RE: Maintenance topping

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Maintenance topping

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Maintenance topping

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:16:10 PM

IntellectualPro

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Surely there must be ways of enticing you into dominant headspace, if you'll allow it.

I don't mean to make it sound manipulative. It obviously must be done with tact and within agreed boundaries.

(in reply to IntellectualPro)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:18:51 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

Akasha,

quote:

Of course any relationship requires compromise. I'm a very giving person - nurturing, affectionate, selfless when it comes to the people that I love. However, I don't fake dominance - I can't just pretend, unless it's a fairly meaningless casual relationship (even then, I can do it in very small doses), and I certainly can't reach inside and top someone lustfully because I am obligated to. In my experience, certain types of submissives don't want this either - they want the real, raw stuff.

In the context of those looking for or in long-term relationships, I think pretty much everyone (dominants and submissives) wants the "real, raw stuff". Speaking for myself, I'd be very uncomfortable if I discovered my partner felt she had to fake dominance for me. In fact, I think this would be a pretty good indicator that we needed to sit down and discuss some things.

quote:

I don't think it's unrealistic that when it comes to compromise, on the topic of "dominance," the submissive should be the one doing the compromising for the better of the relationship. Dominating out of obligation leads to burn out and resentment and ultimately ruins a relationship. If a man trusts and respects my dominant side, he understands it's better to wait and get the real stuff - it's better for both of us. Needy submissives suck the life out of me.

I only partially agree with you here. Regardless of whether we're talking about BDSM or some other aspect of a relationship, it has been my experience that the willingness to compromise is an incredibly effective relationship lubricator. At one point, I supported (and, for that matter, eroticized) the "submisives should be doing the compromise" ideology. However, there really are times when it is helpful, if not essential, that both partners share this willingness.

quote:

For a sub to get needy and push me to dominate him rather than give me the space I need makes me feel like he wants the femdom, not the woman. In a relationship, it's all or nothing - and I don't compromise on my kink, it rubs me the wrong way. I'll have sex when I am not in the mood, give a blow job when I have a headache, go run an errand as a favor if my man isn't up for it - but I won't play make believe with dominance just because he's horny for it. It defeats the purpose. I think most sub men don't want that, either.

We're in one hundred percent vis-a-vis giving people the space they need and feeling desired as a person rather than as a kinky placeholder.

Side note: you give blowjobs when you've got a headache and run errands for your man? Whoa. Proof positive that you're not only a dominant woman, but also a saint. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:26:38 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

In my situation, I did occasionally top when I had Angel, becasue he wanted it even if I wasnt in the mood. IT as so infrequent right before we split that I didnt want to give up the times it as presented. However, I was also quite happy at that point to let it fall completely by the wayside since my urges for it were getting fewer and farther between.

With Fox, I only play when I am in the mood. Luckily, that is very often so ther ehavent been any times when he has had to go without for too long. For us, sex and playtime are the same, since I do not get anything out of sex without some level of sadism in it. We do occasionally have lapses in heavier SM sessions, but there is always enough there on a regular basis to keep us both happy.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:32:41 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

My dominant style is one that is undeniable. I can't explain it, but you know it when you see it. Faking it would be like faking a raging hardon or actual ejaculation. It's not just a series of acts, it's a consuming state of mind and attitude and mannerism that I don't readily adopt or fake.

OK, A - I get that. Point fully accepted.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:32:49 PM

StrictnSaucy

Posts: 363
Joined: 1/6/2005
Status: offline

I have never topped while not in the mood - but this thread has made me realise that I am being selfish ..it is something thats been on my mind

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:50:28 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictnSaucy

I have never topped while not in the mood - but this thread has made me realise that I am being selfish ..it is something thats been on my mind

Hi Ma`am. While i agree it may appear selfish, personally i would rather be topped by someone in the mood, than going through the motions. To me, the satisfaction is knowing the Domina is enjoying herself, as much as anything else. if i needed to be topped more often, i would bring the question up though.

LTNS by the way, i hope You are doing okay.

(in reply to StrictnSaucy)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:56:27 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictnSaucy

I have never topped while not in the mood - but this thread has made me realise that I am being selfish ..it is something thats been on my mind

But don't submissive men WANT us to be 'selfish'? Wouldn't they rather have us lustful and selfish and organic about our dominance, not service topping? Don't they want the acts to be fresh, authentic, dripping with lust and need -- not manufactured?

I am a selfless *lover*. I want him to feel good. I am willing, if need be, to put aside my own pleasure because I adore him and he deserves it, and it's fun to be giving. However, with dominance, no way. I just can't swallow that. Dominance at its best is animalistic and natural, from the core. To just go through the motions ruins it. Yes or no?

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to StrictnSaucy)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 5:02:45 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

This thread made me curious enough to ask my owner his perspective. He laughed and said of course there have been times where he had to pull out some extra energy to take care of me, but that is the point. I belong to him, he wants me healthy and happy. Sometimes that requires that he set aside his wants to take care of my needs.

In response I told him how much I love him, and how lucky I am to have someone like him who is concerned enough about me to really take care of me.

He said he doesn't see it as a compromise, it is simply part of owning someone and taking care of them.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 5:08:46 PM

hopelessfool

Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Akasha,

Do you think I really WANT to be on my knees scrubbing the toilet?
You really think I WANT to cook and clean and run the house all the time?

I really dont, but I do it because I have to, its my job to please my partner.

YOU take on a sub, you take the responsibility of one. You answer the phone at 3 am because they need you, you do what it takes to keep them satisfied? Why? Would you stay with a sub if they didnt keep you happy and satisfied. Why would someone on the other side do it, simply because your you?

While I would stay with my partner while periods of play were "lacking" I wouldnt stay if he wasnt giving me what i needed, why would i stay and be miserable. Think of how youd feel if you suddenly you couldnt eat meat because of your partner or couldnt have you time or couldnt read because of them. Well we submissives tend to be submissive, and we tend to see a dom/me because we want to be dominated, it kind of Voids the point to have a dom that doesnt.. dom...

Sorry for the snark pcs frustrating the living SHIT out of me.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 9:25:39 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

darchChylde,

quote:

i suppose i should clarify... i agree, if She felt there was a need and decided to meet that need in a scene or by play; i'm ok with that. It's like has been said above, the passive-aggressive coersion is the part that bothers me.

I appreciate that you took the time to explain your thoughts. Thanks for the clarification,

Elan.

(in reply to darchChylde)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 9:30:36 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

Akasha,

quote:

AAkasha to StrictnSaucy:
But don't submissive men WANT us to be 'selfish'? Wouldn't they rather have us lustful and selfish and organic about our dominance, not service topping? Don't they want the acts to be fresh, authentic, dripping with lust and need -- not manufactured?

I'll answer this in a loaded way and hope you don't take this as a personal slight (which it isn't meant to be nor is it in any way). There is a big difference between someone who is endearingly bitchy and someone who is just a bitch. So... to answer your question, I'll say emphatically "no", this is one submissive who doesn't want a domina who is truly selfish. Now if someone is authentically dominant, dripping with lust and need, and very direct about what they want and expect, that's fine. Someone can be all of these things without being truly selfish and inflexible. You've illustrated my thoughts very well when you wrote:

quote:

I am a selfless *lover*. I want him to feel good. I am willing, if need be, to put aside my own pleasure because I adore him and he deserves it, and it's fun to be giving. However, with dominance, no way. I just can't swallow that. Dominance at its best is animalistic and natural, from the core. To just go through the motions ruins it.

To go through the motions (per a script or false sense of "I must do this to please my submissive") would ruin it - absolutely. Still, you can be animalistic, natural, and dominant to the core without being selfish. Selfishness is a huge turn-off and I find this trait unattractive in both vanilla and BDSM relationships.

The more I experience and learn from BDSM partners, the more it seems that effective, essential relationship skills are strikingly similar for dominants and submissives alike. This said, I don't expect or want perfection. For example, perhaps my domina is addicted to kissing, whipping, beating, and fucking me. Being the giving, flexible, loving, compromising submissive that I am, I'd be willing to let such an "addiction" slip by. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 9:31:39 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

camille65,

quote:

This thread made me curious enough to ask my owner his perspective. He laughed and said of course there have been times where he had to pull out some extra energy to take care of me, but that is the point. I belong to him, he wants me healthy and happy. Sometimes that requires that he set aside his wants to take care of my needs.

Your comments (and your owner's) beautifully illustrate what I've been talking about in my last few posts.

quote:

In response I told him how much I love him, and how lucky I am to have someone like him who is concerned enough about me to really take care of me. He said he doesn't see it as a compromise, it is simply part of owning someone and taking care of them.

I do so love happy endings. Thanks for sharing this.

Elan.

(in reply to camille65)

Profile

Post #: 32

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 10:21:49 PM

OneMoreWaste

Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
But don't submissive men WANT us to be 'selfish'? Wouldn't they rather have us lustful and selfish and organic about our dominance, not service topping? Don't they want the acts to be fresh, authentic, dripping with lust and need -- not manufactured?

I am a selfless *lover*. I want him to feel good. I am willing, if need be, to put aside my own pleasure because I adore him and he deserves it, and it's fun to be giving. However, with dominance, no way. I just can't swallow that. Dominance at its best is animalistic and natural, from the core. To just go through the motions ruins it. Yes or no?

Maybe I should skip this one since I've never been with a Dominant woman, but, yeah, completely. If there's no immediate desire from the Dominant's side, then you're not being a submissive, you're being a fetishist. I'd rather take care of physical scene (bondage & pain) desires myself than bother my partner with it, even knowing that she *wants* to make me happy and will do her best.

_____________________________

-and the few still remember passion over rage-

(in reply to AAkasha)

Profile

Post #: 33

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 10:22:10 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Interesting debate. I don't consider a human being's sexual and emotional needs to be completely analogous to the needs that a beloved pet has for food, exercise, and attention...but I wouldn't think much of a pet owner who only walked his/her dogs or filled the food and water dishes when she was "in the mood".

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Profile

Post #: 34

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 7:50:33 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

thetammyjo,

quote:

If I did something only to please Fox he'd know and he'd disappointed in himself for not being as good a slave as he could be. If I do something to please him because he's pleased me, he understands that is a reward or a treat and is grateful for it.

Fox and I are seemingly wired differently. Certainly, in the latter case, I enjoy receiving praise for pleasing my owner. However, in the prior case, should my owner wish to pamper me purely for my own enjoyment and equilibrium, well gee... I'm all for it! :-)

Elan.

Yeah, I'd say you are wired quite differently.

Fox needs a reason or a "because I'm the owner" statement from me to feel good about us doing the things he liked... think fetishes here really. If he thought it was only to please him, he couldn't enjoy things.

He's his own strictest disciplinarian in our dynamic.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Profile

Post #: 35

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 7:57:30 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

darchChylde,

quote:

That said, i believe that it would hurt me and i would be disappointed to find out that She had scened with me when She didn't really feel like it and/or just wasn't into it but had done it for me. i would be all the more upset, and possibly angry with myself if i were to know that it was some kind of behavior on my part that made Her feel that She had to do it.

I must be the odd submissive out here. Now indeed, if I discovered a regular, established pattern that my dominant somehow felt forced to play with me because of my behavior, I would not be happy and, like you, I'd be disappointed in myself. However, if, from time-to-time, my dominant plays with me for my own enjoyment (even if she's not in the mood), I have no problem with this. She makes the decisions. If she has decided to play, I'm not going to second guess her decision making or motives. The only time I'd be concerned is if she was feeling coerced and resentful. As I hinted at in my post to Akasha, there are times people do things exclusively for the benefit of their partner. This, in my experience, is an aspect of all long-term relationships. With both domme and submissive partners, I've played many times when I wasn't in the mood. Why? Because I knew my partner needed the play. Libidos sometimes don't sync up so I'm fine with a mixture of mutual enjoyment, give, and take.

Elan.

We do things for our partners are the time that are what they need or want but I don't see that as doing it only for their pleasure or only to maintain the relationship.

I see that as being in a human relationship.

I don't do that in terms of BDSM play or scening however where I'll certainly do that in other things such as watch a tv show that Fox wants or buy some food he likes if (and only if) I'm neutral about it to begin with.

My motivation is never to do it to keep him happy or to keep our relationship. That's how I interpreted the original question.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Profile

Post #: 36

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 8:03:01 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

Interesting debate. I don't consider a human being's sexual and emotional needs to be completely analogous to the needs that a beloved pet has for food, exercise, and attention...but I wouldn't think much of a pet owner who only walked his/her dogs or filled the food and water dishes when she was "in the mood".

I fully agree.

The sexual and emotional needs vary from one human being to another so what works for one dynamic may not work in another.

I didn't see the OP as talking about emotional needs though... only play or SM or BDSM or scene desires or needs really. The idea that you'd top someone when you didn't feel like to satisfy them.

I know, I know, I'm being very picky here about dividing up things into SM and Ds, topping vs domming, but that's how I read the OP.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Profile

Post #: 37

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 9:53:04 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued
Now indeed, if I discovered a regular, established pattern that my dominant somehow felt forced to play with me because of my behavior, I would not be happy and, like you, I'd be disappointed in myself. However, if, from time-to-time, my dominant plays with me for my own enjoyment (even if she's not in the mood), I have no problem with this.

It's hard for me to relate with this issue because it's hard for me to imagine a scenario where a domme would not be in the mood to play with me.

:p

I agree with you if such a pattern existed over a period of time. For an isolated incident, I am not sure how I would feel if I learned during the play that she was not in the mood. One instance in which I can remember reading and ascertaining an off vibe, I stopped.

I expect different parts of me might respond differently. What I know with certainty is that one part of me would appreciate the compassionate gesture. How would this response weigh against other responses, I am not sure.

All that said, I do expect an energy return which can take different forms. An attitude that said that my needs, wants, or happiness was irrelevant would be a turn-off for me in, at least, a broader relationship.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/21/2008 10:33:51 AM >

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Profile

Post #: 38

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 10:06:43 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued
this is one submissive who doesn't want a domina who is truly selfish.

I agree again. There is a balance to be had. While the selfishness might be attractive to the masochist in me, it is a turn-off to other parts of me. It figures negatively in the sum that makes a person a relationship prospect. There is a greater leeway for one who is only a play partner.

Selfishness can reflect two points: (1) confidence to demand what one desires, and (2) disregard for the wants of the other. I think the first has more universal appeal for subs and this trait can be expressed without being selfish. I think the second carries appeal for emotional masochism but has potential to conflict with other parts of the sub's sum psychology.

A single instance of selfishness is not so important unless that incident carries deeper meaning. To me what matters more is what I perceive in a general sense, and how much instances that are selfish in flavor are balanced by instances that convey compassion and a sense of value or basic respect.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Profile

Post #: 39

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/21/2008 11:29:07 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

I want a Domme to be a brutally selfish lover but a loving lover afterwards . . .

I keep coming to a similar conclusion reading these debates: D/s relationships - getting them, surviving them - seems to be so much about each individual's ability to accommodate so many basic paradoxes.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Profile

Post #: 40