was said to have the most LVR.John Kerry? The most LVR.Al Gore...guess who had the most LVR that year?Before him,Dole and Bush Sr. tried to hammer Clinton as being liberal liberal liberal. It`s just one more standard BS line that gets broke out every election. Just who is rating this and what the criteria,anyway?[8D] Most cons live in an alternate reality to begin with and aren`t objective about this stuff.Anyone is a liberal.The media is liberal and part of an unseen liberal conspiracy.The schools and colleges are liberal,the laws and judges are to liberal. The good news is liberal is no longer a dirty word. As a proud liberal(and a ranking soldier in the secret liberal conspiracy [;)])I can and will defend liberals and liberal thought,with zeal.

corysub -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 6:51:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 This is boiler-plate con rhetoric. If you look back,Hillary was said to have the most LVR.John Kerry? The most LVR.Al Gore...guess who had the most LVR that year?Before him,Dole and Bush Sr. tried to hammer Clinton as being liberal liberal liberal. It`s just one more standard BS line that gets broke out every election. Just who is rating this and what the criteria,anyway?[8D] Most cons live in an alternate reality to begin with and aren`t objective about this stuff.Anyone is a liberal.The media is liberal and part of an unseen liberal conspiracy.The schools and colleges are liberal,the laws and judges are to liberal. The good news is liberal is no longer a dirty word. As a proud liberal(and a ranking soldier in the secret liberal conspiracy [;)])I can and will defend liberals and liberal thought,with zeal. Neither is "fuck"...and every comedian looking for cheap jokes uses it...does that make it a good word? As for as who ranks politicians...the source that is most quoted is listed below: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/ You might check with you polysci prof...

Owner59 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 6:57:33 AM)
As someone who uses liberal as a pejorative,I question your objectivity.

pahunkboy -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:00:34 AM)
59, I recall how Hillary, Gore and Kerry were all all ALLL very bad, BAD BADDDDDDDDDDDD liberals! the most! it seems if one has an attention span anymore that the person is insane. since we recall- we are the nut jobs

Owner59 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:29:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy 59, I recall how Hillary, Gore and Kerry were all all ALLL very bad, BAD BADDDDDDDDDDDD liberals! the most! it seems if one has an attention span anymore that the person is insane. since we recall- we are the nut jobs It`s a code word,PAhunk. Socialism means Communism. Elitist equals not in touch with normal values. God forbid you`re an "ultra liberal","bleeding heart or a flaming liberal" The cons tried for years to make liberal a dirty word.Same with words like Atheist and homosexual,feminism and foreign,etc. But they only work with certain people,and there`s less and less of them every year(as the die out). When Obama gets Powell`s endorsement,Warren Buffet`s endorsement, and many other mainstream types endorsing him,it will kill the argument that Obama is a scary flaming liberal.

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:32:42 AM)
Elitist also means "we can't match your programs, so we'll tell people smart and insight is bad, out of touch." That approach also implies, "America needs dumb leaders, just like us!" but that never seems to occur to anyone.

DomKen -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:34:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub Obama's "liberalism" was molded as a young man working for disciplies of Saul Olinsky where he first learned "Coummunity Activism" working in Chicago. After his election defeat the first time for State Senate, he worked hard to improve his "image" in the streets Just making stuff up there Cory? Why?

Owner59 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:38:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: corysub Obama's "liberalism" was molded as a young man working for disciplies of Saul Olinsky where he first learned "Coummunity Activism" working in Chicago. After his election defeat the first time for State Senate, he worked hard to improve his "image" in the streets Just making stuff up there Cory? Why? Nope.He`s just parroting Rush/Hannity`s line. Obama`s a scary guy,trust me,scary,don`t do it,he`s scary.[8D]

bipolarber -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 7:55:00 AM)
I had to smirk at the use of the term "flaming liberal." Funny, most bigots use the modifier "flaming" in reference to gays. Again, they cast the ideology of actually considering that "all men are created equal" as something weaker than their own. Which seems to be, "only the rich and powerful matter, everyone else is chaff."

rulemylife -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:15:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The good news is liberal is no longer a dirty word. Neither is "fuck"...and every comedian looking for cheap jokes uses it...does that make it a good word? No, fuck is a very, very bad word that the mere utterance of will cause you to burn in the fiery pit of damnation for all eternity. (Uh-oh, did I just really fuck myself by saying that?) The only acceptable, God-fearing way to use the word is as an adjective preceding the noun liberal, as in "he's a fucking liberal".

SilverMark -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:25:50 AM)
Killing Me here rulemylife.....absolutely laughing!....

Owner59 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:27:08 AM)
I think fuck is a beautiful word. Slut,... a compliment. Cum,..a very very good word. Put them all together and what d`ya get?

BlackPhx -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:34:57 AM)
Actually Cory, unanimous means every one participated and voted, all members. While it is easy to say that he voted Present on certain bills, one would actually have to examine the proposed bills in their entirety and ask him why he voted that way. On the surface, (using one of your examples) "SB853. a bill permitting the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services to report suspected child abuse while protecting the identity of the facility or person providing the information. (Who would be against this??) It was approved by the Senate 54-0-1" might seem like a bill that should be supported. However are you aware of how many non-custodial parents allege child abuse or parents involved in custody battles. We do have the right under our laws to face our accusers, this is part of our Bill of Rights, you remember this document right? You are also aware of course that there are already laws in place that provide for anonymous tips, and protection from prosecution for doctors and officials of the government which IDCFS is. By the way investigating and reporting child abuse is the Mandate of the IDCFS. More importantly are you aware of what else was attached to that bill? The Bailout that just passed was loaded down with "pork". Pork I am sure both Obama and McCain would have liked to have had a chance to debate and remove or abstain from the vote in protest over. It was also within Bush's ability to line item veto those items, BUT it was the price he agreed to to get the Bill passed ASAP and we are the ones who will pay that bill as it comes due. I am highly unlikely to ever condemn a man for voting his conscience. I vote mine. Police already have the ability to enter a building where they suspect weaponry using extreme caution, bullet proof vests, shields etc. It would of course be horrid if they did this on the wrong door and ended up killing an old woman or a child ended up in harms way. Police don't make mistakes, and there are no "bad" officers, we can disband IAD and shooting boards. We do have a current situation here in florida where an officer acting on an anonymous tip that some people were playing cards and gambling in public, chased one of the suspects through a housing development where children were playing and people were enjoying the weather, discharging his gun at the suspect as he chased him. Oh and lets not forget Homeland Security can override ALL of your Constitutional Rights. enter your home, bug your phones, freeze your bank accounts, arrest you and deny you legal representation, all without any proof that you have done anything wrong. shall we now give that power to the police as well? Frankly I don't want to end up dead because they executed a warrent on the wrong address and decided that the knife ai was cutting up a chicken with was a threat. HP-338 to prohibit convicted sex offenders from serving on school boards. The bill, was approved by the Senate by a 58-0-0 vote. Obama did not vote...(Why?) You are a sex offender Cory..as am I, and all the rest of us here on this board. Depending on where you are in this country it is illegal to own a dildo, vibrator, view internet porn, beat or be beaten, etc. Each and everyone of us is just one mistake away from a histerical charge by someone and a conviction, making us a registered Sex offender. That includes anyone who has been arrested for prostitution, using a prostitute or in the not so distant past been convicted of homosexual acts or solicitation. Yet that offence may have been 20 years ago or 5. You may never have served a day in jail or probation, just paid a fine. That law would have prohibited you from serving on your child's school board. Do we know if he argued against the bill for being overly broad? Was it badly worded, could it have been abused, did it abrogate constitutional law or carry "pork" with it? we would have to see this law as it stood and was passed and ask Obama to know. It is always easy to know HOW someone Voted or Not in government, but you have to ask them WHY to know why they voted the way they did. Frankly with the proliferation of laws these days that regulate where you can smoke, how you can die, when you can get out of the military, etc. I like the idea that someone is still a consciencious objector..Present to me says there are parts of this Bill I like and others I don't, but I am not going to put my name to this. poenkitten

SilverMark -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:41:55 AM)
And just because I can....cory, the mans name is Sol Alinsky.....perhaps if you read something aside from a blog on the man you might spell his name correctly.

BitaTruble -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:43:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub Neither is "fuck"...and every comedian looking for cheap jokes uses it...does that make it a good word? Words are neither good nor bad. It's the intent in using them which matters. You can use the word 'lady' in a pejorative manner and you can use the word 'slut' in a manner which will just thrill some of us to pieces. For the record.. I think 'fuck' is almost always, a very good word. [8D]

lronitulstahp -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 8:45:01 AM)
FUCK...she's a smart lady..... ~impressed slut

popeye1250 -> RE: Obama: "Most liberal voting record in Congress" (10/19/2008 11:53:53 AM)
It doesn't matter that Obama grew up poor, that was then this is now. As the Editor of the Harvard review he is an elitist even among lawyers! Look at his positions, amnesty for illegal aliens, doubling "foreign aid", and also his voting record, he's more "liberal" than Ted Kennedy!

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