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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 7:52:23 PM   
bestbabync


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Status: offline 		servantheart,
thank you for your wonderful story!
i found myself in the same position when i was 17 years old.  many encouraged me to terminate the pregnancy in order to save my future for myself.  it occurred to me how selfish i was being even considering abortion. 

now she is 29, my joy & delight and the mother of 3 beautiful children that love me unconditionally!

thank God i have her in my life!

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 7:56:05 PM   
giveeverything


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

servantheart,
thank you for your wonderful story!
i found myself in the same position when i was 17 years old.  many encouraged me to terminate the pregnancy in order to save my future for myself.  it occurred to me how selfish i was being even considering abortion. 

now she is 29, my joy & delight and the mother of 3 beautiful children that love me unconditionally!

thank God i have her in my life!
This IS the point!  people should do what is best for them.  Other people should not force their ideas onto them.  It seems like we agree.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:16:51 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is intentional, therefore it is malicious.

An act is not "malicious" simply because it is intentional.
 
K.
 
 
 

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:24:19 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is intentional, therefore it is malicious.

An act is not "malicious" simply because it is intentional.

Intentionally doing harm to another human being is malicious per se.


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:25:58 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
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Status: offline 		This is what I believe and yes I am pro-choice. However I do not think abortion should be used as birth control nor for gender selection. What a woman does with her own body is her choice and since that fetus is inside her body it is a part of her. If she does not want to give birth to it so be it. No person, government, religion (whatever have you) has the right to tell her she must give birth to something she does not want. She has FREE WILL and rights to do with her own body as she see's fit.

~Lashra




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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:29:42 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Sure you have. And pretty shitty isn't exactly how I  bet many who did would describe it. No actually whats pretty shitty is all the children who were tortured, and beaten and raped who are now DEAD.


I'm not sure what the hell childrens home you worked at, but the ones I lived in had DCFS and YOS constantly swarming in and out of the place. The suckiness was in the general hopeless atmosphere of the area. Though I do remember one time this chick left her kid with a bunch of drug dealers on the corner so she could go flirt with one of them, and then called the cops when she couldn't find the kid. I guess you think that kid should have been aborted too, eh?

The worst that happened to me was a fist fight and poor nutrition. And the places I was were for 12-17 year olds, the ones who will never, ever get adopted and will live in that system for the rest of their childhood. I got lucky because I only spent 9 months in that system, but the things you describe are anomalies. They are the one in a thousand scenarios that the media focuses on to sell newspapers.

Hell, the place I stayed at in DesPlaines was nicer than my mom's house. Better food, too.


 Really , how interesting... Des Plain IL?? and now your in Australia?  I worked in Des Plain IL when you would have been in a childrens home and there were never DCFS "swarming" in  and out of any of the homes unless there were serious problems. In a perfect world maybe. There just are too few case workers (30 plus children per social or case worker) and too many children and not enough hours in the day.  And your 24yrs old now right?  Elisabella I'm fairly certain that your full of it and so I've no further need to waste time on your skewed version of reality.




< Message edited by scarlethiney -- 10/27/2008 8:31:07 PM >

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:32:48 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Intentionally doing harm to another human being is malicious per se.

Doing harm is not the same as wishing harm. The decision to abort does not arise from a woman's wish to harm her fetus. There is no maliciousness in it.
 
K.
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/27/2008 8:33:37 PM >

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:36:20 PM   
giveeverything


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It is intentional, therefore it is malicious.

An act is not "malicious" simply because it is intentional.

Intentionally doing harm to another human being is malicious per se.

celticlord I dare say that you are attempting to use reason for your emotional argument.  It's less disengenuous to just say that you oppose it for emotional reasons.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:37:54 PM   
giveeverything


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Sure you have. And pretty shitty isn't exactly how I  bet many who did would describe it. No actually whats pretty shitty is all the children who were tortured, and beaten and raped who are now DEAD.


I'm not sure what the hell childrens home you worked at, but the ones I lived in had DCFS and YOS constantly swarming in and out of the place. The suckiness was in the general hopeless atmosphere of the area. Though I do remember one time this chick left her kid with a bunch of drug dealers on the corner so she could go flirt with one of them, and then called the cops when she couldn't find the kid. I guess you think that kid should have been aborted too, eh?

The worst that happened to me was a fist fight and poor nutrition. And the places I was were for 12-17 year olds, the ones who will never, ever get adopted and will live in that system for the rest of their childhood. I got lucky because I only spent 9 months in that system, but the things you describe are anomalies. They are the one in a thousand scenarios that the media focuses on to sell newspapers.

Hell, the place I stayed at in DesPlaines was nicer than my mom's house. Better food, too.


 Really , how interesting... Des Plain IL?? and now your in Australia?  I worked in Des Plain IL when you would have been in a childrens home and there were never DCFS "swarming" in  and out of any of the homes unless there were serious problems. In a perfect world maybe. There just are too few case workers (30 plus children per social or case worker) and too many children and not enough hours in the day.  And your 24yrs old now right?  Elisabella I'm fairly certain that your full of it and so I've no further need to waste time on your skewed version of reality.



I'm a social worker (not for dcfs or any other state agency but I do know how the system works) and I would say that it's a fantasy world where DCFS or anyone else is swarming any place. 

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:38:25 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 7:52:23 PM
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bestbabync
Corrupted



Posts: 653
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline servantheart,
thank you for your wonderful story!
i found myself in the same position when i was 17 years old. many encouraged me to terminate the pregnancy in order to save my future for myself. it
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Intentionally doing harm to another human being is malicious per se.

Doing harm is not the same as wishing harm. The decision to abort does not arise from a woman's wish to harm her fetus. There is no maliciousness in it.
 
K.
 
 


Exactly


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:39:25 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

celticlord I dare say that you are attempting to use reason for your emotional argument. It's less disengenuous to just say that you oppose it for emotional reasons.

I oppose abortion because it is wrong.  That is the only reason that is required.


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:42:19 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Sure you have. And pretty shitty isn't exactly how I  bet many who did would describe it. No actually whats pretty shitty is all the children who were tortured, and beaten and raped who are now DEAD.


I'm not sure what the hell childrens home you worked at, but the ones I lived in had DCFS and YOS constantly swarming in and out of the place. The suckiness was in the general hopeless atmosphere of the area. Though I do remember one time this chick left her kid with a bunch of drug dealers on the corner so she could go flirt with one of them, and then called the cops when she couldn't find the kid. I guess you think that kid should have been aborted too, eh?

The worst that happened to me was a fist fight and poor nutrition. And the places I was were for 12-17 year olds, the ones who will never, ever get adopted and will live in that system for the rest of their childhood. I got lucky because I only spent 9 months in that system, but the things you describe are anomalies. They are the one in a thousand scenarios that the media focuses on to sell newspapers.

Hell, the place I stayed at in DesPlaines was nicer than my mom's house. Better food, too.


 Really , how interesting... Des Plain IL?? and now your in Australia?  I worked in Des Plain IL when you would have been in a childrens home and there were never DCFS "swarming" in  and out of any of the homes unless there were serious problems. In a perfect world maybe. There just are too few case workers (30 plus children per social or case worker) and too many children and not enough hours in the day.  And your 24yrs old now right?  Elisabella I'm fairly certain that your full of it and so I've no further need to waste time on your skewed version of reality.





Yup. You probably know the one I was in then. It was a 2 story house that had girls from around 13-17. I was there in 2001, I don't remember when exactly but it was early in the year. January, Feb or so. It was a transitory home so I probably only stayed for a few months. Every girl there had either a DCFS or YOS caseworker that frequenetly visited. My YOS chick was named Maria, she was this cute kinda dykey looking chick in her late 20's with short hair. She was awesome.

If you're from the area, you might also know the other place I stayed in, Nana's House on 15th and Pulaski in the city. After outstaying my 4 month limit there (damn transitional homes) I went to a TLP on Kedzie and Ogden that eventually kicked me out for being a self harmer. Fortunately my father took me in then because my caseworker said I would have to go to a residential place.

I am not full of it. If you were working for that system when I was there you'll likely know some of those places. And if you worked at the same DesPlaines place I stayed in, I'm the gothy chick who got her coat stolen out of storage and flirted with the guy at the video store when we went out on video runs every Tuesday.

Also seeing as how I was in that area in that time, were you talking about Maryville in your previous post?

Edited because I put the wrong year in the post. The more that I think about this the more comes back so it's less of a blur. Is that a good thing?

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 10/27/2008 9:00:45 PM >

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:42:44 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I oppose abortion because it is wrong.

You oppose abortion because you believe it is wrong. Your privilege. The rest is bullshit.
 
K.
 
 
 

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:43:59 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Doing harm is not the same as wishing harm. The decision to abort does not arise from a woman's wish to harm her fetus. There is no maliciousness in it.

The desire to terminate human life via abortion is a desire to inflict harm on said human.  Such a desire is the definition of malice.

Abortion is a premeditated killing.  It fits the legal requirements for murder, including the malice aforethought.


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 8:46:14 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

You oppose abortion because you believe it is wrong. Your privilege. The rest is bullshit.

OMG, Kirata and I agree on something.... did Satan just put on his long underwear?

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 9:03:04 PM   
BlackPhx


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Status: offline 		Actually GT until it is born it is parasitic. A Fetus will extract every vitamin, nutrient and hydration from a mother who is undergoing malnutrition. This is a parasitical action, a parasite gives nothing back to the host whereas a symbiont does. It however does not do this with any mental cognition or determination, nor is it malicious in it's actions. Then again, neither are most parasites.

You are correct however without herculean medical aid and usually even with it, a fetus cannot survive outside the womb/body. The youngest still surviving preemie was born at 21 weeks, 6 days.She was given 0% chance of survival and it took massive amounts of medical care to help her do so. Her parents still have a  $40,000.00 medical bill for her birth and care AFTER Insurance paid. http://growingyourbaby.com/2007/07/14/update-youngest-preemie-ever-thriving-and-growing/ 21 weeks is in the second trimester, and at that stage they are considered a foetus from the 7th or 8th week, prior to that from the 2nd week after fertilization to the 7th week, they are considered an embryo and it is at this stage that the majority of abortions and miscarriages occur.

You are right however GT. The opposite of Love is not Hate, it is Apathy, The opposite of Pro-Life is not Pro-Death, it is Pro-Choice.

This part is not directed at GT

It is a hard choice to make, and one that is infinitely personal. It's nice to say go ahead and have the Um, but, there are an awful lot of men who say they aren't being asked, but at the same time ain't stepping up and helping to support and raise that Um. Half the time it takes a whole lot of money from the state (your taxes) to track em, run a DNA Paternity test and then get a order of child support levied and collected these days. IF you can find 'em..

It was an extremely Long, Hard road to Roe V Wade, and a very expensive one not just in money but in lives. Lives lost in back alleys, in desperate chemical concoctions and in infants left in garbage cans, birthed in toilets and left to die by children and women who had no other recourse after being turned out of their homes and swelling welfare rolls.

If abortion, contraceptives, morning after pills, are not for someone, that is their choice. But as I don't inflict my choice on them, they need not inflict it on me, and that INCLUDES in exercising the choice the Government has given us a chance to have. Just because the choice is there, does not mean that YOU (Pro-Life)  have to take advantage of it, that is the wonderful thing about choice.. You get to exercise it..use it..or not. Your Choice.

poenkitten




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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 9:11:38 PM   
faithbunny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Sure you have. And pretty shitty isn't exactly how I  bet many who did would describe it. No actually whats pretty shitty is all the children who were tortured, and beaten and raped who are now DEAD.


The worst that happened to me was a fist fight and poor nutrition. And the places I was were for 12-17 year olds, the ones who will never, ever get adopted and will live in that system for the rest of their childhood. I got lucky because I only spent 9 months in that system, but the things you describe are anomalies. They are the one in a thousand scenarios that the media focuses on to sell newspapers.


No, they're not anomalies. I grew up just outside DC in a bad neighborhood, and I knew several guys, including my ex, who went into foster care or group homes. Not one of them escaped unscathed. My ex was raped at the age of 12. You said it: you got lucky.

~faith

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 9:12:46 PM   
Roselaure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

OMG, Kirata and I agree on something.... did Satan just put on his long underwear?


Yes he did.  It has little puppies on it.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 9:23:41 PM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

People jump on the abortion bandwagon for political reasons - they don't typically give a flying duck's fuck about it, and their moral indignation is usually faked. Abortion is a handy tool for monopolising all sorts of anti-progressive segments of society: same with creationism and any other 'important issue' that the right likes to bandy about to make their point.  
You forgot the other wedge (non) issue:  the homos.



And what about them?????


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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/27/2008 9:24:27 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The desire to terminate human life via abortion is a desire to inflict harm on said human. Such a desire is the definition of malice.

Your ugly accusations and judgmental pronouncements have absolutely no connection with reality, which ought to remind you of the definition of something else.
 
Abortion has nothing to do with a woman's "desire to inflict harm" on the fetus within her. Typically it is emotionally traumatic precisely because she has no feeling of malice whatsoever toward the fetus or any desire to cause it harm, but is making the decision for other reasons.
 
K.
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/27/2008 9:28:18 PM >

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