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RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/28/2008 12:58:22 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
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From: Leeds, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

as soon as you ask yourself..if it is healthy or not..then I personally think..it is not healthy anymore.

I 100% disagree with this ... I think that when people *stop* questioning the "rightness" of their choices that is when it isn't healthy anymore.

Every kink/fetish/method of play I engage within has been questioned by me .. pulled apart and evaluated ... why do I/don't I want this? .. What turns me on/off about this? .. what are the benefits/risks of doing this? ... I make myself ask those things about anything BDSM related I do while it is new, and for the things that I set as (for want of a better word) hard limits I make sure that from time to time I ask myself those questions again to see if anything has changed.

I think it is far more healthy to question ourselves ...

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 61

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/28/2008 1:04:00 PM

JustDarkness

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Joined: 7/25/2008
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agree with that..as I said in the post before. (guess we were typing at the same time)
I had an other...view in mind..when I typed the post you quoted. The self reflection remarks..made me see an other side to it
But don't forget..some might not ask themselfs that question in the way..to selfreflect...but more out of worrying..

ps
disagree is always 100%

(just teasing you)

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/28/2008 1:14:52 PM >

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 62

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/28/2008 1:12:04 PM

pixidustpet

Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
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some forms of self masochism that i indulge in are neutral. some are harmful to me.

when i would cut myself to feel pain in my body rather than pain in my mind....when i would scald myself and scratch till i bled to remove memories that wouldnt go away, those are harmful. some of it has been permanent physical damage and scarring.

if i use a nipple clamp, or use a vibrator to the "pain" point, where i have to stop what i'm doing cause its crossed the line to pain from pleasure? that's just a little too much fun. and i know that.

kitten, whose opinions cover only her own experiences.

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 63

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/28/2008 1:16:11 PM

JustDarkness

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quote:

when i would cut myself to feel pain in my body rather than pain in my mind....when i would scald myself and scratch till i bled to remove memories that wouldnt go away, those are harmful. some of it has been permanent physical damage and scarring.

when you do such..are you beware of it...or just afther you did it?
( I am curious..I can understand that my questions is a little to personal)

(in reply to pixidustpet)

Post #: 64

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/29/2008 10:02:38 AM

Missokyst

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Exactly my point. Plenty of so called normal people have more socially acceptable avenues of self harm. But I can tell you from many people that I know, cutting is not out of control. There is a huge degree in self control when you practice cutting as a form of relief. I have one scar on my body, and that was put there by a surgeon. I have no scars that mar me from my own hands.
There is a huge degree of control, only instead of turning that over to someone else, it is in my hands, if and when I decide to go for it. People who do not understand tend to fear the unknown, but masochism has many forms. I see no difference by someone who takes control over their needs, over getting someone else to help them meet those needs.
Well.. one difference. Among the kinky, moaning for someone to "Hurt me", is hot. I think they are just envious they can't get that rush on their own, or take control over someone else's ability to do so.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I think the point at which anything becomes unhealthy, whether it's self-masochism, drinking, smoking, etc., is at that point at which it limits a person's capacity to make the -other- life choices that xhe wants to make.

because even then the smell clings), then smoking is sort of ruling hir life. It's keeping the person from doing what xhe wants to do, and if xhe can't -stop- smoking so xhe can make other choices, then it becomes unhealthy.

In the same way, if what a person is doing as self-masochism starts to take over hir life, and interferes with other choices like "I can't go to work today... I really need to mummify", then yeah, it probably isn't healthy. OTOH, if it's not interfering with one's capacity to live, then it may be a very -healthy- expression, and can probably provide at least -some- catharsis.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 65

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/29/2008 11:21:54 AM

Max1000

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Joined: 10/25/2008
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Well a good friend of mine ended up in therapy for three months due to theit history of self harm. So on gut instinct I'd go with unhealthy.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 66

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/29/2008 12:00:52 PM

subbisherri

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Joined: 5/28/2006
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This thread has gone off on a tangent, not necessarily a bad thing since the self-harm issue is a serious one. Missturbation, I think you may have caused a bit of the wrong impression when you mentioned "a physical masochist who self harms..."
"Harm" has a big negative connotation; not the risk of harm (a lot of sports and other activities carry risk of harm, that might be part of the attraction) but self-harm assumes the intent and desire to cause harm to oneself, regardless of motivation or pleasure derived therein. Masochism on the other hand involves (or at least is supposed to!) sexual pleasure. I don't imagine everyone who cuts themselves does it for a sexual thrill.
So maybe the tangent was caused by the focus on self-harm as opposed to self-masochism.
Now I'm sure there's a body of psychological research that proves masochists are just as emotionally damaged as "cutters" or "self-mutilators" (and if you do that sort of thing for fun, and are totally centered about it please don't take offense at the stereotyping) or wife-beaters; to that I have to say: screw them, I'm a masochist, I know what I like about it and why, and am happy and content with it.

If I may be so bold as to rewrite part of your original post:
"Do you equate a physical masochist who does self-masochism as the same as a stereotypical self-harmer?"
NO, absolutely not. Enough people have commented on this thread about why self-harm is NOT a good thing, but self-masochism can be much fun. Sure there's risk, there are lots of stories of people with injuries or even who screwed up so badly as to asphyxiate themselves (Michael Hutchens, anyone?). And for me a partner is usually, if not always, preferable since there are just too many things one CAN'T do with self-bondage and self-masochism, safety being just one concern.

That said, I LIKE to masturbate. As Woody Allen said, it IS sex with someone you love! I know I'll have an orgasm if I want, no worries about someone else's possibly clumsy technique (just my own clumsy technique) or leaving me frustrated. As a masochist my sexual feelings are enhanced by certain forms of pain, and so I sometimes do certain things to myself for just that purpose.
I don't know if "healthy" is the right word but "unhealthy" certainly is not. Risky? Not with a little bit of care and a modicum of common sense. If it's the risk that turns you on then you may be a candidate for the emergency ward, but if it's purely the sensations then there's a myriad of ways to stay safe.

My life has been pretty transient the past few years, in consequence self-masochism has become a more common occurence for me. More time with a partner would be nice, but alone has at times been a fun and satisfying substitute.

ss

Edited for crappy spelling.

< Message edited by subbisherri -- 10/29/2008 12:09:29 PM >

(in reply to Max1000)

Post #: 67

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/29/2008 1:50:41 PM

IronBear

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Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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This is indeed an interesting question. Now at this time I don't have the time to peruse the entire thread so I'm possibly repeating what someone else has said and is so .... Great minds think alike don't they?

Self Masochicm: I see this as not just self harm in the negative form as some one feeling unworthy cutting themselves, but include such areas as (for example): An uncollared masochist seeking more combat in such a group as the SCA and allowing more blows to reach the target than perhaps normally would. It can also include having a friend administer a good birching and flogging to "Aid in meditations" if any excuse was necessary. I don't class myself as a machosist and more than any other maretial aretist or boxer does but we expent good blows to land and we learn by that painfull experience. In fact we use pain as a teaching aid. When I get pissed off, I wrap my hands with hemp rope and punch a pine pole imbedded in the ground (the same pell I practice heavy sword, mace and axe work with) as a means or releasing the negative energy and the more pain after the better to heal the breaches in my psychi caused by the negativity.

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 68

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/30/2008 2:57:01 AM

pixidustpet

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Joined: 6/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

quote:

when i would cut myself to feel pain in my body rather than pain in my mind....when i would scald myself and scratch till i bled to remove memories that wouldnt go away, those are harmful. some of it has been permanent physical damage and scarring.

when you do such..are you beware of it...or just afther you did it?
( I am curious..I can understand that my questions is a little to personal)

quite honestly? it didnt register that i was injuring myelf deliberately. and i'm talking behavior that went on for decades. you know that silly movie "the secretary"? that's what brought the clue-by-four to the back of the head. and after i confessed my behavior, i was told never again to do it on no uncertain terms.

it went from scalding myself and scratching to "accidentally" nicking my legs shaving. ok, that could have been a combo of the fine motor skills deteriorating and self-harm but once we got those thought processes figured out, the behavior has severely lessened.

my male parent was abusive....then he'd tell me he loved me. so love=pain got locked together in my brain for a long time. not the good fun pain, but the non consentual type that tears you down and not builds you up after. i'm better now. not cured, but better.

kitten

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 69

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/30/2008 7:45:51 PM

beltainefaerie

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
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To me there is some difference in activity, but mostly headspace. Pain play centers me in the way self harm used to. The difference for me is mainly that I was depressed and self-loathing when I was cutting. With Master I am in a space of focusing on him and his pleasure generally, although the activities also give me immense pleasure. So for one I was focused on either hurting myself, because I felt I deserved it or on using physical pain to make some sense of the emotional chaos I was experiencing. For the other, I am focusing on giving and recieving pleasure or taking pride in well-done service. Occasionally I used to flog myself and it was neither. It was really just rather meditative rather than painful or self-injurious. So overall, I would say that for some self inflicted pain can be helpful in the same way that BDSM is, but it has to do with headspace and intent.

< Message edited by beltainefaerie -- 10/30/2008 7:47:48 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 70

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/30/2008 9:07:04 PM

proudsub

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From: Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There are some really vile and disgusting things some women do. Any woman who would be sick enough that when she is alone and in the dark to put clothespins on her cunt and clit, clamp them down on her tongue and nipples, who would rape her ass with a dildo, shove an inflatible ball gag into her mouth and god knows what other fucked up obscene stuff just for foreplay is exactly the sort I that drives me insane with lust.

I am going to have to add all that to my application form because any woman who wouldn't, well why bother?

Dang Michael, if i weren't married--well who knows.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 71

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/31/2008 6:53:43 AM

shivermetimbers

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Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

So my questions are do you equate a physical masochist who self harms as the same as a stereo typical self harmer?
Can self masochism be healthy?
If so why / If not why?
Anyone any experience of self masochism, not stereo typical self harm?

Some things I won't do to myself, such as cutting or fire play. But when I don't have my love with me, I know I enjoy a few things to cause self pain. What's interesting is that I enjoy doing those things.....but it is on a third level of enjoyment. The first level is of course when she is doing them to me. The second level is when I do them on cam while she watches. I also can't bring the same intensity of pain that she can give or when she watches. I don't consider anything I do to myself as "harm" because it's nothing that I wouldn't love having her do to me anyhow, and even more so. I'm still sore after a little cam show I put on the other night. Thanks to the internet, I am enjoying the memory of that time with her. I guess you can say that any pain I cause myself, it is in one form or fashion, with us in mind. I think that's very healthy indeed.

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(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 72

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/31/2008 7:36:13 AM

JustDarkness

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thank you for explaining
I am glad you are in control now

(in reply to pixidustpet)

Post #: 73

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 10/31/2008 7:39:07 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There are some really vile and disgusting things some women do. Any woman who would be sick enough that when she is alone and in the dark to put clothespins on her cunt and clit, clamp them down on her tongue and nipples, who would rape her ass with a dildo, shove an inflatible ball gag into her mouth and god knows what other fucked up obscene stuff just for foreplay is exactly the sort I that drives me insane with lust.

I am going to have to add all that to my application form because any woman who wouldn't, well why bother?

Dang Michael, if i weren't married--well who knows.

I can't help but wonder if he is sharing alittle of BSB in a covert manner *G*

_____________________________

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 74

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 12:38:36 PM

SubbieLilPetGirl

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Unfortunately I am a cutter. Whenever I am not involved with someone it gets worse. Whenever I cannot afford a new piercing or tattoo it gets even worse. I don't want to be a cutter. Most women outgrow it in their teen years. I have been a cutter since I was 12 years old. and now am 28. Please don't recommend therapy because it doesn't work. I take medication as well. The only thing that works is a sadist.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 75

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 12:47:36 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
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From: Leeds, UK
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Sweetheart .. That may very well be the case for you .. but a great many people who self harm have been helped by therapy .. and I am sure you wouldn't deny them the opportunity to try?

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veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to SubbieLilPetGirl)

Post #: 76

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 2:20:01 PM

IvyMorgan

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From: Midlands, UK
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Okay, I'm currently surrounded by people who have self harmed for well over a decade. Some are in their 40s and have been going at the SH for 3 decades.

They're all being helped by therapy.

Maybe you've not found the right therapy yet, you're still dealing with the symptoms and not the cause, if only a sadist can cure you.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 77

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 2:36:28 PM

RainydayNE

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therapy works for some and doesn't work for others.
i always found therapists to be the most horribly patronizing people in the world.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 78

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 2:38:27 PM

teensub

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I agree with the above comment, the therapist i have had dealings with were very patronizing, and i felt more angry on leaving than i did going in.

However, i do think that there are probably good ones out there, but my previous experiences of them has put me of going to another.

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L.pickle

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Post #: 79

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? - 11/2/2008 2:39:11 PM

IvyMorgan

Posts: 729
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From: Midlands, UK
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I've met a few good therapists, but, broadly would agree with you.

Fortunatly, clients tend not to come in the same flavour.

(in reply to RainydayNE)

Post #: 80

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