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Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 1:23:07 PM   
Rogue86


Posts: 42
Joined: 2/10/2008
Status: offline 		".... the boy enters the room tentatively, nervous and self-conscious.  he covers his exposed genitals briefly, before before dropping his hands to his side, kneels with legs spread and head up and eyes cast downwards, waiting for permission to speak.  It is given.  'Sir, i don't think things are working out.  i think You are too extreme for me.  When You spanked me yesterday, You struck me on my thighs several times - not just my butt.  i think i need to find another Sir who understands me.'   I respond: 'you have not revealed this as a limit before now.  Have I not respected every limit you have stated prior to this?'  The boy flushes red.  'Yes Sir... but i think it should be obvious that spanking involves my butt only.  Since You don't agree, I'm afraid of what else you might do that surprises me.  i wish to be released from Your service...' "

The above exchange took place a few months ago with a submissive boy who came to Me with, among other things, a self-stated 'love' for corporal punishment.  Further discussion revealed that he was not unhappy with the other aspects of his service, or with Me.  And yet, even when I offered to respect this newly-divulged limit (now that I knew about it) he was still uncomfortable with My 'incompatible definition' of spanking and still wanted to be released from his contract - which, with regret, I did.

Has anyone else run across this - where a difference in what is 'appropriate' has resulted in a dissolution of contract?  It was extremely frustrating for Me.  I pride myself in respecting limits.  Never before have I encountered such a restrictive interpretation of spanking, nor do I particularly want to have to draw lines on a 'boy' like cuts of beef with "no strike zones" (outside of the obvious danger zones like kidneys, hands, feet, neck, head etc).    Was I that extreme?  Really?  In that instance I certainly don't think so...




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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 2:21:28 PM   
monywildcat


Posts: 452
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		Perhaps he was not aware of how he was going to react to the beating on the thighs, until it happened.  Sometimes, we don't discover what is a "hard limit" until it is experienced in real life.  For example I didn't think to tell Daddy that pain involving my hands was bad juju until it happened the other night, I nearly passed out from the pain!  Not in a good way either.  However, we were able to discuss and agree that inflicting pain on my hands and wrists was all to the bad. 

Without knowing the exact nature of the impact on the thighs, I am unable to say if that was too extreme.  Sounds like you just didn't know that you would get such a negative reaction.  On the flip side, perhaps the boy should have been willing to discuss this with you prior to asking for release.  Especially since he had no other areas of unhappiness? 

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 2:22:07 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		It does not sound as though the problem is what you state as the problem.

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 2:56:46 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		The only problem I can see is that you both assumed you had the same idea of what entailed a spanking.  Spanking would seem to me to be a universally understood activity but this example just high lights the need to ask for the other persons definitions, what does it mean when they say “x-y-z”.   I had a similar but opposite experience, where I was enjoying what I considered a nice warm-up and the top got all upset and started apologizing because my ass was so red--we were definitely not on the same page!
However, I don’t understand his unwillingness once you offered to abide by his limits and perhaps there was more that he didn’t share.  That’s on him, not you,. 

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 3:09:13 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The problem was that they both assumed they were speaking the same language.  Rather than laughing over that assumption and making it work, you get overreacting defensiveness.

Let the butterfly go and seek her spanking bliss- with a stern reminder that next time she needs to be explicit in her limitations and not make assumptions.  Novices often enter the kink world thinking it's just like their small mind has always fantasized.  It tends to take a few knocks before they realize the world is a little bit larger than their own ideas.

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 3:32:37 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think he wasn't as into you as you were into him.


otherwise he would have tried to work things out.

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 4:09:51 PM   
badlilthang


Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

When You spanked me yesterday, You struck me on my thighs several times - not just my butt. i think i need to find another Sir who understands me.' I respond: 'you have not revealed this as a limit before now. Have I not respected every limit you have stated prior to this?' The boy flushes red. 'Yes Sir... but i think it should be obvious that spanking involves my butt only. Since You don't agree, I'm afraid of what else you might do that surprises me. i wish to be released from Your service...' "
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue86

***it seems to me he had already made up his mind here - of leaving. Why it should be obvious that spanking only includes the butt is not so obvious to me...You had not disrespected any if his limits earlier, so why would You not at least listen this time also?***


Further discussion revealed that he was not unhappy with the other aspects of his service, or with Me.  And yet, even when I offered to respect this newly-divulged limit (now that I knew about it) he was still uncomfortable with My 'incompatible definition' of spanking and still wanted to be released from his contract - which, with regret, I did.

***something else is going on here - that he will not admit/reveal to You***

Has anyone else run across this - where a difference in what is 'appropriate' has resulted in a dissolution of contract?  It was extremely frustrating for Me.  I pride myself in respecting limits.  Never before have I encountered such a restrictive interpretation of spanking, nor do I particularly want to have to draw lines on a 'boy' like cuts of beef with "no strike zones" (outside of the obvious danger zones like kidneys, hands, feet, neck, head etc).    Was I that extreme?  Really?  In that instance I certainly don't think so...


***i do not think You were extreme here - of course this is impossible for us to say since we have no idea how hard You hit - but why did he not speak up during the spanking, i wonder?***


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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 4:27:49 PM   
spankablemilf


Posts: 57
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline 		This sounds nuts to me, I think he wanted out just for the sake of getting out if you ask me...

I have to accept a spanking on any part of my body if my Sir desires that.  I don't see how he could have thought any different unless he had ulterior motives.  But, that's just my take.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue86

".... the boy enters the room tentatively, nervous and self-conscious.  he covers his exposed genitals briefly, before before dropping his hands to his side, kneels with legs spread and head up and eyes cast downwards, waiting for permission to speak.  It is given.  'Sir, i don't think things are working out.  i think You are too extreme for me.  When You spanked me yesterday, You struck me on my thighs several times - not just my butt.  i think i need to find another Sir who understands me.'   I respond: 'you have not revealed this as a limit before now.  Have I not respected every limit you have stated prior to this?'  The boy flushes red.  'Yes Sir... but i think it should be obvious that spanking involves my butt only.  Since You don't agree, I'm afraid of what else you might do that surprises me.  i wish to be released from Your service...' "

The above exchange took place a few months ago with a submissive boy who came to Me with, among other things, a self-stated 'love' for corporal punishment.  Further discussion revealed that he was not unhappy with the other aspects of his service, or with Me.  And yet, even when I offered to respect this newly-divulged limit (now that I knew about it) he was still uncomfortable with My 'incompatible definition' of spanking and still wanted to be released from his contract - which, with regret, I did.

Has anyone else run across this - where a difference in what is 'appropriate' has resulted in a dissolution of contract?  It was extremely frustrating for Me.  I pride myself in respecting limits.  Never before have I encountered such a restrictive interpretation of spanking, nor do I particularly want to have to draw lines on a 'boy' like cuts of beef with "no strike zones" (outside of the obvious danger zones like kidneys, hands, feet, neck, head etc).    Was I that extreme?  Really?  In that instance I certainly don't think so...




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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 4:48:02 PM   
Rogue86


Posts: 42
Joined: 2/10/2008
Status: offline 		In retrospect, I think that there *was* more going on than he was willing to share.  I much prefer direct and honest statements.  "This is a limit for me.  Let's move on..."  or "This is not what I thought it was going to be, and I need to re-think what I want and go find it."  or even "I think you're an asshole, I"m outta here" is preferrable to the confusing bit o' crap I got. 


_____________________________

Rogue
-----------
"It's not punishment if you LIKE it."

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 4:59:39 PM   
Rogue86


Posts: 42
Joined: 2/10/2008
Status: offline 		I'm all for communication, but there are so many variables involved in wiitwd - you can't anticipate everything whether you're Dom or sub.  Missteps will occur - it's how you respond to them that makes the difference.   You learn about each other not just from talking, but from doing.  If a script is to be followed, what happens to spontaneity and creativity?  Even in long-term relationships where you know each other very well challenges will present themselves.  For example: The most skilled flogger will at some point have a bad throw and wrap the falls, or miss the mark.  It happens.  Does this mean anything less than perfection will end it all?  It shouldn't.

I'd say it's not just talking about it before you play, but during if neccessary, and certainly afterwards.




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Rogue
-----------
"It's not punishment if you LIKE it."

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 5:04:43 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Its been my experience that expecting a "direct and honest statement" from most "submissives" is expecting too much.  I used to be very patient and caring when these sorts of things happened, expending a lot of time considering what might really be going on, trying to discern from whatever clues were available what the truth might actually be.

These days I just kick them out and move on to the next prospect.  Saves me an enormous amount of time, energy and emotional upheaval.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 6:00:52 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		It takes all sorts. What was he expecting? Spanking by numbers?

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 6:03:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
I think he's "just not that into you".

You may want to send out for a few Oprah tapes.

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 6:14:56 PM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		So sorry to hear of your loss...

Perceptions is everything .  It does seem that his and your perceptions about spanking were totally different.  Cause for asking for release? in MO, no.
Cause for seeing a need for better clarification, yes.   Now i'm thinking the next time if ever, i have some play time, to show up with bulls eye targets on my body :)  thanks for the idea!  


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OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 6:34:39 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		I may be mis-reading the tone of your post but I did not intend to put you on the defensive.
Mis-communication, mis-steps are all a part of being human.  The boy in question seems to lack the ability to let things go, it seems he was unwilling to accept his part in the problem.  You'll have that. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 6:38:28 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

quote:

When You spanked me yesterday, You struck me on my thighs several times - not just my butt. i think i need to find another Sir who understands me.' I respond: 'you have not revealed this as a limit before now. Have I not respected every limit you have stated prior to this?' The boy flushes red. 'Yes Sir... but i think it should be obvious that spanking involves my butt only. Since You don't agree, I'm afraid of what else you might do that surprises me. i wish to be released from Your service...' "
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue86

***it seems to me he had already made up his mind here - of leaving. Why it should be obvious that spanking only includes the butt is not so obvious to me...You had not disrespected any if his limits earlier, so why would You not at least listen this time also?***


Further discussion revealed that he was not unhappy with the other aspects of his service, or with Me.  And yet, even when I offered to respect this newly-divulged limit (now that I knew about it) he was still uncomfortable with My 'incompatible definition' of spanking and still wanted to be released from his contract - which, with regret, I did.

***something else is going on here - that he will not admit/reveal to You***

Has anyone else run across this - where a difference in what is 'appropriate' has resulted in a dissolution of contract?  It was extremely frustrating for Me.  I pride myself in respecting limits.  Never before have I encountered such a restrictive interpretation of spanking, nor do I particularly want to have to draw lines on a 'boy' like cuts of beef with "no strike zones" (outside of the obvious danger zones like kidneys, hands, feet, neck, head etc).    Was I that extreme?  Really?  In that instance I certainly don't think so...


***i do not think You were extreme here - of course this is impossible for us to say since we have no idea how hard You hit - but why did he not speak up during the spanking, i wonder?***



Thread hijack,
bad lil thang,
It's hard to read that blue.  Could you choose a deeper shade for us old timers with bad eyes?
thanks.
end of hijack


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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 7:00:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		spanking by numbers.. screwing by numbers... flogging by numbers.. where do i sign up?

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 7:01:45 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		One moment. Having read the other additional postings, I'm curious.

Now you claim you pride yourself on communication and talking, right? Okay, so what was your submissive being released from when it came out that you both weren't on the same page over something as simple as a spanking?

Another thing, you appear not to understand the reasons behind him seeking release, but yet you are so sure that he was to blame and it was his problem. How can you be so sure of this? Are you convinced you did everything right and couldn't have done anything differently? What makes you so sure?

In the OP there's a nice little reconstruction of the spanking and your sub wanting release. But what about before that? What went on before the spanking? What was the event which led directly to the spanking? How long did you know your submissive? How frequently was he previously spanked?

Was your partner present during any of your meetings with the submissive? What was his role? What was the relationship between your submissive and your partner? Was your submissive gay? Bi/ How do you know he wasn't for example a married straight guy pretending to be gay?

Just asking out of curiosity...

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 7:06:47 PM   
Subductrssss


Posts: 97
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline 		My thought is somewhere along the way communication was dropped and he  (the sub) does not have the commitment at this stage to put into verbalization "exactly" what he needs/wants/desires/etc.  True we were all newbies at one time and true that even after many years with the same partner there will be misdirections of communication, intent, movement but the difference in growing and having grown is learning sticktoitiveness rather than bounding around the circle like a bouncy ball.  Perhaps he just needs the wings let loose to fly to come back home or find his own comfort level?



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Subductrssss

The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
Kahlil Gibran

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RE: Beat This, not That - 10/19/2008 7:18:50 PM   
FetishRose


Posts: 212
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

spanking by numbers.. screwing by numbers... flogging by numbers.. where do i sign up?

I think at sesame street for kinksters

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