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RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 8:51:15 AM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		mist:   I'm with you on this one.  She should run like the wind.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 9:39:17 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
The mirroring thing works wonders, too. I don't set out in a new exploration with a person doing it on purpose. That early on, I do it sometimes to control me - if i am so excited about someone that I am afeared of getting 'subbie fever' and running them off with hourly calls, I will use it to moniter myself.
However, the most common usage is - without malace or anger or even annoyance, if i notice that I seem to be doing most of the calling, I check that by 'mirroring'. I have had people that seemed very enthusastic about me drop away completely when I did this. And I think that's a good thing. I mean, what does that tell me, if they are just so anxious to talk to me and so glad to hear from me when I call that - if I don't call, that's the end of it? That's some useful information, right there.


I think this is terrific advice.  I find it sometimes difficult to keep myself in check from that fever also.  Hanging back isn't something I do well at all.  But it's very useful indeed. 

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 9:55:38 AM   
Cuffkinks


Posts: 1780
Joined: 5/5/2004
Status: offline 		He replies that he isnt punishing her, he doesnt want her.                                                                                               
 
So she asks for clarification of why if he doesnt want her he wants her to go down to see him. His response is that he wants to see if she is the slave she claims to be.
 
He said he doesn't want her. What more needs to be said? A sub can't make someone want them any
more than a Dom can force their submission.

He wants to see if she is the slave she claims to be? If he doesn't want her, why should he care what kind of slave she is? She has nothing to prove to this person. She should spend her time and energy elsewhere. Hopefully, she'll find the one she seeks. This one isn't it. 



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(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:05:45 AM   
VivaciousSub


Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I'm seconding this advice. I learned the hard way that when you get too involved, it can backfire.

What if she does get together with this guy? Then you're the person that tried to "keep them apart", etc. etc.

I'm not for an instant suggesting that she should, mind you - there's a lot of warning flags here, but you can't always make a person avoid bad choices. It strikes me that she's not ready to avoid this particular bad choice of her own volition - so even though you might "save" her from this mistake, are you willing to always be around to continually save her from the following ones?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Hello Misst.
Don't advise her anything, other than what you would do - don't second guess him in front of her.  Don't get 'involved'.   Why? Because no matter what you advise her, she won't accept it until she accepts that she can move on and not be dependant on him (which she is already showing signs of).
The best you can do, is be there for her at the fall out - if there is any.  Anymore than that, and you risk your friendship.
 
the.dark.


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(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:17:05 AM   
FRSguy


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		I think they both obviously jumped the shark on this one.  She seems (at least in my opinion) gotten way to emotionally involved to early on and he is suffering from premature Domiteis.  How can you really have a committed relationship with what is basically a fictional person until you have met them face-to-face? (Not meant to actually be answered, as that would be stealing the thread).  Not talking to someone for 24 hours in a LDR is punishment?  When someone says go away it means go away it doesn’t mean darken my doorstep to see if you are that naive to throw yourself at someone’s feet that you hardly even know (I kind of view that as an abuse me plea and not in a good way). It just seems to me that they are working different fantasies.  I know a lot of people would strongly disagree with my opinions here and I already understand why and all but I think for any kind of relationship of any type you should be a little bit better grounded and not have so many mistrust issues going on at the start of a relationship.  If she made a list of all the things she likes about this guy can she also list validations for her feelings and can he do the same?  I cant really say that this guy did something bad or this woman did something bad based on what you said as far as the way that I personally view things but it just seems to me like neither one of them is actually viewing the other person in a true perspective. It just all sounds desperate like throwing a bound animal in front of a wild predator and expecting it not to get killed… it could happen, it could survive, but I would rather put money on the horse races.

(in reply to mc1234)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:22:48 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds like this is only more trouble then what it's worth.   As others have pointed it sounds more Domineering then it does Dominant.  The age old confusion of what the difference is between the two as well.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:28:29 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		~Fast reply~

I find it interesting that so many here have him dubbed as the asshole. I don't see it that way. She asks him why he is punishing her by avoiding, ignoring or not communicating with her. He replies that he is not punishing her....he just doesn't want her. She continues to cling on like a parasite and push for contact in spite of that honest admission. That is creating drama where there needs not be any. Most folks would chalk it up to experience and incompatibility and just move on to the next.

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(in reply to FRSguy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:31:06 AM   
Sexycelticlady


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline 		She does not have to prove herself to him. This whole situation sounds very damaging and I think she should simply stop contacting him and heal her wounds. It didn't work. He is not the one for her.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 10:38:39 AM   
Morniel


Posts: 60
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		Unpopular as it may be, I have to agree with the person who used the term "parasite".  The guy changed his profile back.  He tried to break off contact.  He came right out and said that (for whatever reason) he doesn't want her.

She needs to wake up, get a clue, leave this guy alone, and find a guy who DOES want her.

He may be a jerk.  Most people are jerks, for at least 5 minutes of their lives, somewhere along the line.  But either way, he isn't the person for her, and she needs to let him go, re-examine her own way of doing things, and try again.

Easy to say but not so easy to do, perhaps.  However, it's a sign of maturity to take on a tough job for self improvement.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 12:24:05 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes a person wants something or someone so badly that they will cling too tightly, despite all the red flags that are so evident to everyone else.  It is sad, but unless the person is pried off forcibly or makes the decision to let go - there isn'tlikely to be anything you can say or do to change the person's mind.  That's the thing about irrational hopes.  They aren't rational.  Go figure.

I recall about a year ago how in thrall I was with this particular Daddy Dom type of guy.  We spent hours and hours talking on the phone every day for several weeks.  Then one day he was short with me on the phone, changed his profile to say he wasn't looking at all, and wanted nothing to do with anyone.  I read those words and felt as if the rug had been jerked out from under me.  I wrote to him, asking him why I had to read about that on his profile.  He called me and claimed it was everyone ELSE, not me that he didn't want anything to do with.  I apologized for jumping to conclusions.  He said I had hurt him too badly, to be forgiven.  I wished him well, said goodbye, hung up the phone, and that was that.  I really liked the guy, but if something so remarkably simple couldn't be forgiven...sheesh.  No reason to pretend that the pain in the ass woman I can be sometimes is going to go over well once we met in person.  No reason to cling to something that was obviously a one way fantasy. 

Pretty similar situations, different outcomes.  She clings to the irrational hope....I said WTF?  Hung up and moved on.  Until she's ready to let go, as I said earlier....she won't, and as the.dark said, you risk her friendship if you are too adamant in your opposition to the guy. 

(in reply to Morniel)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 2:30:52 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		You know me, I'm all about the tough love, but tough love doesn't have to be mean love.  It can just mean facing reality.  She is really into him, but he is just not into her.  He tried it, it didn't work for him, and he's moving on.  It's unfortunate for her, but also very common.  Every one of us here has been though it, more than once, so she's not alone by any means.  It's just something we all go through.

So, I leave with a toast that we did back in school:

Here's to the men that we love,
Here's to the men who love us,
But the men that we love aren't the ones who love us,
So fuck'em, and here's to us!

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(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 2:49:27 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe the guy is handling this wrong... I do believe he is, but maybe he also saw that she was clingy or unhealthy in some way and felt she wasn't what she presented herself to be when he was all gung ho.  I do believe he is scum to treat her as he is... but I also see that she is not healthy in wanting someone who handles himself wrong, isn't fully honest, is passive aggressive with her and abusive.  But she is setting herself up and to think that her trueness will change one damn thing and thinking the falseness of that new game and showing our best is real, she needs to get a grip.  Then her not being able to post about this and asking someone else to do it... whoa.. step back... she isn't acting adult here and needs to address her own issues before she brings a man into it.  They both seem off.

Although my heart breaks for that kind of situation, the simple fact is, you can't enable her and let her ask you to do for her, what she needs to do and she is imposing upon you to avoid growing up.  I would think she also has abandonment issues.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 10/22/2008 3:03:42 PM >

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 4:01:54 PM   
zach7


Posts: 45
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I don't understand? Why is she takin anything from him? She hasn't even met him in the flesh yet. She caught him lying and then he got angry and flat out told her that he didn't want her...and after all that stupid drama she still thinks it could work out between them?? At this point she should be afraid to meet him, he's a liar and has anger management problems.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 4:17:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like one of the oldest stories in kink cyberland.  She's teaching him what she will accept, expect, and deserve for herself.  If she's happy and fulfilled by this, great.

Otherwise it's just a manipulation game.  He probably was cheating around on her, but he certainly chose to do something against what was chosen before.  When confronted with facing the consequences of those actions (mistrust from her), he uses shame and guilt and fear in order to force submission and avoid any sort of actual responsibility for his actions.

It works really well as long as the sub cares what the dom thinks and believes she deserves that sort of relationship.

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(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 5:11:32 PM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer

This is really simple:

Things were great while they were exchanging messages on CM. When they started chatting,  something was said that changed his opinion of her. So .. instead of just telling her that .. he removed the line in his profile that said he was no longer looking .. because after all .. he is still looking.

He offered to meet her possibly because he does want to see if maybe his first reaction was wrong and they might get along in person. However, it does sound to me that he has figured out what buttons to push, how to get her to react in a negative way, so he can walk away knowing "it was all her fault".

She may never know what she said to cause him to lose interest, unless he grows a pair and tells her.




Well said. As for the red flags mist, do they really need to be analyzed?

I don't want you is pretty damned clear and succinct. I understand people say things in anger sometimes they don't really mean, but seems we've spent enough time afterwards to know he really did mean it.

The rest is trying to hang on and being beaten into an emotional pulp along the way - and your friend is as much to blame for that as he is. After all, she's the one making the effort to stay with someone who said, I don't want you.

Like SP said, pretty simple.

Shrug. 


(in reply to SoulPiercer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 5:35:35 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		your friend needs to get off the naivety band wagon and quit making herself appear as desperate!  first way to go about that is to dump this chump and not to forego meeting others until she has met and dated someone who makes her feel like her life is a bowl of cherries!

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 5:38:43 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation



I choose to help her because i see an earlier version of myself in her. Now without the advice and help from others i would probably still be her.



Did you listen to the advice from others, and if so, what was said that got through to you?



Yes i did, every bit. I didn't take it on board at first though. It took a lot of sinking in if i'm honest.
It was mainly some of the tougher love statements that got through and as usual off the top of my head i can't think what they were.
 
quote:

Hello Misst.
Don't advise her anything, other than what you would do - don't second guess him in front of her.  Don't get 'involved'.   Why? Because no matter what you advise her, she won't accept it until she accepts that she can move on and not be dependant on him (which she is already showing signs of).
The best you can do, is be there for her at the fall out - if there is any.  Anymore than that, and you risk your friendship.

 
I agree. I'm trying to keep it to my experience of such things but it is hard.
 
quote:

Unpopular as it may be, I have to agree with the person who used the term "parasite".  The guy changed his profile back.  He tried to break off contact.  He came right out and said that (for whatever reason) he doesn't want her.

She needs to wake up, get a clue, leave this guy alone, and find a guy who DOES want her.


I think there is an element of truth in this. However for a guy ho says i dont want you to then say he wants her to go down and prove she is the slave she says she is to her says he is still interested in her.
 



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(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 5:39:15 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Few people who ask for advice actually listen.  They will pretend to listen, then do what they want to do anyway. 
A good friend never says “I told ya so” when everything explodes, they just help pick up the pieces.

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 6:13:16 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		Imho, when a relationship is right neither the Dom/Master nor the sub/slave have to "prove" anything, especially that they are "real" (and oh, how i hate that term) -- the D/s just "is".  The wrong man isn't ever going to really see or feel my submission to him probably because it isn't there -- for him -- and as the wrong woman, i won't ever see him as my dom or master.  There are many things that a couple has to work at, but i don't believe that's one of them.

regards,
jiminie

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"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Lengthy punishment and treating like crap - 10/22/2008 6:43:00 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

~Fast reply~

I find it interesting that so many here have him dubbed as the asshole. I don't see it that way. She asks him why he is punishing her by avoiding, ignoring or not communicating with her. He replies that he is not punishing her....he just doesn't want her. She continues to cling on like a parasite and push for contact in spite of that honest admission. That is creating drama where there needs not be any. Most folks would chalk it up to experience and incompatibility and just move on to the next.


You made the point much better than I could.  She is her own worst enemy.

BadOne

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 60
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