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RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/28/2008 11:33:23 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The Warren court "didn't break break free from the essential contraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution."

Redistributive Change
 
Constitution fundamentally flawed

K.


If the constitution was perfect, blacks would still be classed as not fully human and 90% of Americans wouldn't have the vote. The world turns and as it turns it changes.
Perfectly sensible argument, and the probably reason Obama made the statement, but I don't think you'll change Kirata's mind; I'm thinking he's already made up his mind, and is only open to information which fits within that framework.  
I don't know why he doesn't just link us to Fix news/Bill O'reilly, and let it go.    M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMaam -- 10/28/2008 11:36:42 PM >

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(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/28/2008 11:37:50 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata Someone at the Harvard Law Review once commented that two people with different views could listen to Obama speak and both come away feeling that he agreed with them.  
So it should be fairly easy to find a quote to back up your assertion, shouldn't it?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/28/2008 11:41:36 PM   
lynnlouise


Posts: 16
Joined: 10/27/2008
Status: offline 		Oh SilverMark 
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac???  Who yelled and screamed first?   Since some folks didn't listen - there's a bail out - so don't lay it in the lap of Bush or any Republican --- we had to clean up the bloody mess

Patriot Act - well --  what's your plan?  Before you knock something kindly have another plan in mind, OK?     You are aware that there are cells in the US & throughout the world plotting our death - give me your plan for our safety - I'm open to great ideas?

Obama being a boogy man ---- how many people do you know that sit in the congregation for 22 years & listen to anyone similar to Rev Wright?
How many people do you know that have known
someone like Ayers?  And the list goes on and on.  Money from Venzuela/Hugo Chavez that he supposedly returned after getting caught.  I just don't trust the man ---- way too smooth.

(in reply to lynnlouise)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 12:57:16 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I saw this headlined on Drudge

Well, you saw it linked to. The headline was not true. Drudge said, "2001 Obama: Tragedy that redistribution of wealth not pursued by Supreme Court." That is not what Obama said at all.

The tragedy in Obama's view was that the Civil Rights Movement, "became so Court-focused... that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activites on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change."

Obama does not approach redistribution of wealth as a legal issue for the Court, he approaches it as a political issue for the legislature. The flaw he perceives to exist in our Constitution is, that although it says what the Federal government and State governments cannot do, "it doesn't say what the Federal government or the State government must do on your behalf."

K.



When Obama made those comments he clearly laid out what the distinction is between him and McCain..between those people who believe in big government being better able to determine what we need than the individual themselves.  I don't believe the "Founders" could ever imagine a word like "entitlements"....they believed in freedom, and they believed in the individual.  In a weeks time we will send those that would detroy the document that has served our democracy so well back to his mansion in Chicago.  After two years of primary and general election campaigning the man is FINALLY  being vetted. 

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 2:25:42 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		No personal offense intended but that may be as weak an argument as I have yet to read.
Don't you have a People Magazine to read or something?

(in reply to lynnlouise)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 5:01:14 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

No personal offense intended but that may be as weak an argument as I have yet to read.
Don't you have a People Magazine to read or something?


Hmmm...ok...my argument, in YOUR OPINION, is weak!  Please, for the sake of anyone who is here to debate opinions, could you give us just a tiny bit more as to what goes into your opinion?  I can learn from people on both sides of the political spectrum...and appreciate constructive criticism, and don't shrink from it or take it personally.

So..whata ya got to say?  I'm all ears...(damn, why did I think of Obama when I wrote that)

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 7:13:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnlouise

Hi - traitor talk m-m-m-m-m         Maybe not responding to 9/11

the extreme muslims want us eliminated - so yeah - we better go to pakistan & afganistan and wherever they multiply and stomp them out before they stomp us out ---- or do you have a plan to do nothing  -- if so, better start learning arabic


Who are the "extreme Muslims" though? Would they be the same sort who have watched their lands and peoples being respectively exploited and suppressed for the past century or so by various powers, have become angry about it and not surprisingly decided to do what they can about it, retreating into strongly defined religion to help them in that struggle?

Your view interestingly enough of them, coincides neatly with their view of us and you have here demonstrated the very indignant thought pattern and reaction which you seem to hold as right and virtuous in us, but wrong and evil in them.

More dangerously, your view is one which taken to its conclusion would see the genocide of all Muslims (including those in the US) as a right and virtuous act. The problem with such one-sided and simplistic interpretations as you have here demonstrated, is that their perpetuation and promotion makes that prospect all the more likely. And any caution against such, still more any resitance to it, the act of a traitor.

We have a choice - behave utterly ethically, reach a fair and reasonable peace - or behave utterly unethically and bring about a situation where one side or the other is ultimately exterminated. For the moment, we have the upper hand should it come to who gets exterminated - but history shows that such advantages are not inherent or unchanging in any conflict; if we choose to go on as we are, then sooner or later there will be a price to pay if we fail to choose one conclusion or the other - it would be an understatement of the most extreme kind for me to say that I do not wish my offspring to behave like members of the Einsatzgruppen. Your view may however vary.

E



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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 12:03:27 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Isn't genocide the killing of a race of people not a religion?  This would be religicide or something.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 12:40:23 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata Someone at the Harvard Law Review once commented that two people with different views could listen to Obama speak and both come away feeling that he agreed with them. 

So it should be fairly easy to find a quote to back up your assertion, shouldn't it?

The New York Times
 
Excerpts...
 
even those close to him did not always know exactly where he stood... "He then and now is very hard to pin down," said Kenneth Mack, a classmate and now a professor at the law school, referring to the senator’s on-the-one-hand, on-the-other-hand style.
 
In a rare slip, he told The Associated Press: "I’m not interested in the suburbs. The suburbs bore me."
 
People had a way of hearing what they wanted in Mr. Obama’s words... students on each side of the debate thought he was endorsing their side. "Everyone was nodding, Oh, he agrees with me"
 
It should be fairly easy to read.
 
K.
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/29/2008 12:51:00 PM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 1:41:53 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata Someone at the Harvard Law Review once commented that two people with different views could listen to Obama speak and both come away feeling that he agreed with them. 

So it should be fairly easy to find a quote to back up your assertion, shouldn't it?

The New York Times
 
Excerpts...
 
even those close to him did not always know exactly where he stood... "He then and now is very hard to pin down," said Kenneth Mack, a classmate and now a professor at the law school, referring to the senator’s on-the-one-hand, on-the-other-hand style.
 
In a rare slip, he told The Associated Press: "I’m not interested in the suburbs. The suburbs bore me."
 
People had a way of hearing what they wanted in Mr. Obama’s words... students on each side of the debate thought he was endorsing their side. "Everyone was nodding, Oh, he agrees with me"
 
It should be fairly easy to read.
 
K.
 
 
Excellent. TY. On other political boards to which I belong,  giving links to primary sources is second nature. I don't know why there is so much resentment at doing so here, but there is.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 1:46:07 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Isn't genocide the killing of a race of people not a religion?  This would be religicide or something.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama: Breaking Free from the Constitution - 10/29/2008 11:11:33 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnlouise

Hi - traitor talk m-m-m-m-m         Maybe not responding to 9/11

the extreme muslims want us eliminated - so yeah - we better go to pakistan & afganistan and wherever they multiply and stomp them out before they stomp us out ---- or do you have a plan to do nothing  -- if so, better start learning arabic


Just out of idle curiosity, if they are multiplying in Pakistan and Afghanistan why would we need to learn Arabic?

(in reply to lynnlouise)
Profile   Post #: 52
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