Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Vanilla and D/s


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Vanilla and D/s Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 5:40:38 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
I'm reading through some posts, and heartfeltsubs posting has a certain resonating truth to it.  D/s compared to none D/s relationships.

Last night, I was asked a question by my girl.  Actually one of those great moments in life with a submissive asserts themselves in making a request.  Her request totally caught me off guard.  Anyways, I paused for a moment, while I was quickly thinking and trying to wrap my mind around everything involved.   Ironic, is that pause or hesistation can be misread as a "No" answer.  I found myself, telling her point blank, just because I pause for a moment, simply means I'm thinking.  Does not mean an automatic "No" or that it's a "Bad" thing.  Geee... I've been through this routine before.  Know this one like the back of my hand. 

This morning I was asked a couple of questions on the phone, early morning phone conversation, such as should she get another cat?  Trade in her car?  A few things like that, things again that caught me off guard.  

There's a fine line between asking for my opinion on a matter, and asking me what do actually do.

This morning I did not say yes or no to either question.  Instead, I was talking with her about finding out what the Book value of her car is and other things.   Stuff that one should take into consideration before actually doing it.   Her current car is all paid for, and getting a new car means she'll have car payments to deal with.  

I guess my point that I'm stressing here "There's a fine line between asking me for my thoughts/opinion and asking me what to actually do".   Areas of control vs. influence.   The whole authority concept.   I'm glad she used words such as "Do you think I should....."  Then again, I have gone through that before where a submissive has phrased things in manner where they appeared to be asking for my opinion when they wanted me to make the decision for them.

Since this is not a 24/7 relationship, I'm playing with some fine lines here.   I just know that I'm starting to get asked more frequently about my opinions on matters lately.   My spidey senses foresee the day when she asks me what I think about something and she will be really asking me to make a decision. 

I'm going back to something I have expressed time and time again, is to let things naturally happen and evol.  To not try to force D/s too soon.  It takes time to build trust and to get to know one another in the process.  What I'm expressing is that D/s is not handed out overnight in a relationship on a nice silver plater.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 5:41:06 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
.thedark, you also rock and thank you.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 6:54:19 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Maybe we need a flow chart... a graph perhaps... some kind of visual aid.


mmmmmmmmmm it would be rather difficult to chart snowflakes... in alot of ways... I think that is what a person would be trying to do.

I think we are better off trying to establish some core skills .... and then branch from there. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 9:17:56 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
a House of Quality would be nice :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Quality

we use it at work..with some fantasy you could use it for the subject

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 10:10:47 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Maybe we need a flow chart... a graph perhaps... some kind of visual aid.


mmmmmmmmmm it would be rather difficult to chart snowflakes... in alot of ways... I think that is what a person would be trying to do.

I think we are better off trying to establish some core skills .... and then branch from there. 


While agree that there are core skils and that is a better place to start, charting snowflakes isn't that hard, just ask a skier, there are lots of TYPES of snow...

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 10:21:49 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

a House of Quality would be nice :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Quality

we use it at work..with some fantasy you could use it for the subject


I almost fell out my chair laughing when I read "Who's your Daddy"
http://www.qfdonline.com/archives/whos-your-daddy/

found this from one of the wiki-links for the Excel templates.

Think there is a lot to be said for the meeting of another persons needs though. Sure we might not be able to Flow Chart each and every type of relationship all nice and neat.   However, if we look at things in terms of needs, expectations we have of ourself and our partners.   Lay these things out in the open with one another, it becomes easier to figure out where the strengths and weaknesses are.  If two people can realistically meet those needs, and what plans need to be made to meet those needs.   Mmmmm... very interesting stuff.  

Case in point where something from the business world can perhaps be applied down to a personal level.

I think it's great to take things from other sources and meld it into and apply it to What it is we all friggen do.   If anything this tool here, places an emphasis back onto meeting needs and the relationship itself.

Actually, this was one of the things I was talking about with my girl, wanting to make certain I knew enough about her to know if I can actually met her needs, and if I was right Dom for her.  I hate to Disillusion somebody with a rude reality later on down the road.   Just because I am a DOM does not mean I can move a mountain with a mere snap of my fingers, or that I'm all powerful and all mightly, and that I myself don't have any issues or problems.

At times knowing the needs, wants and desires of your partner, simply allows you to focus your engery on these areas and not on aspects where it's not needed.  These things vary from relationship to relationship.  Something I was trying to stress in a recent thread.

Personally, I feel if more focus was upon meeting needs and expectations.  The whole D/s issue would become a none issue itself.  Why?  Because D/s is part of the needs.

For instance If a submissive has the need to be in a one-on-one relationship with emotional involvement.  A Dom should be able to figure out quickly if they can or can not meet this need.   The downside, are the less then honest Dom/mes that lie about this, the submissive becomes emotionally involved only to discovered the Dom is married or cheating or has other sub/slaves on the side.   Some Doms enjoy getting away with this crap, and not being responsible for thier own actions.   These are the type of guys I really hate, just soon take my hand around their throat and choke the living shit out of.  They tend to rub my magic lamp of thought until a Sadist Genie appears.  I've engaged in verbal humilation at times, and it was anything but for play.  Verbal humilation involves a lot more besides name calling alone, you actually have to use a measure of truth in it for it to be effective.  At least true humiliation does.

Good god, I'm on a rant again. 

Back to meeting needs.  It's a matter of figuring out those needs, wants and desires first.  Go at it from there.  This is what good communication and the whole getting to know each other process is or should be all about.   Sure it's pretty easy to have Sex, engage in S&M and kink.   It's a whole different ball of wax when it comes to a committed D/s relationship.  There are other things besides sex and kink and bedroom D/s.    Bedroom D/s only gets you so far in an actual D/s relationship.

I think a lot of people who have never been in a D/s or M/s relationship have fantasy notions about the sex on demand, having a killer slave girl or being that killer slave girl.  It's not until they finally get into a D/s or M/s relationship for real, they are bitch smacked by the reality of the reality it's an actual relationship that takes just as much work as any other relationship.  The fantasy images they had fall to pieces overnight. 

If only they had spent more time figuring out the other needs besides, Sex and Kinks perhaps they might have been in a better reality to begin with.  Ggrrrrr.....  I'm ranting again. 

Went through the same process in the start of my Dom couple relationship, we met, we clicked and there was a chemistry between us.  We even had sex the first night too.  However, we were laying in bed together talking, figuring out that our mutual friend hooked up as a bit of practical joke.   Then setting aside the fact we both were Doms, started talking about how to make things work and what each other needed and wanted.   It was a pretty point blank conversation, with some laughter between us.  A lot of Q&A for hours on end, in between more sex.  The thing was we both felt an amazing chemistry and started to figure out how her and I would fit together.    Back to communication, needs, desires and common interests.

This was the foundation of what went down.   I think too many people try to force things into nice neat little boxes when it comes to D/s.  Listening to the fantasy notions they have in their heads compared to listening to their prospective partner at times, or partner even.

I think the skillsets involved are somewhat dependent upon the needs involved.  For instance, having a partner with ADD or ADHD requires some adjustments and skill in dealing with.  If somebody has a certain fear of something, it may require skills to help the overcome those fears or to deal with those fears.  However, take any want, need or desire and put it on the list.  For instance a Girl who wants to be a Master Pet Kitty Cat girl and have a nice pretty red cage, is probally not a good match for a Dom who is not into Animal Play and has no desire to have a cage in the house.   If the Dom is willing to meet these needs and can, that's great.   If they are not, then it's not so great.   If somebody has a lot of health problems or issues, how are medical bills to be handled?  Is the Dom able to cover health insurance for their submissive partner or not?   What about living expenses and other things?  What about children?  All kinds of things.   What if a DOM wants to have children and the submissive can not have children?   OK, I'm using things for example to illustrate a concept. 

Let's go back to D/s relationships again.  How much control or authority involved?  Checking accounts, money, income, expenses and such.  What kind of agreement that meets both sides of the D/s coin can be reached.   If a Dom insists upon TPE and the submissive is not into a TPE relationship, this area can become rather sensitive quickly.   Things like being kept naked around the house at all times.  This might not be so practical if the submissive has young kids still living at home.  Oh but wait, there must be 1001 slave contracts circulating around the internet, where this is one of the so called stereotype rules and demands out of a D/s relationship.  Crap like this sort or irks the Hell out of me, for one because it places high or unrealistic expectations on D/s and even M/s relationships.  There's nothing wrong with keeping a slave naked around the house, however, there are plenty more options to explore.  

People are not taking enough time to figure out the actually needs, wants and desires of one another, at times rushing into or trying to force or rush into things.  Often faced with bad results in the end. 

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 11:31:51 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
Michael,
 
this slave learned about non-sexual-Dominant/submissive-authority transfer/power exchange as a wee one.  she credits the "rents" with training her for Master, ingraining her with a set of "submissive skills".  they didn't call it submission, it was called obedience to the one(s) who provided for you, cared for you and called you their "own".  it wasn't a position of being cared for amidst the blissfulness of comfortable laziness...there were expectations, chores, rules, speech restrictions, corporal punishment and from time to time they would change it up.
 
e.g....this slave's clothes were not hers.  they were bought in her size and picked out for her to wear.  she was not allowed to wear black (it was deemed "inappropriate") until high school.
 
same for anything else, other than the air this slave breathed.  she "owned" nothing, but also wanted for nothing.  when this slave was old enough, a car was provided for her to drive---they also paid for the gas, registration, insurance and repairs.  it was her responsibility to make sure it had gas, oil, water and to take care to obey the laws of the road.
 
they did not teach this slave to live independently, be financially responsible or to take the initiative to be the one "in charge".  they did teach this slave to have infinite patience, to find pleasure in obedience and that service to others can be very rewarding...even without a paycheck.
 
this slave failed miserably at "vanilla"-based relationships.  perhaps it is because she wasn't taught the "skills" for it.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/30/2008 4:17:59 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


they did not teach this slave to live independently, be financially responsible or to take the initiative to be the one "in charge".  they did teach this slave to have infinite patience, to find pleasure in obedience and that service to others can be very rewarding...even without a paycheck.
 
she wasn't taught the "skills" for it.


Oh my Beth, 
I can so relate to your entire post...especially this.
 
I have spent more adulthood learning all those things I should have before I went to college and began to stumble.
 
I found this 10 things we must all figure out:  http://www.marcandangel.com/2008/03/02/10-things-we-all-must-figure-out-for-ourselves/
one day and realized how sheltered I was and how much growing up I still have to do and why I am so thankful for Sir in my life.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:26:54 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

While agree that there are core skils and that is a better place to start, charting snowflakes isn't that hard, just ask a skier, there are lots of TYPES of snow...


That's a good point... unfortunately...  most skiers will agree on the basics of the different types of snow conditions (since the condition can be objectively determined)....somehow.. I don't think we will get that much of an agreement when  talking relationships, which is something that is alot more subject than objective.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:29:22 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
lol isn't it funny that we use examples outside the lifestyle, because we can't describe the lifestyle?

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:36:28 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

lol isn't it funny that we use examples outside the lifestyle, because we can't describe the lifestyle?


*chuckles* There is something very ironic about it.  We often compare it to rather concrete things to make a point point it doesn't go so well when we try to go very far with the comparison.  I think they are useful for the point... and the snowflake analogy is a good one with regards to relatioships.  I think to a degree Micheal makes a good one with regards to snow conditions... but we can't take it to far when it becomes rather pointless.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:38:31 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
They sure are good. But it seems we have sometimes problems explaining ourselfs. Examples outside ourselfs are eassier to judge
They are effective and that counts ;)

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:41:34 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

They sure are good. But it seems we have sometimes problems explaining ourselfs. Examples outside ourselfs are eassier to judge
They are effective and that counts ;)


Think it is more of finding a common ground that others understand and using alittle of the common ground we can relate an aspect of our selves to another.  I think it can be a good for communication when  used wisely.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:43:01 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

lol isn't it funny that we use examples outside the lifestyle, because we can't describe the lifestyle?


I think it's common practice in any type of situation - "lifestyle" or not - to use analogies. It helps paint a neutral picture to reference, to help make/understand a point.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:43:16 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

They sure are good. But it seems we have sometimes problems explaining ourselfs. Examples outside ourselfs are eassier to judge
They are effective and that counts ;)


Often times analogies remove the emotional investment in an issue, allowing it to be viewed intellectually.
 
And as you may have noticed, folks are very emotionally invested in their BDSM.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:45:22 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
that is an good explaination indeed.
If some at work ruins a machine..and doesn't bother. I always ask him if it is ok..to damage his car. Mostly they kow what I mean then..lol

The risk if you get to abstract is the remark "that is something different"
(especially if they disagree) 

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/31/2008 7:46:41 AM >

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:46:51 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

They sure are good. But it seems we have sometimes problems explaining ourselfs. Examples outside ourselfs are eassier to judge
They are effective and that counts ;)


Often times analogies remove the emotional investment in an issue, allowing it to be viewed intellectually.



Jinx!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:47:53 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

allowing it to be viewed intellectually.



lol now we need intellectualls on here
(just making fun :P )

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:49:54 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

They sure are good. But it seems we have sometimes problems explaining ourselfs. Examples outside ourselfs are eassier to judge
They are effective and that counts ;)


Often times analogies remove the emotional investment in an issue, allowing it to be viewed intellectually.



Jinx!


Note to self... must push "send" more quickly.  :)
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Vanilla and D/s - 10/31/2008 7:53:03 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Note to self... must push "send" more quickly.  :)
 
John


Ooooh are we racing?? Heh...I just thought it was a case of GMTA.

But I'll let you win the next race.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 200
Page:   <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Vanilla and D/s Page: <<   < prev  8 9 [10] 11 12   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094