RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness

RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 12:27:08 AM)
I realize that in a subsequent post, the OP basically said skip depression, but I'm including it in My response anyway. My first slave had severe clinical depression and would go through periods where it was so bad that he was suicidal. A couple of years after he was no longer with Me, he succeeded. Pet was bipolar. I never went through issues based on him not taking his meds. Clip has already spoken here. He does have ADHD. He has also mentioned on other threads that he also has PTSD. That comes from him being a war vet. I highly doubt anybody going to a war zone for three different tours is going to be unaffected. By listing the above, I'm saying that I qualify. I didn't have to diagnose any of them as a lay person. Each of them told Me about their conditions up front. There was no finding out later once they were collared. I'm no shrine of perfection in the disorders area Myself. I happen to have seasonal affective disorder. In the past, I've also had anxiety issues, as well as depression. (Yep, and I'm a Domme.) I think what bothers Me about this OP is the part that says when you can spot the issue, it's time to bail. I completely disagree on so many levels. For one, it isn't always the person who is affected who notices certain personality changes first. Sometimes, it is the people around someone who can spot these things before the person with the disorder. A perfect example of this is that My husband is the first person to notice when it's time for Me to start getting more sunlight. He notices the changes in Me before I do, because I'm the one experiencing them. He can see them easier, because he's on the outside looking in. The other part about that statement that bothers Me is the exact point brought up by LadyH. Would you say the same thing of a physical illness? People are no more in charge of a mental disorder than they are a physical one. This attitude is exactly why the stigma of certain disorders exists today. People don't chose to have illnesses, mental or otherwise. Would you bail on someone if, once they were collared to you, it was discovered that they had cancer, diabetes, or any other physical illness? If they had a permanent injury in some way, after they were collared to you, would you bail on them then, too? Now, I'm not saying that a person's condition gives them a free ticket and you have to put up with anything they chose to dish out. If the person you're dealing with refuses to take any action to improve or control the disorder, yes, you have every right not to be caught in the spiral with them. That's a lot different than writing someone off because they aren't the epitome of perfection in mental and physical health. From the desk of the imperfect Lady Pact, who also happens to have sleep certain sleep issues, and needs to remind her boy to use spell check.

GreeneGoddess -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 4:24:46 AM)
It would depend on a couple of things. If it's an ongoing relationship where we are committed to one another and some sort of mental disorder developed, I would be extremely supportive. I would also expect them to be proactive (with my support and help) in getting the help they needed (therapy, medication, what have you), just the same as I would if they had a physical disease. Problems can be handled if faced. Problems destroy a relationship if you run away from them. If it's a "new" relationship, I would expect that the individual is, again, being proactive in dealing with the problem. I would also expect them to be upfront with me about it (just as I would a physical problem), to allow me the decision whether or not I care to proceed. If the sub is not treating their problem and taking control of their own disease, then I would not be willing to develop a relationship with them.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 4:57:23 AM)
Interesting topic! And yes, I had a sub with a mental problem. Not really sure what it was, but it was serious!! He honestly believed that when he walked his feet didn't touch the floor. And when I commented on how dirty his shoulder looked he told me that it wasn't dirt... it was an infection leaving his body. Yeah... I told him to go take a shower. There were sooo many other things going on with him that I knew it was a lost cause. And normally I'm a champion of lost causes but this was too much. And yeah, I have to add to the question earlier about physical issues as well. I have diabetes. I'm not insulin dependent but I'm still reasonably high maintenance with the specific meds and diet and such. I can see that full disclosure of any issues, medical or mental would be absolutely necessary. *Jewel*

DavanKael -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 9:12:49 AM)
Speaking as a clinician, depression and bipolar are not personality disorders nor are they nearly as intractible as personality disorders. Also, bipolar is rather the 'flavor of the week'. These issues are often cyclical but highly manageable. Personality disorders, otoh, are generally permanent and I view treatment of these as behavioral modificaiton more than anything else but the problem is the feedback the person gets for the disorder often perpetuates it. I don't view these as 'curable' or even substantially reatable in many instances, more like manageable if there is lots of work and dedication. It is also of note that just because someone has facets of a personality disorder doesn't mean they meet the criteria for diagnosis. Borderline and narcissism strike me as no-brainers as drawn to this lifestyle as do antisocials and hystrionics. I also want to point out, lest I seem over negativisitic about prognoses here, that disgnoses aren't the be-all, end-all and that they're a language developed with which to identify and more systematically approach working on issues. Davan

JohnSteed1967 -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 9:23:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders Depression or Bipolar: Many subs/slaves have very low self esteems and feel miserable with their positions in life. While in the beginning, they promise that this melancholy is only due to the fact that they have no Domme, once they are collared, it is discovered that the condition is not situational. Borderline Personality Disorder: Borderline personality disorder is characterized by intense love/hate relationships, intense abandonment issues, sabotaging of relationships, impulse control problems, and self mutilation and other attention getting devices. This person makes comments of the following: "Now you hate me and are going to leave me! I'm sorry, but I can't promise you'll wake up without me bleeding. I need those pills! You just want to hurt me, don't you?" While the intense adoration at the beginning of the relationship is alluring, a pattern of neglect and resentment appears. A major reason people with this disorder enter this lifestyle is because they hope that if they become someone's slave, they will not be as easily dumped as they could be in a vanilla relationship. Ok I Saw this and Jumped on the topic like White on Rice! My Ex wife was Both of the above plus had OCD, Her Mom was bipolar with "trickatilamania" the desire to pull her hair out with her bare hands. Her sister had bipolar and her sisters son was bi-polar and transgender identity disorder at age 7!!!! I loved my ex wife and still love the memory of the woman that I fell in love with today. Today my exwife has lost more weight than a heroin addict, she used to be a BBW. Wears more make up than a two dollar whore, wore no make up during our marriage. and her hair is peeled almost to her scalp. What hair is left is dyed a shocking electric blue! She used to have beautiful long blonde hair. I both miss and love her, and am thankful to God that I am out of that freak show!

Steponme73 -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 9:37:24 AM)
Well let me add to the list. I have PTSD, ADD, Diabetes(not mental but a cause). I have had it since 1970. I attribute alot of it to Viet Nam, at least the PTSD and diabetes. I think I am fairly normal, I don't take drugs for mental disorders, however, I am labeled that I have mental disorders at the VA. I don't think if you met me you would ever know about any of my malladies. However, the label is still there. No, I don't think there is anyone who does not suffer at some point in time with depression, etc. So, with that said, I think we all have some issues, but most of us try hard to cope.

Honsoku -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 10:21:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders How many of you have discovered that your sub/slave has either a serious mental illness or a personality disorder? I have discovered that some of the people I have talked with have had some issue (hell, I have my own issues thank you very much). I would expect to know that before they became my submissive or slave. quote: Mental illness is not an uncommon disease in any population, but we have noticed that several disorders are very common among those identifying as submissives: snip quote: Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Narcissism is a convinction that your needs come first, that every thing a person does is done to affect you, and that you are entitled to more than others. They will only perform when it immediately gets their needs met, they focus entirely on their kinks, and they ignore your hard limits and interests. They focus on their appearance either by fishing for compliments or insulting themselves so that you have little choice but to focus on them. They tend to be passive aggressive and manipulative, topping from the bottom or outright whining to you or others that you aren't "doing it right." Actually, I would expect narcissism to be much more prominent along the dominant end of the spectrum [:D] quote: Obviously, getting a professional diagnosis is a good idea rather than slapping on labels, but honestly, when it gets bad enough that you as a lay person can identify it, it is time to bail! Keeping in mind that personality disorders are not easily treated, even with medications, have any of you successfully kept a relationship happily going with someone with a personality disorder? Apparently you don't think it is possible to keep a relationship happily going, otherwise you wouldn't be calling to immediately bail. I have done it successfully, under one condition: that the person is actively and effectively addressing the issue. If the person doesn't have it under reasonable control most of the time, or is unwilling to try to improve, it isn't going to work as they will drive me nuts (and I'm crazy enough as it is). On another note, if it is too subtle for an intelligent layperson to identify it (assuming a prudent amount of research), it probably isn't a disorder. In every case, it was obvious to me within a short period that something was awry.

Reigna -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 11:55:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Honsoku Actually, I would expect narcissism to be much more prominent along the dominant end of the spectrum [:D] As a couple of people noted upthread, narcissism is pretty much a given in this lifestyle. Your notion that dominants tend to be narcissistic is spot-on in my opinion. (No, I'm not excepting myself.) Read up on anti-narcissists and you'll pretty much have a grasp of the entire spectrum of dominants and submissives. DavanKael up there is also spot-on. You don't treat personality disorders as much as you manage them. The ability to manage them has everything to do with the ability to maintain a relationship. The question to ask is, "Can I work with this person's problems? Can he work with mine?" I'd also note that personality disorders are really normal human psychological functions that have crept across the line into dysfunction. Everyone needs a certain amount of self-regard, but narcissists overdo it. Everyone needs a certain degree of emotional lability, but borderlines overdo it. And it doesn't take 20 years of clinical practice to know when someone's crossed over into dysfunctional territory; it's easy to tell when someone's being objectionably self-involved or objectionably clingy and whiny. Depending on how severely someone's affected, it can be very helpful simply to call people on their bullshit. But there again, we're back to managing a condition, which in any case is all most people can ask or expect of themselves and others.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/25/2008 5:55:58 PM)
Borderline Personality Disorder is not curable, but managable as said previously. The medications given are more for the symptoms, such as impulse control, than to actually treat the disorder. Behavior Modification is the most likely way to get these conditions under control without just doping someone to the point they are only a shell of a person anyhow. I can see where being in a strict D/s setting could allow for the Behavior Mod needed perhaps, but i wouldn't want to be the one to take a chance with being wrong on this one, and i do this for a living. The BPD guys i work with in my professional life are facinating, and i hate it when i see anyone with an impulse issue do or say those things they know they shouldn't, then beat themselves up over it for hours or days. Working with them to develop strategies for coping that are socially acceptable is very rewarding (and of course at times frustrating). Mental Health issues on the other hand are as individual as we all are anyhow. I think to catagorically say that you would or would not be able to handle a relationship with someone with a disorder is as silly as saying you could handle any relationship with someone who did not have a diagnosable issue (ie all those darn a-holes out there who are proud of who they are). My mental health issues have been under control for so long, i did not think to mention them to my pet anymore than i think to bring them up in casual conversation. When i did make a comment he picked up on, i let him know he could use it as an out, but our relationship is based on who he has seen, not a label i have been given.

DavanKael -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/26/2008 9:07:04 AM)
Regina---- Thank you; you said something very important (Well, several things really) but one that I want to highlight: psychological disorders are generally survival traits that have (I'm going to get turbo clinical here, lol!) gone wonky, they've gone too far, they've gotten out of whack and do harm/cause problems rather than good but the basis of most psychological disorders is survival-oriented behavior/processes, imo. Davan

thetammyjo -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/26/2008 9:14:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael Regina---- Thank you; you said something very important (Well, several things really) but one that I want to highlight: psychological disorders are generally survival traits that have (I'm going to get turbo clinical here, lol!) gone wonky, they've gone too far, they've gotten out of whack and do harm/cause problems rather than good but the basis of most psychological disorders is survival-oriented behavior/processes, imo. Davan Which is what I said earlier to about Fox and I. Frankly I don't think either have ever been harmed by our alts but they have made life more complicated at times but safer too. I had to learn to be more efficient with my homework, for example, and get it done well in advance because all I knew growing up was that time just disappeared on me every now and then -- that was an alt taking over to deal with abusive situations in my family so I could focus on school. Over the years, that alt developed to deal with school learned to deal with everything and that alt is now more the real me than the original ever could be. If that freaks out folks, I'm sorry it does but it my reality and frankly I think I do damn well.

subslaveme -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (10/26/2008 3:02:40 PM)
I am a very shy person, and have depression, and have to deal with that everyday. I don't go out much, and seeking a Mistress is a very hard think to do. At this time, I don't have friends, am hoping that I find on or two on collarme, and trying to get out, and into the lifestyle is like pulling teeth. I have anxitiy, and don't talk at all in big groups. I am on meds, and take them everyday, and sometimes still get depressed. At this time I do have a learning disability, so my writing is not good. I an not saying that if I find what I am looking for will pull me out of the depression, don't think it will. It might make me work harder, and give me something to look forward to. Still have to deal with the depression, and anxitiy. I don't like putting it on my forehead, but will tell others about it, if we do start to talk about a realationship in bdsm. I feel that if they don't know, and find out later, then it will damage, any trust that we have made. I don't tell someone I just meet, becouse if they don't understand, then I feel bad, that there is something wrong with me. So anyway, what others have said, yes it is something that will not go away, but if finding good help, just seeing a doctor, or going to see a tharapsist is good, but I have had bad ones, and they can really do a number on someone. So like any kind of thing, make sure you are getting good help.

flutter17 -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/11/2008 8:14:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WidowSpiders ...Obviously, getting a professional diagnosis is a good idea rather than slapping on labels, but honestly, when it gets bad enough that you as a lay person can identify it, it is time to bail! Oh lord didnt I learn that lesson the hard way. After a stretch of going thru that with someone I cared deeply about, I finally had to give up and admit I could no longer absorb the toxicity. I can't pretend to be a mental health professional even on my best day. Some things are unmistakeable, even when I have no idea what to call it!

MissSCD -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/13/2008 8:19:02 PM)
*This is a well written article.* I suspected my slave had depression because he was not as sociable as he used to be. He was becoming more withdrawn. He always wanted to sleep a lot. He basically lost interest in his life he was living, and I no longer enjoyed being around him. I continually gnawed on him until he went to the doctor, and he discovered he was depressed along with several other things which I will not repeat here. *He is doing much better that he is on medication.* *It was easy to detect because I am bipolar. I know how my moods are. He stays down all the time.* *We are taking time off from BDSM activies until he and I feel he is ready to play again. We are still in the BDSM relationship.* *It is our responsibility to ensure the well being of our slave.* *Regards, MissSCD* quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus As a dominant with severe clinical depression, and way too much lay knowledge of medicine generally, I can say that there are many people in the scene who have mental health issues. Their orientation does not have all that much to do with it. Deciding whether to bail is a tough one. My former slave had narcissistic disorder, PTSD, delusional disorder... but those were not the things that ended our relationship. When you have made a commitment to a person, does leaving them when their illnesses flare fit with your personal ethical framework? Would you leave that person if they developed kidney failure and needed dialysis, or if they became disabled in some other way? It's incredibly difficult to maintain a relationship with someone who has a mental illness or mood disorder if that person does not want to improve their condition, or even recognize it. It's also hard to remember that a dominant is not a therapist (even if he or she IS a mental health professional!), and there is only so much "fixing" a person can do. If you google one of the disorders listed above, you can read the exact symptoms, and get some idea of the real numbers of folks who are affected---and the numbers are NOT as high as one might think! It's possible for someone to be a completely selfish and insufferable jerk WITHOUT having an official syndrome!

MistressFaye1 -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/14/2008 7:58:45 AM)
This is a very interesting thread to say the least. I've read many of the posts and have been given a different outlook on some things. I won't go into details about what is going on with me, just reading the posts have been very, very helpful. I'm a mental health professional and I guess as such, I feel the need to at least make things better and I can't. In fact, my guy told me there are some things he will not discuss with me because I can't help him or make it better, or fix it and that he will only discuss things with his therapist. Though I know I can't "fix" it. I feel I have the right to know *what's* going on and *what* triggers certain reactions. Am I wrong for wanting at least that? I find myself becoming distant, not because of the mental health issue but because I don't know what the triggers are and it makes if difficult to suggest a movie, or watch t.v. or even talk about some things. Not to mention, limiting what I do when it comes to play for fear of causing an episode or fear/anxiety. When I tried to explain how I was feeling about play he got defensive and said I insulted him and that I thought he was weak and this is far from true. It's rather hard to blindfold someone and it's ok one minute and then during another session it caused a near panic attack (he said it was because the second blindfold was darker). Any advice???? And leaving him is NOT something I will do, he means too much to me for that to happen. Ms. Faye

mummyman321 -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/14/2008 11:13:02 AM)
I saw JohnSteed1967 post and he mentioned OCD. That really got me to think for a minute. Are Fetishest a form of OCD? I love latex. I simply cannot get enough latex. I wonder if a psycologist would classify me as an OCD? I prefer to be called Kinky, but I could see someone classifying it as OCD. On a side note. If there are any Domme who have a Latex OCD please contact me immediately. I cannot cure your disorder but I can satisfy your craving for Latex?[sm=jaw.gif]

MissEnchanted -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/15/2008 6:53:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra I had a sub with BPD and NEVER again will I go through that. It was a nightmare dealing with all of his issues. ~Lashra Lashra, I can totally relate! I have a current situation that I have spent way too much time, energy, and love trying to save this slave from his own financial/emotional implosion. It landed in my lap as a "Surprise, my life is falling apart!" after 6 months of daily contact. I love him dearly however he has BiPD, PTSD, and now it looks like from tests that he also has been having tia's and has all the symptoms of early Alz onset. I knew he was PTSD from VietNam injuries and was dealing with all of that just fine, then his finances went to shit and he positively imploded. Omg, what a mess! His family has been worthless and I had a choice to jump in and fix the hell out of the situation or kick him to the curb for lying to me and hiding the truth. He was so afraid of losing me he didn't confess. This has been micro-managment hell for 3 months! He is a sweetheart though and I guess my 'Karma Cup' overfloweth. This has been heartbreaking, nerve-wracking for me and he is really scared. As soon as I have all the test results in writing his family will receive a fat package from me via snail-mail. Wake up time folks! Denial is not a river. Never again, except the need to save a sweet-sweet soul did happen this one time. I will be screening for this much more carefully in the future.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/15/2008 11:13:58 AM)
I feel for you, MissE! I was in your boat for awhile, and HE is the one who booted me, or who knows how much longer that train wreck would have gone on. I have worked since on losing my desire to "rescue", or at least stopping it before it goes too far. Truly, though, how much CAN we see at the outset? Sometimes new conditions develop, sometimes old ones rarely surface. If we were all 100% truthful about everything on the first date, I don't think anyone would ever leave their houses again!

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/15/2008 8:03:08 PM)
I'm fairly up front with subs that I begin talking to about the fact that I am high-maintenance not by choice, but due to several chronic conditions and a couple food sensitivity issues that I have to keep an eagle eye on. I take responsibility for my own body and don't eat cabbage if I know that my boy is counting on us scening at the play party tomorrow. I take responsibility for taking my own pain medication and monitoring my own energy levels. I would expect a submissive to do the same. Part of the reason I do extended conversation before any play happens is to know where mental/emotional landmines are for them.

TexasMaam -> RE: Personality Disorders and Mental Illness (11/16/2008 4:01:30 AM)
By definition, anyone involved in BDSM has a personality disorder of some sort. The trick is to select a persona whose disorder compliments your own. Two individuals whose disorders compliment each other in such a way as to meet their deepest emotional, psychological, physical and spiritual needs become a fairly healthy unit - even if they are co-enablers. Serious mental illness and clinical disorders are another matter. TexasMaam The Sadist in Me cannot be fulfilled without the masochist in 'he'.

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